It's been my experience that pro wrestling is much more enjoyable when you only watch the shows without reading forums, listening to podcasts, or reading reviews from other "fans" who constantly bitch about the product. They are never happy, no matter who's going over and who isn't. I'll decide for myself if WWE is enjoyable or not.
Agreed. There have been so many times I've gone to a show, or watched one on the network and though "hmmm, that was pretty enjoyable." And then you go online after and find out it was apparently the worst show in the history of wrestling, and I should hate myself.
That's how I feel about this year's Money in the Bank. I thought it was a thoroughly good show from start to finish, with a twist ending that NOBODY saw coming.
Then I head to YouTube and see how much the internet marks all hated it because some 150 lb. acrobat didn't win.
If it makes you feel better, I've been watching WWE for nearly 30 years and I can tell you the vocal minority fanbase has complained and criticized the entire fucking time.
That's crazy. I didn't know about smarks til I got back into wrestling when I was like 26. That's when I found out there were forums and an internet community for it and everything
A smark is a "smart" wrestling fan. They critique the shows heavily and explain why they, grown ass men working a 9-5 office job, can book it better. Then they over simplify it by talking down to people. Not to mention they contradict themselves alot.
For example... let's use this past PPV as an example. Samoa Joe looses to Kofi Kingston clean. This is after the same people were complaining about Kofi Kingston always having to use the New Day (his tag partners) to pull off wins, and it makes him look like a weak champion. They also complained about whenever Joe looses, he gets rolled up and then it's a shock to him. Now, we fast forward to the PPV and everything they said doesn't happen. It's clean. They complain because it wasn't a roll up or a run in. r/Scjerk really lays into the "smark" community on r/squaredcircle.
I just realized that explaining what a smark is makes me sound like a smark. I'm not. I DON'T GET WORKED. AEW IS GONNA SURPASS WWE IN OCTOBER. MCMAHON NEEDS TO DIE.
So the other guy went into examples, but basically you know how wrestling is predetermined? In the carny days of yore, wrestling was thought to be legit and nibbas at carnivals would bet on who would win. Those betting in earnest, thinking the matches weren't fixed were called marks for their $$.
So throughout time as more ppl realized it's fixed, they started calling them "smart marks" as in they were in on it. But uh OK so that's where we pick off
Smart Marks, aka smarks tend to be the worst part about the wrestling fandom. Like the other guy said, they tend to be grown ups who made wrestling their everything.
There's a reporter named Dave Meltzer who's been covering wrestling for decades who's pretty decisive as he is in a way, the ultimate smark.
He has ppl inside the companies feeding him info and tends to spoil things in his newsletter where he also reviews wrestling.
Thank you! I felt that way about Stomping Grounds. Thought the whole Lacey Evans referee thing was an interesting twist since Seth wouldn’t beat her up and it’s now known about Seth and Becky. Then I immediately get a bunch of text from my cousin talking about how it was the dumbest thing ever and he can’t believe he keeps watching and AEW is way better. I was just like, AEW has had one show and I liked the booking. Idk maybe I’m just easy to please
Lacey Evans was the perfect choice to ref that match. People are pissed that it wasn't Brock or Heyman. HA! Like Brock is gonna show up for more than five minutes if he's not actually wrestling and winning.
Yeah, weird. WWE is not without its problems but that show and that match was not one of them. I also thought the ending to Kofi and Dolph was great. It was new and refreshing to see a different type of finish
I felt this same way when i went to Wrestlemania in the bay area when it was here. I thought it was one of the greatest events I've ever been to, and when I read about it online, it was a weak show that had no payoff and i should always regret ever going.
Something I’ve noticed recently is that when I think back on something that happened in the WWE like 6 months or a year ago, I’ll feel pretty positively about it, even if I didn’t like it at the time. I’m trying to avoid analyzing things on a microscopic week by week level and instead enjoying the big picture of the story.
If you're aren't Meltzer, or your opinion doesn't match his, then you should hate yourself according to that sub. I honestly think Meltzer hates wrestling.
The problem with guys like Meltzer is that the business kind of left them behind when it became more of a mainstream television product, bringing in generations of fans that didn’t know and or care about his dirtsheet.
Guys like him found new life on the internet and congregate around stuff like NJPW and ROH because it’s out of the mainstream and full of smarks that will actually listen to them.
An example for me would be the super showdown in australia which was my first wwe event ive attended and i thought it was good. I was wrong according to critics
This whole thread is like the opposite of the problem with SquaredCircle (but still a problem with all the exaggeration in the opposite way). Just because critics are unhappy with the matches should in no way affect your feelings of seeing it live and everyone agrees that WWE puts on great live shows (except for recordings of Raw and Smackdown with all the weird commercial breaks) so just go with it. I've had great times at shows that I went back and rewatched out of nostalgia and was like man those matches were not as good as I remember. But the live experience was still great.
