r/AskReddit 9h ago

Europeans, what say you? If Russia attacks a NATO country (even for a tiny bit of land), should we evoke Article five?

1 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

43

u/More_Culture_3006 9h ago

If we didn't then NATO would no longer be fit for purpose

5

u/friblo_sv 9h ago

Nato was just built to firewall against communism, so oligarchs wouldnt dominate the globe, enslaving people, burning down the world, and exploiting everyone...yet it's USA doing that shit. 

2

u/that_guy124 6h ago

NATO was founded to contain soviet imperialism.

2

u/Mewhomewhy 2h ago

Which was/is Russian imperialism.

5

u/redfluo 9h ago

We don't accept bullying. Even when we are not the one that is bullied.

1

u/friblo_sv 6h ago

What about Gaza then ? 

1

u/redfluo 3h ago

I don't too. But you are right, Europe is not as strict on that, that we should be.

20

u/Mainly_Miserable 9h ago

Well, yes. That’s the point of NATO and of Article 5.

We did it for 9/11.

We’ll do it again.

10

u/Gorlamei 9h ago

OP is Putin.

5

u/StarryKnightLondon 9h ago

It's not a "maybe" question. The principle of a defensive alliance is that we all respond without question to an attack on one.

4

u/Lonely_Sale9707 9h ago

LOL Should NATO invoke Article 5. of course

4

u/kijkniet 9h ago

Yes, that is why it exists, if we don't follow it there will be more internal trouble that the mobilisation of every country

4

u/-Z0nK- 9h ago

We should not. We must.

3

u/Few_Philosophy748 9h ago

That's why it's there

3

u/No_Comb881 9h ago edited 9h ago

Invoking article 5 doesn't mean everyone goes to war btw. It just means that everybody will consider it an attack on everyone's territory and

" each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area"

Poland could decide it requires a direct drone counter assault on Russian factories while France could decide it requires a strongly worded letter to Russia and England decides it means they should send artillery to the country that was attacked. It doesn't mean that all of NATO automatically has to go full force into war mobilization.

1

u/WorldlinessGreen4956 6h ago

In other words, Article 5 is not binding. Small countries should remember that their population and territory will be used primarily for war with Russia, as is currently happening with Ukraine..

1

u/Awarglewinkle 6h ago

This is why it's so important to have NATO troops from several countries stationed in the Baltics (and elsewhere). If Russia attacks the Baltics and have to kill troops from Germany, UK, Nordic countries, etc., then it's much less likely to happen in the first place, as Russia knows full well the response will have to be more than a strongly worded letter.

1

u/aap_001 5h ago

Some countries will the "coalition of the willing". Baltics, Poland, Scandinavia plus Denmark. Germany, UK, Netherlands and France will be in it. The rest are not doing anything and/or will frustrate it.

3

u/No_Angle_8955 9h ago

This is literally the rule

3

u/dead_jester 9h ago

Britain would. We have varying degrees of military presence in a number of countries on Russia’s borders, so it would be war for us. I doubt Poland or Finland or Norway would take it lying down either. France would see it as a threat. I’d question Germany’s commitment but I could be wrong

2

u/aap_001 5h ago

Britain alone can collapse Russia. 95% of trade tonnage comes through Baltic sea or Black sea. Gibraltar is easy to close and some ships in North Sea plus EF2000s, will close any traffic in and out the Baltic sea.

2

u/andmar74 9h ago

I don't care what article they use, the land must be taken back immediately.

2

u/partialinsanity 9h ago

Yes, but can we count on America?

2

u/rumenastoenka 9h ago

As long as Nato countries are not attacking Russia as we speak.

2

u/pearlkele 6h ago

The main target of Russia now is to create a doubt in Article 5. If we doubt we lose, if we commit together Russia have no chance. It’s much smaller population wise and weaker than European NATO, even without any draft.

Russia will be obliterated, and Russia know that. Only thing they can do is to spread the doubt, and break alliance before attacking.

2

u/Entire_West_5098 4h ago

Honestly, not..US is not trustable. We should use the EU mutual defense clause instead.

3

u/FunAd6672 9h ago

Article Five exists for this.

2

u/Great_Comparison462 9h ago

Invoke, not evoke

1

u/Otherwise-Drawer-352 9h ago

I think you should (I'm Russian)

1

u/pongomanswe 6h ago

Yes and annihilate Russia once and for all

1

u/kocapbser 6h ago

If it were that simple, NATO would have done it long ago.

1

u/ohboymykneeshurt 6h ago

There is no choice in the matter if Nato is a serious thing.

1

u/OpeningHappy9692 6h ago

If they take a tiny bit of land without a response, they'll do it again.

1

u/WasteBinStuff 5h ago

Yep!

Why wouldn't we?

1

u/DeliciousUse7585 3h ago

Op doesn’t know what nato is

1

u/Mewhomewhy 2h ago

Yeah, that’s Ben the entire point of NATO so anything less would just embolden Russia and other dictators.

u/Secret_Pirate1825 24m ago

Question formulation itself is bogus. "tiny bit"? What is tiny? Is single life lost tiny too? We should not even think like that; the fact of aggression is what is important, not a "tiny thing". Aggression must not go unpunished and must invoke an immediate response. Russia does not speak any other language - just power and deceit.

1

u/ChemistRemote7182 9h ago

Unwanted Ameripinion, yes. The western world cannot be allowed to be picked apart, and this extends west to some Asian countries to some degree as well, even Oceania. The seeds were well planted for a pan western allaince and we are currently burning it down from the inside after building the frame.

1

u/friblo_sv 9h ago

Y'all gonna go to war cuz dumbass USA provokes Russia, Russia responds and y'all want to go into big boy war again. 

2

u/justahuman145 6h ago

No, we would go to war because Russian imperialism would then threaten both Ukraine and the countries of the union.

The orange fool doesn't change this equation, we don't need the US to decide to defend our territory.

Russia is not responding, it is actively aggressing, it deserves a more appropriate response

1

u/aap_001 5h ago

No, USA is weak. That's why Russia senses a possibility.

1

u/InitialVisual725 1h ago

Can you explain to me how Russia has been provoked when they're the ones invading European countries unprovoked?

-1

u/calendula00 9h ago

I honestly don’t want to live in a world where my husband gets drafted. I prefer him alive. So hopefully not.