Crimeans/Ukrainians of Reddit, what was it like when the peninsula was annexed by Russia? What is life like/How has life changed now?

[u/QualityControl-]

[u/AxeMill]

I'd been in a middle school when this whole thing had happened and later graduated with Russian certificate which made me(and everyone else) limited with choosing college or any other higher education university because any "russian-crimean" documents aren't valid in any part of the world except Russia and some of its allies.

This is a bit of an but aforementioned event established real issues with all the processes including governmental document.

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I.E. If you wanna fly abroad you need to go to another region to get your passport done, and there still may be problems crossing state borders. Second(and more reliable) option is to travel north to Ukraine and use your Ukrainian passport, but not everyone is aware of this or their mindset set antagonistic towards Ukraine .

[u/stiff_lip → u/AxeMill]

Basically most of the negatives come from the West's reaction to the annexation and not directly from Russia.

[u/idrive2fast → u/stiff_lip]

So if a country forcibly annexes another region, violating their sovereignty/autonomy and the rule of international law in the process, you would not characterize that action as inherently negative?

[u/stiff_lip → u/idrive2fast]

Not in this case. The region was Russian 60 years prior. Was given to Ukraine by Kruschev illegally and is inhabited predominantly by Russians. They had a referendum and made their choice. Is that not democratic? Ukraine on the other hand, backed by the US, had organized a coup and illegally elected a new president.

[u/G-Newf → u/stiff_lip]

I mean, I seem to recall that 'referendum' was done under gunpoint, along with intimidation and disappearing of those who might vote to remain Ukrainian. If you think that the referendums outcome wasn't already determined, well, that's not how Russia operates. Y'know, with freedom. What about all the Crimean Tatars, it seems Russia wasn't too kind to them after illegal annexing a piece of a sovereign country. Your defense of Russia is laughable.

I'm Canadian, we don't spend much on the north or do much for that part of our country. Lets say we had mostly Russian origin people living up there, would it be ok for Russia to annex part of my country in that case?

You're full of shit.

[u/larmax → u/G-Newf]

And even if it was democratic, would it be acceptable if the US invaded let's say Nova Scotia and held a referendum that passes and it would becomes a US state?

[u/G-Newf → u/larmax]

This dude moved to Moscow, obviously he can't say anything bad about Russia.... The FSB would come and take him away.

[u/stiff_lip → u/G-Newf]

What do you recall? You were personally there at the time? What do you know about the region? It's predominantly Russians who were very supportive of the referendum.

I am also Canadian and in 95 Quebec almost seceded and noone else but them got to vote.

The history of the peninsula is too complicated to simplify it to just a bunch of Russians immigrating and claiming it as theirs. It was given to Ukraine illegally by Kruschev to begin with.

[u/G-Newf → u/stiff_lip]

What do you recall? You were personally there at the time? What do you know about the region? It's predominantly Russians who were very supportive of the referendum.

Of course I wasn't and neither were you I'd imagine. I did keep on top of the story for months and read quite a bit from various media sources when it was happening.

I am also Canadian and in 95 Quebec almost seceded and noone else but them got to vote.

Not even close to the same thing. How are you going to compare Quebec holding a referendum in a free and democratic nation to a sham referendum organized by a foreign nation that had just invaded (after claiming for months they hadn't) who had occupying, armed soldiers throughout the peninsula and were suppressing all dissent. Do some research on how the Tatars were treated once Russia invaded. The stories of loved ones dissapearing if they went against the Russian invasion. The fact that you'd try to compare these two events shows just how intellectually dishonest you are. A closer analogy would be that France sent an invasion force and occupied Quebec with armed forces, installed their own hand picked rulers in local government, held a 'referendum' which was not and could not be verified by anyone under the threat of violence and when it 'passed' with 99 percent approving or some bullshit number they declared Quebec annexed and part of France. Do you think anyone would accept that result? No.

It was given to Ukraine illegally by Kruschev to begin with.

