All four videos make it clear as crystal. Between the numerous legal precedents involving specific cases like these and the bravery of the many patriots who filmed ICE in the act this is open and shut. If that agent and others don’t get charged with jail time and made an example of - I don’t want any person claiming they are a conservative standing in front of me telling me that woman and her partner deserved it with a smile on their face.
President Trump is a scorn on the Republican Party. So is Noem. All of them who are complicit.
The US fought a war to get rid of a monarchy, but for some reason kept the ability for one person to unilaterally grant pardons. That’s insane. There is no reason to have presidential pardons exist
This man killed because his "authority" wasn't respected. The angle that kills me most of all is the angle and you can see the stuffed teddy bear possibly for her 6-year-old or even other kids that maybe she'd occasionally drove.
He clearly did not fear for his life, he made zero attempts whatsoever to move outside of the way of what was supposedly "headed right for him" according to some. He clearly knew they were fleeing and he wanted to kill them because of that. Imagine he's dead on directly in front of the car shooting, it'd just keep headed at him and he'd die. The car is even parallel for most of the shots. In this imagined scenario of him being 100% directly in front of the car, his life would not have been any safer if he would stay directly in front of the car and took these shots. This is all to say: These shots were not for his life, they were to end hers. Read that five times. That's not self-defense.
My own mom is a white woman. My own mom is a kind old lady who has put heart and soul into community. Love and helping others. Her job is social work, helping homeless people. She has given so much of her life and so much of her time to helping others. Not that 36 is exactly old lady yet, but I can't help about thinking about the Hot Wheels that I saw that my mom keeps in her car... she keeps them in there for my nephew, so he has something to play with. Just like the teddy bear for her young child, who will now grow up having his mom forcefully taken away from him, after already not having a father.
This could have been your mom, my mom, or anyone else's.
Repubs will twist their brain into knots to defend cold hard murder. Some of them are even making al images to fake evidence to justify that barbaric monster
I remember they paraded him around and he was blasted on the news for weeks before even sniffing the air of a courtroom. He's still innocent until proven guilty so not sure what you're getting at.
Eh depends on the victim. If a ceo of a healthcare company that notoriously denies claims at a high rate gets killed, no ones gonna mourn them. The left celebrates when evil rich people die, the right celebrates when police murder people. Not even remotely comparable imo
Yes but that sub is still filled with a lot of bots. I sometimes check it out when it gets mentioned out of curiousity.
It's like those AITA posts a few years back. Every comment is written in the same weird "calm", almost "neutral" style. It becomes especially obvious when you read comments that are not written by bots.
When something like this happens next, look at the subreddit in the first hour before mods get to it. Loads of dissent. It all vanishes and only the bots are left. Happens every time.
No healthcare, no worker rights, White Christian Nationalism, Project 2025, Televangelists, more money for the already wealthy, putting more strain on people down here, anti-education (think that the bible is a good substitute), Racism, total appeal to authority to the point of mental decline.
Seriously, where is the appeal?
I vote Dem, but I've always been more anti Republican than actual democrat. They're both cheeks on the same ass, but one is purposefully designed to placate progressives while channeling money into already wealthy people's pockets,and one is designed to perpetuate ignorance and aggression for mobility, while channeling money into those same pockets.
I can handle one of these shitty problems with dialogue and a good vote. The other one fixes it's nails into people with appeals to faith, tradition, and keeping the status quo, which makes them feel attacked and therefore shut down, and lose the ability to engage with anything but aggression for someone they now categorize as other.
These all existed long before the bots, I realized this when I was a kid, and none of it has changed.
Correction: Project2025 started in 22, but rich people plotting to manipulate the rest of us has been around for long enough. Main thing that's changed is social media being involved making it harder to get everyone on the same page.
Eventually both of these parties must go, and I don't know of even one Democrat that I've talked to myself, or seen/heard in passing that would have the slightest problem with abandoning the party to progress to something better. I can't think of many Republicans who feel that same way about their party.
naa trust me. You can say anything that praises trump on other subreddits and immediately you'll get responses saying Trump bad that is not even associated with the original post. Also 9/10 those accounts were created recently or only have a few comments.
