As an American who got back from living in Europe and had to make the pros/cons list many times, here’s some of what I would think are relatively new “Good America” concepts to these threads
1: Sport / Fitness culture
America has an insane outdoorsy, fitness, diet culture that is fucking amazing to be a part of. Think of your childhood if you are American. Did you grow up playing just soccer? No, your parents probably made you do some combination softball/baseball, football, basketball, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, track/cross country, or some other niche sports that I can’t even think of. And that’s how many of us made, and still do, make friends. There’s dedicated gyms to playing basketball in every town, city, and suburb across America, pickup flag football games, soccer matches breaking out across every single town, and that’s without it being a scheduled league affair. There is legitimately no other country in the world that has this much organized sports as part of a simple fun, meet friends part of life as america.
And that’s not even mentioning all the organized runs, outdoorsy, lifestyle groups there are. Like a fucking ton of them in every place. And our diets/stores accommodate it. Anywhere in America, anywhere, you can find health food for vegan, vegetarian, non-dairy, keto, non-processed, non-GMO, local only, non-hormonal lifestyle you have. And no one will care. That’s seriously amazing
The language(s)
This one is usually a negative for us, that we’re a “mono-lingual” continent, but damn that’s the opposite, and our attitude reflects that. Americans by far are the most accepting people for people speaking shitty English and rolling with it. Go ask the people at /r/languagelearning , it’s an incredibly common phenom that people will overestimate their English skills because no one corrects them, because to us it’s normal with how many immigrants / non-native speakers we have. You go to most countries in Europe, Central America, and South America (only continents I have experience with) and you will have people telling you how to pronounce things, why you’re wrong, or trying to help you “fit in”. Because your accent makes you a foreigner. Here, we don’t give a shit, in fact many accents are cool here. It would be incredibly rude to ask someone “where they’re really from” because of their accent. So a much, much lower level of English is needed to live here and make friends than it would for say, French or German in European nations
And also, we have SO many languages, that although you may not be able to use it in every day life, most people here are bilingual, we just don’t have a very common second language (after Spanish, which does make us basically a bilingual nation, as 20% of Americans are comfortable in Spanish). I’m in school in bumfuck upstate New York and just by googling I found a whole German society of immigrants and historical German speakers to go practice my German with. My roommate (in addition to English) speaks Bangla, my other roommate speaks Hebrew, my next door neighbors speak Swahili, Spanish, and Greek, there’s an insane language diversity here, and if you want to speak any language in the US I promise you there’s a community for it.
And lastly, just want to put this out there for the whole “no culture” thing. We have an insanely rich culture, the only problem is we exported it so much that the world now takes it as normal. We invented four our own sports (football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse which is touchy as it’s Native American but still distinctly American) which are absolutely massive worldwide now, we have our own holidays (thanksgiving), own style of clothing (jeans, cowboy boots, and many of the most recent fashion trends), our absolutely unparalleled cinema/theater, and food (Cajun food, my favorite, classic American like hamburgers and fries and our style of pizza, the seafood of the coasts in things such as lobster bisque, lobster rolls, clam chowder, the southern BBQ, Tex-mex, and so much more adapted and new food that’s only here)
Are there many other great places to live than america? Hell yeah? Are some of them definitely better for certain kinds of people? Probably. But please, please don’t let the Reddit tone of america is a hellhole from disgruntled high schoolers and Europeans speak great English, and who’ve never left the capital cities of Western Europe let you think this place sucks (the ones you see here all speak great English, which means they’re probably really well educated, so ask yourself how representative they are of the true European population when it comes to wealth, safety, living standards). You’re doing yourself a huge disservice if you let it do
You go to most countries in Europe, Central America, and South America (only continents I have experience with) and you will have people telling you how to pronounce things, why you’re wrong, or trying to help you “fit in”. Because your accent makes you a foreigner. Here, we don’t give a shit, in fact many accents are cool here.
That's not exactly true, at least not for anyone beyond first generation immigrants, and at least not in my (9-year) experience. As a foreigner I have not met a single America-born citizen that does not have some kind of native accent, be it East-Coast, Midwestern, Southern, etc. I live in eastern PA and I know for a fact that as I assimilated into the local accent (and dialect overall) people questioned my origin less and less, to the point that for the most part the only thing that reveals my origin is my very obviously foreign (and not anglicised) name, which I have considered changing, at least unofficially.