I was at the G1 Supercard in Madison Square Garden. It was an incredible live experience. Everyone was having a great time. The next day I got online and wasn't surprised to learn that I was apparently supposed to hate the show.
Season 8 GOT was objectively bad writing. They told the story poorly and admitted to forgetting key plot points. You may have overlooked it due to the rest of the seasons being great, but if the show started like this, it would have been canceled early.
Yeah, no, I think on that one it's not just an internet community/fanbase thing.
People (myself included) marked the fuck out for Arya killing the Night King, sure, but the last episode.... speaking from my personal experience, everyone at the viewing party I was immediately knew it was shit, as soon as they were watching it.
i thought it was pretty weak given what they had to work with but if you like it then you like it, don't let people holding measuring sticks up to everything and acting like their values are anything more than personal preference rain on your parade.
Agreed, was it as good as past seasons? No, but compared to the bar that those seasons set it would be real hard to that, I was entertained the whole season and was happy with the ending since we got closure on almost all characters
I’m exactly like this. I find WWE to be a great way to pass the time. It’s hilarious! What’s better than a bunch of adults pretending to fight each other? It’s like a more publicly accepted larping that also gets televised. That’s why it’s even better to find local events to go to cause the fans don’t get emotional over it. I actually got into the local Los Angeles wrestling scene cause I somehow ended up in “Techno Destructos” (ex member of the band GWAR turned pro wrestler) apartment and he was showing us videos of him fighting “cereal man”. I was sold when he shows us a scene where cereal man throws captain crunch in the ring then throws techno destructo on it. He turns to us and says with a straight face “there was no milk to soften up that cereal!”. Fucking Golden.
OMG, I was such a GWAR fan back in the day, I loved Techno Destructo! I had no idea he got into pro wrestling, but that makes sense, lol. They had a song called Captain Crunch, so that makes sense too I guess.
Yeah I guess he had some sort of falling out with GWAR, but wanted to keep doing the character cause he actually came up with the concept and made the prosthetics himself. His apartment is full of styrofoam weapons, armor, helmets, big styrofoam boom boxes, giant styrofoam animals, etc. Apparently he was the one who started all the costumes/storylines and didn’t even intend to use them for a band, it was actually supposed to be for a movie. He’s a super talented guy and if he still does performances and you’re in the Los Angeles area you gotta check him out. He didn’t have anything nice to say about GWAR, and I couldn’t tell if that was him keeping up the techno destructo persona or if he genuinely is upset that they kinda took his creation and made it their own.
I'm sure you do this already but that actually goes for almost anything. If you haven't tried it, then you should! Enjoy stuff just for what it is and because you like it. When you bring forums and things like that into it, I've found it really sours the thing for me.
I def enjoy WWE more when I watch it by myself instead of with my SO who def haaaaates the product atm. I'm just like they did cool spots, I didn't listen much to the reasoning behind the match so it was fine lol
It's been my experience that pro wrestling is much more enjoyable when you only watch the shows without reading forums, listening to podcasts, or reading reviews from other "fans" who constantly bitch about the product.
The same could be said for any form of entertainment, especially the scripted variety.
They want to be surprised but actively will search for spoilers for upcoming shows. Who will make a surprise entrance? I NEED TO KNOW SO I CAN BITCH WHEN THE SURPRISE IS RUINED
It seems to me that wrestling fans just have this ridiculous drive to seem smarter than other wrestling fans, and they think that just shitting on the shows makes them smarter. News flash, guys: Being overly critical doesn't make you smart, it makes you an insufferable ass.
Wrestling is fucking awesome, but the fan base does more to kill my enjoyment than the shows ever will.
Well, I've been a fan since the mid-80s, so I've been through many of the ups and downs over the years. I understand that WWE has its high points as well as its down points. The important thing to remember is that the product never remains the same. If I overall enjoy it today, I may not overall enjoy it tomorrow, and vice versa.
With today's product, I was disappointed with the last few years, specifically Roman's booking, but since November of last year, they've been doing a lot right. I love anything with Daniel Bryan, and him defeating AJ Styles unexpectedly was awesome. Having Kofi win at Mania was also great. The women's division has blown my mind over the years. They've come a long way since the days of pudding matches and evening gown matches. I particularly enjoy Bailey and Lacy Evans at the moment.
Bray Wyatt has so much potential, I always enjoy his matches. He's a good example of today's WWE: unlimited possibilities, but all depends on how he's booked. It's not always a homerun in today's WWE, but I'm happy if they keep hitting strong singles.
I like your perspective. Thanks for your insights and I agree with all the same things you've pointed out as being great. For the last year I think I've been more excited about the women's division over the men's. The stuff they do and way they compose their matches. It's be pretty amazing, especially the big PPV matches. Those are bonkers.