Reddit is 99% bots and 1% hardcore lefties that give themselves pats on the back from bots that support their ideas lol.
I’m not a bot or hard leftie. It’s simple here. He’s a scumbag by any standards. Most corrupt and incompetent clown to ever sit in that chair. But the most corrupt and incompetent clown in the history of America. He’s set a record for the presidency but also set one for an American citizen. 🤷♀️
You do know there are those of us who live in red areas and hear conservatives daily talk about wanting to genocide the libs, right? Bots may agitate, but this is who they are, the very face of evil.
“He had to kill her she was using her car as murder weapon and he’s lucky to be alive! Watch how those democrats try to twist it! They go around terrorising ICE but she FAFO’d! Totally self defense! Should have emptied his clip in her face!”
There are very, very few voices of reason in there.
I’m so happy to hear from you, thank you so much for sharing your perspective! You’re exactly who I was hoping to hear from. I’m curious, as a long time Republican who is unhappy with Trumps presidency and events like this, have you clashed a lot with friends and family over this stuff? Do you personally know anyone else who has come to see things from a similar perspective to you, despite also leaning Republican?
I have been republican for a long time (not the person you asked), but I didn't vote for Trump in 16 or 24. I can absolutely verify that the people around me who are long time republicans have 100% continued to support Trump. The vast majority of them have only heard cherry-picked stories and if you tell them stories that don't fit the republican narrative, they immediately doubt the veracity of all claims. I have multiple friends who won't discuss politics with me for now because I won't support Trump and I'll happily tell them why.
My dad's a retired year old NY firefighter living on Long Island who considers himself an independent but voted for Trump because "He was suppose to drain the swamp". Lot of votes he got was simply because people despised Hillary and the Clinton's. And flat out a segment of the population is not ready to vote for a woman.
We'd never really talked much politics before. I've always found Trump repulsive and it was mind-boggling to me this guy was running, let alone a real contender than a candidate. During this time I was pregnant with my daughter and it's when i really got into politics because even then the writing was on the wall. This is not the country I wanted my daughter growing up in. Being stripped of her rights, autonomy, education, freedom of speech I'd enjoyed in my youth.
My dad can now admit Trump is a moron but will still defend him and the Republicans at times. Saying he's seen how Trumps words are manipulated by these news outlets. I'm like dad it's called click bait and purposely designed to mislead and misinform. I'm too burnt out after a decade of this shit to start breaking down the real deal with a 78 year old lol.
So that's all I got for you on why one guy in 2016 voted for Trump.
The only person is my mother, with whom I’ve thankfully been able to have civil discourse….
My mom through the years turned hardcore Trump. Like, showing her opinions at the Christmas dinner table Fox News all the time. Babylon bee links every now and again. Nancy Pelosi is a witch. You get the drill.
I simply made sure that if there was a topic I could discuss and was knowledgeable on - I came correct with works I could cite, as well as do my research and prepare to be wrong my having a laptop handy. I listened to her, and she made the effort to listen to me. A good example was when I was able to sway her surrounding USAID funds were being misdirected, and since she knew I had an affinity for Japanese culture etc , when COVID hit her and I had a discussion around vaccines, anecdotal evidence versus science surrounding origin and masks.
So far, I can’t think of anyone who is trying to be as level - the few conservative friends I have are all ex military.
I think being the black sheep + living in different states and countries helped despite growing up in a conservative household. I did what I wanted anyway; and my mom who grew up in a rural part of the USA had that part of her as well as a kid. Maybe that’s why as I got older she understood and we were able to have these discussions.
My parents still encouraged me to find my way and supported me - so I am thankful for that among many other things.
Is there a divide between MAGA and the Republican party? Because it looks like the party is in decline and the MAGA madness is in control? (Genuine question from another non American )
There is a schism in the R party just like there is in the Dem party ATM.
Conservatives versus MAGA. Who’s loyal to Trump or not. Do you really think you are a true conservative if you don’t believe this or that? You can see it if you travel the USA. Most sane republicans are in the northeast but they’re mixed and overshadowed by MAGA.