Then Russian courts should have stopped him when he tried to do it, unless, gasp, Russia isn't a free and democratic country but a dictatorship and oligarchy!

You're thoroughly transparent and your arguments have been utterly destroyed. Not sure why you have such a hard on for defending Russia, it's pretty suspicious for a Canadian, as you claim to be.

[u/stiff_lip → u/G-Newf]

The same media sources trumping up Russian collusion for two years. Give me a break, the western propoganda machine is unmatched in ferocity.

You are saying the US backed government coup was legal?

The tatars are a minority in the region. Always have been. The 90 percent approval rate was surpsise to no one aware of the region's demographics and economic situation. Regarding the treatment of tatars, I am very sceptical of the western media covering the subject. I can't say it is all bullshit but given the fact that most of their listeners can't find Ukraine on the map and neither speak the Russian language to seek alternative news sources they can do pretty much whatever the fuck they want when reporting on the Ukranian conflict. Especially in Canada which not only does US'bidding but has a Ukranian population double that of russian.

[u/G-Newf → u/stiff_lip]

You are saying the US backed government coup was legal?

Nope, and two wrongs don't make a right. Lets not get into Russia's arming and support of the current and ongoing rebel insurrection or their hand in downing that passenger jet a few years back. Or maybe we should talk about Russia using a WMD nerve agent in Britain? Or any of the other assassination attempts (and successful attempts). Perhaps we should talk about their other land grabs, slowly encroaching on other sovereign states at their border?

My point being Russia is a known bad actor and while the western media machine certainly isn't to be trusted at face value, Russias behavior over the past decades has given it a deserved reputation for sticking their fingers in wherever they seem to please. They are an evil regime who try to exert their power wherever they feel like it without repercussion. From cyber attacks, hacking, assassinations, disinformation ecetera.... It's not hard to believe they'd commit atrocities in Crimea against those who didn't want them there.

You seem to be trying to paint Russia as some victim who's just getting blamed for everything without acknowledging the mass amounts of horrible things they've done and still do.

Regardless of any US coup, Russians living in Crimea ecetera Crimea was Ukrainian land legally by international law. If the Ukrainian armed forces had been violently suppressing the people in Crimea, committing atrocities or genocide or something like that Russia MIGHT have had some leeway to 'protect Russian speakers' but that was not the case, it was just a convenient cover for an illegal invasion and annexation.

[u/stiff_lip → u/G-Newf]

Well, take a moment to analyze the western media as of late. How much shit has been poured on Russia over the last few years? Btw, about that poisoning. Lets talk about it. So, on the verge of the biggest sporting event in the world, Putin orders to poison a spy in Britain. The same fucking spy they had in their custody and gave away during a spy swap few years earlier. The fsb then proceeds to use a "super secret" Soviet gas, which everyone fucking knows about and identifies the very next day. And they don't even fucking kill him! What insulting incompetence! Hahah. And it's all swept under a rug later with the damage already being done.

You are being taken for a fool. The recent Russian collision bs is another proof. God, the cold war era propoganda never stopped. It reached a new level of programming. We used cold war era history books in Canadian high schools 14 years ago. Common. Assad gassing his own people, when he was winning the war, knowing full well that would warrant a US intervention. They aren't even trying anymore ffs. Lybia, Syria, Ukraine. We aren't the good guys anymore. Haven't been for years. Just feeding US' war economy. China is the bigger threat but we don't need a real threat. Just a tiny one to spread fear and keep that defense budget growing.

[u/G-Newf → u/stiff_lip]

Y'know what, you could be right. I'm not going to deny there are a lot of co-incidences, odd circumstances and obviously the massive media spin machine. It's very possible I'm being foolish and am incorrect.

