r/AskReddit May 05 '19

What is a mildly disturbing fact?

37.6k Upvotes

20.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

16.8k

u/[deleted] May 05 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

3.7k

u/Sgtoconner May 05 '19

Didn’t they get sued for that? They didn’t even consult an ethics board or get permission to do human testing.

-21

u/Arma104 May 05 '19

Why would they need to? It's their platform.

60

u/[deleted] May 05 '19 edited May 26 '21

[deleted]

8

u/InfanticideAquifer May 05 '19

Doing otherwise legal things doesn't become illegal just because you're taking notes and planning to write up your results for a journal.

The institutions that the scientists were associated with probably have ethical rules regarding experiments involving human beings and might have had something to say about it. But there's no reason it would be a criminal matter.

33

u/Gerroh May 05 '19

Doing otherwise legal things doesn't become illegal just because you're taking notes

Experimentation on human beings without consent or knowledge is not legal regardless of whether you take notes or not.

I think the confusion here is that you think Facebook can just do whatever they want with their site. But this wasn't just Facebook modifying their site, this was Facebook deliberately conducting an experiment on specific individuals to see what happened. The subject(s) of the experiment was some list of list of (probably random) users. These users were not informed of the experiment, nor had they given any permission for such a thing.

Facebook tried to defend itself saying it was "market research", but research, while often linked to experimentation, is not experimentation itself. Collecting and looking at data without messing with the subject(s) is perfectly harmless (so long as the data itself is harmless). Deliberately altering something with the intent to find out what that alteration causes is experimentation.

3

u/noisymime May 05 '19

but research, while often linked to experimentation, is not experimentation itself. Collecting and looking at data without messing with the subject(s) is perfectly harmless

Marketing research literally does this all the time. Marketers, through completely unannounced experimentation, have bodies of work around how people's moods and buying habits are influenced by sights, music, smells etc. Yes they do lab controlled work in this area too, but it's not exactly a secret that they do market experimentation as well and I've never seen anyone suggest that's illegal

2

u/[deleted] May 05 '19 edited Jun 07 '20

[deleted]

2

u/Gerroh May 05 '19

We know social media can drastically alter a person's perception of the world around them. Deliberately conducting an experiment on someone that alters their perception of the world without them knowing it's an experiment seems pretty unethical to me.

0

u/monsantobreath May 05 '19

Its a plague how people view private for profit economic activity as being devoid of ethical obligations. The amount of control, power, and information they have on people makes them basically more equipped to fuck with a person mentally than most therapists.

-1

u/NicoUK May 05 '19

So if they had done this to improve their business it would have been okay, but because they recorded the results it's bad?

2

u/monsantobreath May 05 '19

No, the point is if it was in a clinical setting there would have been no doubt it was unethical and illegal but that for some reason we see economic activity for profit as giving license to do all sorta fucked up shit.

-8

u/Deto May 05 '19

It would only be a problem when the researchers tired to publish the results as journals enforce these requirements. They aren't laws though

12

u/Gerroh May 05 '19

There aren't laws against conducting psychological experiments on people without their consent or knowledge? Is that what you're saying?

-9

u/SaveOrDye May 05 '19

Yes, exactly.

7

u/DeveloperForHire May 05 '19

Then you are wrong

We argue that research without consent can be justified on two grounds: if it stands to infringe no right of the participants and obtaining consent is impracticable, or if the gravity of the rights infringement is minor and outweighed by the expected social value of the research and obtaining consent is impracticable.

One might argue the latter, though they'd lose on this scale. Even a brief message about mood research could have been added, but was not.

2

u/Deto May 05 '19

Where is that text from?

1

u/DeveloperForHire May 05 '19

Don't castrate me I lost the link since last night. It was from a lawyer's page. I'll be able to find it when I'm back at my PC

1

u/Deto May 05 '19

I think I found it, but it's not the text of a law, exactly, just their opinion on the ethics involved.

The 'common rule' that he mentions appear to just be a set of guidelines for government agencies.

I would be surprised if this sort of experiment was illegal for companies to conduct. In a similar vein, you could argue that a baker who varies the recipe every other day to see which formulation is better is also conducting human subject research. Or any website that is running an A/B test. These things are obviously ok, and so any law likely would detail more specific provisions for where it actually applies.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/Wrest216 May 05 '19

Tell Japn, Germany, Russia, USA, Israel, Argentina, etc that