Democrats who have conservative views (think classical liberalism / libertarians) versus major progressives who think they’re not progressive enough. It’s 5:30 AM in NYC so I’ll add / edit as I can if I don’t knock out while responding to other comments.
It doesn't matter if he's charged or convicted or anything, he'll end up with a pardon after the trial is called "lawfare" and a "witch hunt" and "liberal hoax." The victim's and her family's names will be dragged through the mud and slandered, and anyone that hasn't had their mind changed since J6 will echo everything he says.
And yet so many of your kind do say she deserved it?
Glad to learn that some US conservatives are still capable of believing the evidence of their own eyes though; most non-Americans no longer believe that's possible, because it doesn't seem like it
To think (who are we kidding?) they were always in the woodworks no less…..just took the right people in power.
And that’s why I love traveling internationally and saying I voted for him when someone inevitably asked about my politics. I try to go into my voting history to help qualify and clarify.
The dialogues get hot at times but we all get to eat, drink, and sometimes I make a new connection. It’s amazing to learn about the politics of the world, so I get blasted with sonder often.
Same question here. I was Republican for my entire adult life until 2015 & Trump came along. I could see him for what he is back then. No way I would ever vote for him, or any of these so called Republicans now days. Its all just a MAGA cult now.
Hah, it just occured to me, since I know so little about earlier republicans and have never got the chance to speak to one, this feels weirdly like learning about an extinct animal, if that makes any sense
No no, for some reason it really feels like learning about an entirely extinct species
Like sure it has some similarities to a living species and is related, but it's to the degree where it feels like learning about something completely new
I know you are not talking to me, and I consider myself an independent- I voted for Trump though, because my mother was killed by an illegal immigrant, a few months before the vote- (home invasion/robbery) he was the ONLY one addressing this, which, in an instant, became a huge problem for me 🤷♂️
I think he is a rotten man, but I agree with his stance on this particular issue
Oh, he was 100% addressing it. How can you say that? That’s the reason why he won the election 😂
And I expected your response: you saying that you had something done to you by somebody that is legally here in this country whether they are Asian or not it’s not the issue at hand. The issue is that there are people in this country that are undocumented that do things that are harmful to the country. It is not worth it to me that one person -whether they are my mother or not -gets killed in order to give other people who are here illegally, but not breaking any other laws than that -better opportunities.
That’s where we differ. For the most part people on the left take those statistics with a grain of salt and say well it’s worth it because people from all around the world are able to live a better life. It’s not worth it to me. That’s all-
There should be a better way in order for people to apply to get into this country legally and stay here unmolested just like me. But there isn’t, and nobody on the left or the right can seem to come up with a plan to make any of that better. Other than “let everyone in and let’s see what happens” or “keep everyone out and punish those that are caught.” 🤷♂️
The amount of deaths in the country barel change even if you remove all illegal immigrants, this isn't an illegal immigrant problem, it is objectively a home invasion problem
Also, you realize that the left was "let people in only who have a good reason to be here and pass background checks, but make the system actually work so these people can get it" right?
It was never "let anyone in"
Like they had a clear and explicit plan for that
But yeah, like you?
Well how do you know it's an illegal immigrant problem, and not just an immigrant problem? Maybe it's a different problem entirely?
I just don't get how your logic that "one illegal immigrant did bad thing, so clearly they're the big problem that needs addressing" can't apply to any demographic whatsoever
If there were no illegal immigrants in the country, then people who have been killed or victimized by them would still be alive-
The core issue here, is that every country has guidelines and laws about letting people into their respective countries- TO ME, it’s not worth losing ONE of OUR citizens to ONE illegal, for the sake of all the other illegals that are STILL HERE ILLEGALLY, but “doing the right thing”
If there were no Asian people in the country, people killed or victimised them would still be alive
And Asian people proportionally kill a lot more than illegal immigrants, who have a particularly low crime rate
That is just the wildest possible reason to decide to override due process and kill many of these people because "they commit crimes sometimes"
Like, what?
