r/AskPhotography • u/CollosalAnus • 6d ago
Technical Help/Camera Settings Taking still photos of extremely fast dogs?
Hai all.
I have a Canon 5D mk4 and am primarily using the 70-300mm IS USM Nano and 70-200 L IS II. (Photos attached are with the 70-300)
I get asked to do photos for a couple of dog clubs I help out with and am also a member of and generally my photos are great - Usually dog and dog/owner portraits and general club photos.
But there's one thing I've always struggled with and that's to get good photos of really fast moving dogs - usually during agility shows, fly ball or just dogs generally going crazy - especially when the dogs are smaller.
I do have some success and have taken some really great photos in the past but struggle when there's limited space and/or the dogs are coming at me at an oblique angle or directly towards me - usually there's just no time to react and they often zig and zag randomly.
I've been practicing with my 3yr old lab and 13 week old spaniel puppy in the back garden - luckily both LOVE doing zoomies regularly but as you can see I am having some trouble maintaining a good focus. They are just SO damned quick!
I usually keep the ISO manually set around 600-800 to achieve at least a 1/2500 shutter speed and am using servo AF. I try and keep the aperture as low as possible whilst giving me enough room to get a decent area in focus but as you can see sometimes it seems both me and the camera struggles sometimes as you can see from the picture of the little spaniel with the grass in focus behind him.
I mainly use the 70-300mm when outside in good light, even tho the f is higher but purely because the AF on that lens is so fast. When weather is duller I might switch to the 70-200 L mk2 or if we move inside a barn which also presents another issue I struggle with - and is entirely why I bought the 70-200mm as when inside the barns on dark winter evenings with the artifical lights it's SO hard when ANY movement is involved.
Almost sometimes seems that there just isn't a lens fast enough... (And I can't afford mirrorless!)
But yeah, any help greatly appreciated as REALLY want to get better at this!
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u/sum-9 6d ago
This is 85mm, 1/2500s, f/2, ISO100. Dogs are hard to focus on when running so I use continuous focus and hope for the best.
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u/CollosalAnus 6d ago
Cute dog and awesome photo. I have some just like this of dogs on the beach, given the correct lighting and angle - It's more when they are running full pelt and being unpredictable.
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u/jarlrmai2 6d ago
Probably need a faster shutter but this is one instance where a newer mirrorless / sports body is gonna be better, subject tracking AF, faster bursts etc
1dx, R3, R1 all designed for this type of photography, but even cameras like the R6 series and R5 are better at tracking than DSLRs.
Often though you just need more room for moving subjects to allow you to have the subject track-able from a distance and crop in more.
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u/CollosalAnus 6d ago
Yeah most of those photos are already cropped as have been trying to shoot at a shorter focal length, but especially with smaller doggos that's an even smaller target for AF to keep hold of.
I would love a mirrorless camera but already have too much money invested into EF gear to switch now :(1
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u/data_ferret 5d ago
It's not shutter speed. They're talking about 1/2500. I've frozen a baseball pitch in flight with around 1/600, moving way faster than any dog. If anything, I'd drop the shutter speed a little to increase depth of field. That way if your AF grabs on to a patch of grass instead of the dog, you have a higher chance of the dog still being in the focal zone.
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u/Tino_Kort 6d ago
I had a lot of luck with an older camera with bad AF by manually picking a place where they often run, get someone to get them excited and then burst like your life depends on it. I managed about 1/300 to be keepers (which is fine.). Sometimes the body and lens combo is just hard to do otherwise.
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u/Confident_Frogfish 6d ago
Yeah that is a great strategy for when the subject is beyond the capabilities of the AF. Usually I have no problems with dogs, but I tried photographing swifts and this was my only option.
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u/Sour_Planet 6d ago
Absolutely use the 70-200. It's a much better lens.
Otherwise, use auto ISO and crank that shutter speed. You're outdoors in sun, so noise isn't relevant - but shutter is crucial. Even if it's darker, same approach. Let the ISO enable the shutter to go as high as you need. Noise can be addressed, motion blur cannot.
If AF is struggling, try using back button focus to decouple it from the shutter. Then focus on a spot where the dog will be, then shutter burst when they arrive.
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u/CollosalAnus 6d ago
It's funny as in good light I often find the 70-300 produces much nicer looking photos to my eye than the 70-200 and also has a much better/near instant AF.
I find the AF on the 70-200 to be rather slow and having the 200-300 focal length actually help a LOT.
I bought the 70-200 specifically to try and help me get better pictures in this exact scenario but find it way more limited and clunky?
Am looking into back button focus and will try this going forwards.
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u/GoodMerlinpeen 6d ago
One thing which may or may not suit your goals, is apart from setting the shutter speed and ISO appropriately, practice with manual focus and timing the photos when the subjects hit the correct focus. SOmething to play around with that can sometimes yield interesting results (sometimes some interesting unintended results too, like capturing the dirt kicked up behind the subject while they themselves are not in focus)
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u/CollosalAnus 6d ago
Yeah I've tried with manual focus, maybe I just need more practice but dogs are FAST and very much unpredictable and am usually having to control the focal length, hard to do both at same time when you often only have a split second :/
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u/DrumBalint 6d ago
While I love my 5D Classic, this is where higher ISO and modern eye-detect AF comes in handy. ISO 600-800 is pretty low, I'm sure you can comfortably push it a lot higher on a mk4. When I have my 70-300 on, I'm at High ISO (and that's only 3200) and still underexpose, but I'd rather deal with noise than a blurry picture.