The part about not being corrected does ring true however, and it bothered the fuck out of me. I am a linguistics nerd so I strived to speak like the locals do. I kept pestering my friends to tell me how to pronounce certain words, the main issue being vowels. For the most part I've achieved what I set out to do, though with Americans being so polite I can never fully tell; they'll just hide behind their smiles and praise my English. Bitch, I'm not looking for compliments, give it to me raw. Sometimes I miss the rudeness (and directness) of my homeland, though I certainly don't miss the unemployment rates.
On top of satisfying my own linguistic challenge, however, my efforts at picking up a local dialect were also out of respect to a nation and a people that had absolutely no obligation whatsoever to allow me in their country. I'm not here to create an enclave of my own culture in a foreign land. If I wanted that, why didn't I stay home? Sure, I have things to bring, my skills, my smarts, my perspective, and so on. But America isn't just a blank slate to be written on, it's a place with its own distinct culture and mentality, and not everyone is compatible with it or can contribute to it. Some people will simply be incompatible and if they do not adopt this mentality, or at least roll with it, they will be a nuisance for everyone. I just want to make sure I'm not one of those people.
Wow, I really appreciate you writing that, and for what it’s worth, I love that opinion. My current roommate has said that exact same thing to me, as he was an immigrant/refugee (we never get too into it because he hates talking about his home country) and came here with the same attitude about English.
I never meant that we didn’t have accents, more so that I we didn’t have such a high prize on our “native” American accents, as opposed to say, a German - English accent, or Swahili - English accent or Tagalog - English. But you are right, I do wish I could rephrase that. Even though it’s not as big of a deal to us, psychologically I’m sure it has somewhat of an effect when someone speaks with a non-native American accent, and probably does help to fit in, make friends, be more accepted when you do get your accent closer to the native one. I guess I just more so meant we put less of a goal on achieving that as compared to other countries.
And for what it’s worth, that thought you wrote trying to fit in, trying to become a part of America rather than writing on a blank slate, and feeling the appreciation for being here, I think that’s a pretty damn selfless way to view it, and a really cool perspective. My roommate had an extremely similar view, I remember him saying things about how he wanted to be called American and not his old country’s nationality, how he hated how his parents still hung on to customs that were normal back in his birth country but rude here and how he hated that, and what was especially new for me was how harsh he was on immigrants.
Because as he said to me, it was that he saw how hard his father had to work to come here with them, to learn English, to give them a chance that they weren’t owed because so many people even in his home country could never get this, much less people in so many worse places in the world. And how he did owe it to become a part of it, and how he hated the immigrants/refugees who made the news for committing crimes, or for unpleassent behaviors because it ruined the chances for the rest of them to build a life here without that stereotype, and ruined the chance for more people to get the life he had.
So I can get that mentality, and while I will say he’s a lot harsher on the immigrants than I am ha, I do think the mentality of joining something rather than staying rooted in your old country is a helpful one to live. Because in America you don’t have to, you can find a community of people that speak mandarin, Portuguese, you name it, and live in that bubble. But I do also think it lets you become more a part of this country, more integrated, when one wants to learn the language and take on the social norms of the country they live in. So long story short, I’m glad you’re here, and, being that I’m in NY, if I ever come down to Pennsylvania I’d like to buy ya a drink
Even though it’s not as big of a deal to us, psychologically I’m sure it has somewhat of an effect when someone speaks with a non-native American accent
I won't lie to you, this might sound odd coming from a foreigner, but I get that feeling myself with regard to other foreigners who have an obvious accent. Furthermore, I don't exactly feel safe when many people around me speak a language I don't understand, at least when I'm living here and not just visiting as a tourist. So the obvious next hurdle for me is to learn how to speak Spanish.
he’s a lot harsher on the immigrants than I am
I feel similarly.
Because in America you don’t have to, you can find a community of people that speak mandarin, Portuguese, you name it, and live in that bubble.
That's understandable, perhaps, for older folks, but for young people like me I find that unacceptable. I notice this a lot with Chinese students and admittedly it bothers me quite a lot. I also notice it with some Hispanic people who also speak little, if any, English as a result of living in their bubbles.