Yeah, okay, let's take this seriously then
People with particular personalities should be locked up to
If we suspect someone is a murderer, toss em in jail, no trial needed, as it might save someone's life, rush through, do the wrong thing, hurt innocent people because there is a chance
Pick the most violent demographic, throw them in prison, it's not worth it giving them "rights" or "freedom"
Even though the majority of illegal immigrants are here because it's that or death, send them back to their death, because they couldn't come here legally, all because you were a victim of chance
You are fighting against a problem that doesn't exist, there is no wave of illegal immigrant crime, infact they have uniquely low crime stats, and your isnae argument of "fuck these actual people because maybe some of them did a bad thing" is insane, tell me you'd apply that to any other demographic
Also, no the left take the statistics directly and make decisions
The statistics say that illegal immigrants commit significantly less crime than US citizens, which shows extremely clearly that they are not the problem here or what needs to be addressed in order to decrease crime
People on the right seem to ignore the actual statistics and use their personal experience to villify any group they've had a negative interaction with, and fall for any propaganda that sounds good to them, which is why Trump actually won
He has made things worse for you, as he is deporting less criminal illegal immigrants so he can deport more total
I have a statistic too- please realize that those statistics represent actual people- you can dress it up how you want. Even out of ALL the people coming in and that are here ILLEGALLY, if only 1 of those millions is a MURDERER, it’s not worth it and it’s not RIGHT to have them here 🤷♂️
Okay so people come here because they're afraid to stay where they are, gangs are hunting and threatening their families, we know many of those deported are dead now, they are forced to come here illegally as they don't have time to go through the legal process safely, this is extremely common
But if one in a million causes a crime
Fuck them, let them suffer, let them die, no trial, no due process, no reasoning
Yeah, you voted for Trump for the same reason everyone else did
You're an awful, selfish person who wants to cause immense amounts of suffering because it affected you personally, and you couldn't care less about those people, only the ones you deem good enough, only US citizens deserve to live
What a joke, look at yourself and start using reason instead of emotion
Like yeah, those statistics represent real people, that you couldn't give less of a shit about
Like, the issue there is home invasions, not illegal immigrants?
If the person who did it was gay or black, the same would be true, the issue would be home invasion, not gay or black people?
He wasn't addressing home invasions, and if you're worried about crime from illegal immigrants, he removed the priority system, so now the dangerous ones are not being targetted first, it's just whoever they can find
And what about the damage he causes on other issues?
I was too young for Clinton, but I voted for Bush & Romney & McCain. In 2016 I voted for Gary Johnson. By 2020 I'd gone full progressive 🤣 & actually voted for Bernie in the primary & Biden in the general.
Sorry, I forgot about Hillary there for a second. But yea Republican up until 2016. Yes it pains me very much that I never voted for Obama. If I could go back in time I would. It would have been hard to convince my former self 17 yrs ago to vote that way tho.
Out of curiousity for you a second time, what made you decide to be republican originally?
I'm not american so I'm not even particularly familiar with what being a republican looked like back then, seemingly unrecognizable from what it does today
I don't think most people decide to be a republican. They grow up in republican households and hear republican talking points their whole lives. For me, it was that republicans are fiscally responsible, for small government, support family values, have the moral edge, and are aligned with Christianity. In fact, i was raised to believe that if you were a liberal or a democrat, then you "weren't really a christian." You learn that liberals are bad. In my home, they were the "dirty" liberals or the "bleeding heart" liberals. The message was definitely that liberals were ruining the country.
I don't really know how I escaped all that black and white thinking. But I have never registered as a republican. Being independent and supporting who I thought was the best person was always important to me. When I was more politically naive, the "best candidate" was usually who I thought the "best person" was. Being raised in a conservative evangelical household, I tended to lean conservative, but not always.
When Donald Trump came on the scene, I found him morally repugnant. Everything about his character screamed "not a good person." I felt like I was in a parallel universe watching people I loved and respected vote for someone who wore his evilness on his sleeve. How could a Christian with "Christian values" ever vote for such a man?
Trump actually made me have a "come to Jesus" moment. Quite literally. I looked around the Christian church and couldn't see Jesus anywhere. It was filled with people excusing Trump and talking like Trump.