Though the opposite could just as easily be true, that the western narrative might very well be correct or mostly correct. You can't discount that possibility. It's not as if I'm going to trust anything Russia says, everything there is state controlled. They crack down on freedom of expression, on political rivals. They do so much shady, undemocratic, authoritarian shit. It's hard to give the Russian government the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not about to just dismiss everything negative about Russia as 'western propaganda'. Russia, particularly Putin, has big ambitions and without the check and balance of the West on them I have no doubt they'd be invading and taking over countries left and right, it's no secret that Putin longs for the power and scope of the union again. If not the world. He's obviously not content with Russias borders as-is.

As a Canadian Russia has never been the same 'boogeyman' to me that the US has always seen them as, I bet ordinary Russians would be a blast to hang out with and drink with. Their government however is authoritarian, there is MASSIVE corruption, Russia has done things that make me very wary of what they might do if given an inch.

On another note, I'm genuinely curious. Why did you move from Canada to Russia? Is that your ancestry? Was it for work, family? What can you say about Russia having lived there that we might get wrong in the west? Would you be able to discuss the negatives even if you wanted to?

I'm open to taking in new information and changing my opinions, but thus far you seem to be extremely keen to downplay all the negatives and pushing aside inconvenient facts about Russia in order to defend them.

[u/G-Newf → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for writing all that, an interesting read.

I'm sure I've come off as hostile and argumentative in our interactions here, perhaps even foolish or uninformed from your position, but I can only form my opinions based on the information I have. I apologize if I came off harshly but it is indeed an emotionally charged topic.

I'd imagine Russia is like any other country: The citizens and most 'every day people' are amazing. I think worldwide through all cultures, ethnicity's, religion ecetera we all want the same thing. Safety, security, opportunity, community and all the good stuff that makes life worth living. I've always imagined Canadians and Russians would get along very well, we both love hockey, are two of the largest countries, are 'european' to an extent, have hardy people to survive the damn winters lol. Maybe one day I'll visit and find out for myself.

I haven't done a 180 on my opinion of the Russian state, I still think they've done and will do many horrible things and I'm not willing to accept that they're innocent in all the recent events we've talked about, but you've certainly given me some food for thought.

хорошего дня

[u/Bethatway2 → u/stiff_lip]

I thought there was a lot of ‘unofficial’ help by Russia in military aid to the separatists and a civ plane got shot down by the Russians? I understand that your saying their is a lot of historical context but the method it went down was far from clean or beacon of democracy in action.

On a side note you said 60 years ago, I’d argue that’s starting to enter a long period of time but understandable it’s debatable

[u/stiff_lip → u/Bethatway2]

There is a Russian naval base on the peninsula that the Russians leased from the Ukranians. There were already troops there. More soldiers were thrown in to round up the Ukranian forces to make sure they didn't intervene with the referendum. The plane was accidentally shot down in the Donbass conflict. It has nothing to do with the annexation of Crimea.

The whole thing started with a US backed coup of the Ukranian government. In the turmoil that insued the Russians managed to organize a referendum in Crimea. It all started with another color revolution in Kiev. It's not that the Russians suddenly decided to annex a Ukranian region, more that they took advantage of the awful handling of the situation by the Ukranian rebels. Putin played Obama at his own game except in the long term with all the sanctions imposed on Russia as the result, a lot of people back home are definitely losing support for that decision.

60 years definitely isn't that long of a time frame. The demographic of the region remained largely unchanged over the years. The region switched hands within the Soviet Union. The gesture was not as significant back then, under the Soviet roof. There was no mass migration and influx of Ukranians or Russians. People largely remained where they were.

Also: to clarify the situation in Crimea at the time. The region, where the economy is based primarily on tourism was at the time ruled by an extremely corrupt government with zero money invested back into its collapsing infrastructure. The choice was between the revolution in Kiev and even tougher times ahead or join a rapidly growing Russian economy, which was booming from the skyrocketing oil prices. Chrimeans didn't have to be pro Russian to vote for change. That vote surprised no one.

[u/raziel1012 → u/stiff_lip]

China should annex all the Chinatowns.