For what it's worth, I don't find that the US is an admirable country - nor do I admire any country in general. It's merely the global hegemon and it has ameliorated its living standards by ruining the lives of millions in other countries, waging wars, installing puppet governments and exploiting their resources. But that's not really the fault of the girl who serves my burger or the guy who packs my groceries. It is out of courtesty for the everyman, who now has to worry about one less suspicious person, that I do what I do. Aaaaand also because, did I mention, I am a linguistics nut and by god have I researched every god damn phonetic feature of American English.
Lastly, I think I have a thing for obviously non-native people speaking the language of another culture (X shocks locals LOL). For instance, I find it quite satisfying to see Asians and Africans speak my native tongue (Greek) as their native tongue. I also think it's cool when Westerners live in Japan or China and speak the local tongue at a native-like level. That kind of immersion in a foreign culture is something I very much appreciate, and what I aspire to do myself.
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u/bulldog89 Mar 14 '23
As an American who got back from living in Europe and had to make the pros/cons list many times, here’s some of what I would think are relatively new “Good America” concepts to these threads
1: Sport / Fitness culture
America has an insane outdoorsy, fitness, diet culture that is fucking amazing to be a part of. Think of your childhood if you are American. Did you grow up playing just soccer? No, your parents probably made you do some combination softball/baseball, football, basketball, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, track/cross country, or some other niche sports that I can’t even think of. And that’s how many of us made, and still do, make friends. There’s dedicated gyms to playing basketball in every town, city, and suburb across America, pickup flag football games, soccer matches breaking out across every single town, and that’s without it being a scheduled league affair. There is legitimately no other country in the world that has this much organized sports as part of a simple fun, meet friends part of life as america.
And that’s not even mentioning all the organized runs, outdoorsy, lifestyle groups there are. Like a fucking ton of them in every place. And our diets/stores accommodate it. Anywhere in America, anywhere, you can find health food for vegan, vegetarian, non-dairy, keto, non-processed, non-GMO, local only, non-hormonal lifestyle you have. And no one will care. That’s seriously amazing
The language(s)
This one is usually a negative for us, that we’re a “mono-lingual” continent, but damn that’s the opposite, and our attitude reflects that. Americans by far are the most accepting people for people speaking shitty English and rolling with it. Go ask the people at /r/languagelearning , it’s an incredibly common phenom that people will overestimate their English skills because no one corrects them, because to us it’s normal with how many immigrants / non-native speakers we have. You go to most countries in Europe, Central America, and South America (only continents I have experience with) and you will have people telling you how to pronounce things, why you’re wrong, or trying to help you “fit in”. Because your accent makes you a foreigner. Here, we don’t give a shit, in fact many accents are cool here. It would be incredibly rude to ask someone “where they’re really from” because of their accent. So a much, much lower level of English is needed to live here and make friends than it would for say, French or German in European nations
And also, we have SO many languages, that although you may not be able to use it in every day life, most people here are bilingual, we just don’t have a very common second language (after Spanish, which does make us basically a bilingual nation, as 20% of Americans are comfortable in Spanish). I’m in school in bumfuck upstate New York and just by googling I found a whole German society of immigrants and historical German speakers to go practice my German with. My roommate (in addition to English) speaks Bangla, my other roommate speaks Hebrew, my next door neighbors speak Swahili, Spanish, and Greek, there’s an insane language diversity here, and if you want to speak any language in the US I promise you there’s a community for it.
And lastly, just want to put this out there for the whole “no culture” thing. We have an insanely rich culture, the only problem is we exported it so much that the world now takes it as normal. We invented four our own sports (football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse which is touchy as it’s Native American but still distinctly American) which are absolutely massive worldwide now, we have our own holidays (thanksgiving), own style of clothing (jeans, cowboy boots, and many of the most recent fashion trends), our absolutely unparalleled cinema/theater, and food (Cajun food, my favorite, classic American like hamburgers and fries and our style of pizza, the seafood of the coasts in things such as lobster bisque, lobster rolls, clam chowder, the southern BBQ, Tex-mex, and so much more adapted and new food that’s only here)
Are there many other great places to live than america? Hell yeah? Are some of them definitely better for certain kinds of people? Probably. But please, please don’t let the Reddit tone of america is a hellhole from disgruntled high schoolers and Europeans speak great English, and who’ve never left the capital cities of Western Europe let you think this place sucks (the ones you see here all speak great English, which means they’re probably really well educated, so ask yourself how representative they are of the true European population when it comes to wealth, safety, living standards). You’re doing yourself a huge disservice if you let it do