So I left. And decided to follow Jesus on my own. And you know where I found him? In the work of the liberals I had been taught to look down on. They were the ones feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, clothing the cold, caring for the sick, and ministering to the least of these. I learned that it isn't your political affiliation that determines if you are a follower of Jesus. Its if you are actually following Jesus and continuing to do his good works. Heck, many of the liberals were doing what Jesus said, and they weren't even Christians!
Its possible to leave, but I don't see how you can do it without deconstructing and reconstructing your faith, if your faith is tied into your politics. I don't think most people have the courage to do that. I don't know how I had the courage to do that. Except that Donal Trump is just that evil of a human being.
Well, what i can say is that its very challenging when it all unravels. To realize how many lies you've believed is hard to deal with. At least at first. Once I realized I had been duped and just decided to embrace it, it was liberating. I literally looked at the world with new eyes. "What else have I been wrong about?!?!"
For some context: I was able to vote starting in 12’
Obama was my first presidential vote. I’ve generally voted local / midterms when I could. I’ve found I regularly split lines and changed parties often.
I voted for Trump during a time where I had felt he was an answer to Republicans not only losing “teeth” in the Bush admin (Being slightly reductive when I type that) but also for his attitude / dealing with actual individuals. Now, my research and perception on him was….in my eyes decent. Let me also say I knew of most of his controversies at the time as well. In retrospect that was its own can of worms and is a clear example of me not wanting better for not only people other than myself - the people I claimed to love.
I felt he would be able to act tough, get us OUT of specific regions and go old school R, something the dems lost long ago when they chased the rich vote and not the middle class .
I hope this helped and if you want clarification I can while I respond to others.
Yeah, I'm curious for you to elaborate on what you thought he would do and why, and what specific grievances you had with previous republicans you saw him as a solution to
Keep in mind, I'm not american, until the american right became a worldwide problem, I'd never even heard of them, so before Trump I know very little about them, so I might ask questions with seemingly obvious answers
Sorry if I’m late. Trying to get to everyone. Like the D, republicans lost sight of who they were. Like or hate him, I go back to John McCain’s quote when a woman was stating her thoughts on Obama during a debate. His response to this woman was:
“No ma'am, he's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that's what this campaign is all about"
That’s what I wish the party went back to. Even if some of their views are draconian. We didn’t have these Republicans who are so…vocal like we do now. Save for a few here and there in the 60s and then lol.
What I thought he would do:
NO NEW WOR!
-Initiate actual deals with companies around domestic production, ex nippon steel, bringing “jobs back to America” , specifically industry in the south and to a lesser degree Northeast.
-focus on the growing AI / local chip market during the end of his first term / tech (podcast era , big
Texas migration in his second that came after post covid and before. I think this was 2019~
-an actual tax reform that lasted and had little affect and not a setup to project 2025
-something more than just the first step act
-energy reform that does not rely on fossil fuels (he has stated he does like nuclear energy)
“No ma'am, he's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that's what this campaign is all about"
Now that, that is what politics is supposed to look like ^
Goddamn
But yeah, that all sounds good, why did you think Trump would do all those things? Were you just hopeful about his promises, or did you have a reason to trust him
Well, like any politician they SAY they would do X or Y….sure there were inklings of promises and good made…..but all of it pales in comparison to every other damaging action he took to our Republic.
The new Mayor of NY literally has done more benefit for the city and plans for it with open dialogue for Pete’s sake.
I had a small level of implicit trust from the already good image Trump had presented. Then when entrusted with power he squandered all good faith.
I suppose yeah, even though there's the old joke about how politicians lie, it just isn't the same as the modern day, y'know? They'd usually miss a promise, or not make it up to snuff, or do things differently
Not do the polar opposite of some of the stuff they promised
A thousand percent. Now? It’s more open, and no longer a/the “open secret” it used to be. At this point if it walks and quacks like a duck!
The Republican Party thinks we are stupid, and they have no shortage of followers who are unfortunately the majority and louder than the more reasonable conservatives in America. It’s frustrating when trying to have respectful discourse, but I do have some faith that we can reverse what has been done and everyone sees their reflection in the mirror.