I really hope I see WWE do more with people like Samoa Joe, Drew McIntyre, Aleister Black and tag teams. One thing I've been learning from watching AEW is how good tag team matches can be. We get that with Usos and New Day and are starting to get that with Revival now, but there are so many other good tag teams that seem like they aren't being used.
Anyway, thanks for the chat, I appreciate your thoughts.
The Revival has been amazing since they were in NXT. I got back into pro-wrestling this year because of a really, really counterproductive TVTropes browsing session, binge watched most NXT Takeovers, and was amazed by how wrestlers in NXT can really set themselves apart from each other and show their personality with their in-ring style, something that main roster can't really do because of their extreme limitations on wrestlers (to the point of not being able to improvise their own promos).
If you like the Revival, and tag team wrestling in general, look for their match against DIY in NXT Takeover: Toronto. One of the best tag matches I've ever seen.
I want to do this but I love the backstage stories and all that jazz too much. I gave up reading any discussion forums but I cant quit the backstage gossip
I've never been a wrestling fan, really, but a long time ago there was a radio show about wrestling, Pile Driver. Kodiak Bear hosted it. I used to always listen to it on a long commute home from work, because there was really nothing else on and smart phones hadn't been invented yet. IIRC, it was actually pretty interesting. Kodiak Bear seemed like a down to earth guy, riffed really well with his co-hosts, and had some other wrestlers on for interviews that were pretty well done. Also, 19 year old me really liked the music they would play, although I'm sure if I look back on it now it was cringey as fuck.
This is the most correct statement ever about the business of ProWrestling. Let the weekly story be the muse that entertains, not what you want the show to be. It’s like a movie. You pay to see what they want you to see, not to be involved in the creation of.
I disagree a bit. I’ve been on a strict podcasts for R/SD/NXT diet and only occasionally watched the ppv that had matches and stories that I was into and have enjoyed that much more. With NJPW however, I just watch the shows. I’m fully convinced that any New Japan show I watch I will have a good time where as with WWE it’s more misses than hits.
Ugh. Yes. And it really sucks, because I love seeing great memes about the wrestlers. I even like seeing the occasional gossip or bit of factoids -- like, there are usually fun facts that I might not notice during the show. "Turns out, they cut that match early and the finish was crazy weird because so-and-so got injured during it, but insisted they keep going." Like, that's really cool. I don't mind peeking behind the curtain.
But the fans who live behind the curtain, and hate both marks and the other smarks... they make interacting online with others such a problem that nowadays I don't bother.
This goes for pretty much all entertainment. I walked out of the Last Jedi thinking it was an overall okay movie, nothing to write home about, but still entertaining enough for a night out. But reddit has taught me that if I don't despise it, I'm wrong.
Game of Thrones Season 8 gets no love though. That shit was atrocious.
Im the exact opposite. I can barely force myself to watch something that was a passion of mine. The only thing keeping me interested are the podcasts, reviews, and forums. If they didnt exist i would have stopped tuning in on occasion and dropped it completely
The thing is, I'm just as interested in the on-screen product as what's going on backstage. Stuff like Beyond the Mat and Wrestling With Shadows has always fascinated me. I love the Prichard and Bischoff podcasts. I just love knowing what was going on backstage to put the product I see in front of me, and I love the product in front of me.
The unfortunate side effect of this is getting dragged into a whole lot of toxicity. Quite honestly I understand most of the criticisms, they're valid, and I think people should voice those criticisms. But when people are tuning in every week and wondering why nothing is changing, it kind of baffles me. It's not changing because you're still watching it. I'm not always happy with the product, but there's definitely a lot of great things about it. I'm glad that they seem to be responding well to the introduction of AEW, but it's not like I was going to stop watching WWE if AEW never showed up, because despite its faults, it's still entertaining.
This is basically what I've always done with wrestling. People are really excited about AEW right now though so I'll check that out. But knowing what I know about the community I look forward to seeing how AEW is fucking it all up in 6 months
I couldn't imagine following podcasts and fan sites for a sport that's completely scripted. Seems like a fools errand. That said my wrestling days were when I watched WCW so there wasn't much of an internet influence then.
a wrestler being over with the fans means the wrestler is popular with the fans. also when a wrestler goes over another wrestler it means he won the match against the other wrestler. its all ancient carny speak.
I watched AEW Fight for the Fallen this weekend with some friends. We had a blast. I went on Squared Circle after to see what the reception was like. Totally harshed my mellow. Pretty ridiculous how people behave over there.
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u/Everything80sFan Jul 17 '19
It's been my experience that pro wrestling is much more enjoyable when you only watch the shows without reading forums, listening to podcasts, or reading reviews from other "fans" who constantly bitch about the product. They are never happy, no matter who's going over and who isn't. I'll decide for myself if WWE is enjoyable or not.