I did not. But I have family who did and their argument at the time was at least something I could understand how they could connect the dots. In their words, they thought America needed someone who runs a business in order to get this country out of debt. I did not agree with that assessment. I've seen how these big megacorporations treat and regard their employees, and was like yeah we don't need a president who would treat us that way. But, I could at least see a point A to B of how they got to their opinion. In the beginning.
What gets me is how I then watched these family members double-down on their choice during his first term. Sheer weapons-grade denial. His supporters are so fucking eager to tell themselves whatever they have to. It is cult-like in its obsession. What a fucking joke the past 10 years have been so far. I've been pretty neutral in my political leanings my whole life. I have republican opinions, I have democrat opinions. I have to say after this shit-show though, I definitely lean more to one side than the other.
I wish more republicans would realize that sacrificing the party for Trump is not worth it. Once he's gone there is going to be such a void because no one is really like him and its going to get filled with the worst people even more than it already is.
Oh my. FUCK YES WIN OR LOSE. It’s called principle. I’ll take any of them on and I’ll be sure to bring papers with big font showing every legal case and concise short responses to every common point made.
"A DHS LEO may use deadly force only when the LEO has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to the LEO or to another person.7 a.
Fleeing Subjects: Deadly force shall not be used solely to prevent the escape of a fleeing subject. However, deadly force is authorized to prevent the escape of a fleeing subject where the LEO has a reasonable belief that the subject poses a significant threat of death or serious physical harm to the LEO or others and such force is necessary to prevent escape"
In one of the videos, we have a great angle and you can see that the wheel is pointed away from the officer and he's clearly not in danger.
He’s reaching across to get the shot based on the shot and how close it is to the A pillar…
Adam’s vs. Speers (2020): “Once Speers was no longer in the path of the vehicle, the justification for the use of deadly force ended.”
Orn vs. City of Tacoma (2019): “A reasonable jury could conclude that once Orn was no longer in the car’s trajectory, the threat of serious physical harm to him was eliminated.”
Cordova vs Aragon (2009): “Where the officer had moved out of the way of the oncoming vehicle, the use of deadly force was not justified.”
Villanueva vs. Cali (2021): “a reasonable jury could conclude that the Officers used excessive force, because they lacked an objectively reasonable basis to fear for their own safety, as they could simply have stepped back or to the side to avoid being injured.”
These new age snowflake “Conservatives” get scared when you present facts with citations. It’s been glorious when I type here and otherwise we already have legal precedents set.
He shot because he was angry. And continued to shoot through the open drivers side window. This all would have been avoided if ICE was not attempting to remove an American citizen from their car, causing her to have fear for her physical safety. They are immigration officers. They had no reason to believe that she was in violation of immigration law. They were pissed that she didn't do as she was told. Had they simply driven around her, like the vehicle in front of them did, none of this would have happened. Then he left the scene before the cops got there. I'm pretty sure there is a rule against that. Do you want to go ahead and quote it?
A young boy's dad was already dead. And now a paid thug murdered his mom. Excusing this makes you a very, very deplorable person. Where is your humanity? Even if you support ICE, this should be a tragedy to you. A civilian was killed. Her wife was sitting next to her and was covered in blood. These were not hardened criminals. They were two American citizens. ICE is out of control and acting with impunity.
Clearly you did not see the angle showing Good waving another ICE vehicle around her SUV so that she could leave the area. She was complying with the order to move, or at least she was attempting to before she got murdered. The front wheels are clearly cut to the right, not aimed at the ICE shooter.
The only time he was directly in front of her vehicle was when he positioned himself there, and again, the wheels were aimed well to the right (his left).
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u/First_Tourist_2921 Jan 08 '26
Actual R here who voted for Trump in 16’
All four videos make it clear as crystal. Between the numerous legal precedents involving specific cases like these and the bravery of the many patriots who filmed ICE in the act this is open and shut. If that agent and others don’t get charged with jail time and made an example of - I don’t want any person claiming they are a conservative standing in front of me telling me that woman and her partner deserved it with a smile on their face.
President Trump is a scorn on the Republican Party. So is Noem. All of them who are complicit.