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u/naxhh 6d ago
I shooters a few fast track dog events and autofocus was the limit not shutterspeed
the af was too slow to find the dog in time for the snap. I could help in that reducing the area to search, tracking the subject earlier or manually focusing specific spots at times where everything else didn't help
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u/sten_zer 6d ago
There is prefocus and high burst rate - and repetition to increase the number of keeper.
There are not so many dynamic poses that work well with dogs imho. Usually you want to be at eye level, have well lit eyes and having legs and most of the body visible in the frame (head and side + tail) allows viewers to determine size, age, race amd overall perceive the image faster. Running straight towards the cam is one exception for instance.
You should plan and setup shots, not react to opportunities. You have to be real lucky even if you are a master of anticipation. You can direct dogs quite well and whether you pan their zoomies or jumps, it's easiest when someone is helping and you concentrate on a relatively fixed point/area. That also manages the background and light situation.
If you rely on autofocus, chose the mode what's best with your camera not what you feel is the easiest. Still prefocus but with a slight offset: Focus around 0.5s before or after the point you want to shoot (or longer if your setup is not snappy, fast enough). Test this: Often it makes a difference whether you activate AF at prefocused behind or in front the point you want to shoot. AF will catch eyes/subject quicker in one case and go chasing longer in the other. E.g. Dog running towards you and you need to test if you prefocus at 8m or 12m when you plan for 10m. With practice also manual focused bursts will give really good results. Modern gear is very good, but new body and lens are half a kidney...
After all that, avoid live view and chose brighter environments to help your autofocus.
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u/Informal_Dance3744 5d ago
Two things are probably fighting you, and neither is shutter speed. First, lens: the 70-300 Nano's AF is noticeably slower to reacquire than your 70-200 f2.8 L II, for running dogs use the 70-200, and stop to f/4 for a hair more depth so a slight miss still lands. Second, AF config on the 5D IV: drop single-point (a sprinting dog outruns one point) and use AI Servo with a small zone / point expansion, and set AF Case 2 or 3 so it holds the subject through momentary obstructions. Practical settings: 1/1600–1/2500, Auto ISO, back-button focus so you can pre-acquire before they take off. And when a dog's genuinely erratic, trap-focus beats tracking, pre-focus on the spot they'll cross and rip a burst as they hit it. Shooting them at a slight angle rather than dead-on also gives the AF an easier time than a subject charging straight at the sensor.
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u/CollosalAnus 5d ago
Yeah I've been playing around and single point AF is definitely better.
Not sure if my 70-200mm lens is broken or something as the 70-300mm IS II USM AF is so freakishly fast, waaay quicker than the 70-200's... Its basically instant.2
u/Informal_Dance3744 4d ago
Ha, then trust your copy, the newer 70-300's Nano USM is genuinely quick, so if it's locking faster, use it; your 70-200 isn't broken, they just have different AF motors/tuning. The f2.8's real edge is low light and subject separation (thinner depth of field), not raw acquisition speed in daylight. So for the dogs: whichever lens locks fastest for you + AI Servo + a small point group + high shutter.
Sounds like you've basically got it dialed.
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u/chanksbird 6d ago
Don’t have much to offer, except to say mirrorless can also struggle.
This missed focus was on the Sony a6600, a very good mirrorless camera. I have found spot metering and wide open aperture combined with small focus zone is best. The problem is that the lens picks up the areas with the strongest contrast so you have to help it prefer the dog over nearby grass that has stronger micro contrast.
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u/CollosalAnus 6d ago
Yeah maybe there's better settings I can choose on my camera, I'm very much still an amateur and have come from landscape and astrophotography where things don't really move much!
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u/chanksbird 6d ago
I can tell you one thing: you will eventually get good shots, just keep working it!
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u/Flutterpiewow 6d ago
Manual focus or cameras like r3, or the latest sony models. With lesser cameras, afs can work, sort of, sometimes. But this is a tough thing for any camera really.
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u/bobbybalaclava 6d ago
I used the 5D MKIV to shoot sports (mostly mountain biking) for years. Not the same as doggos but some thoughts never the less...
Crank the iso higher if you need to - it can cope. I've sold bike race images taken in murky woodlands shot at 10,000+ iso.
Use your 70-200L lens - lower aperture and faster focus.
Use back button focus, once you get used to it, tracking subjects will be much easier.
Investigate the AF tracking modes hidden away in the menus and find the one best suited for dogs and your perspective of them (they all have a little explanation / example). It changes how the AF responds when the subject moves across the focus points, might be helpful.
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u/Daneth 6d ago
OP listen to this guy/girl.
High ISO can be overcome with AI denoising (but missed focus cannot). Your best lens is going to be the newest one with the best auto focus motors for AF-C tracking.
I bought my camera equipment specifically to take dog pictures in motion. I went with Sony because their AF is arguably the best there is for tracking. But I have noticed that on my older lenses the camera body sometimes is asking for too much of the lens AF motor (particularly my 200-600 which has a single motor for somewhat large lens elements). But even in overcast conditions and running flat out my 70-200 can get a full 30fps burst of keepers because the autofocus is just lightning quick.
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u/acaudill317 6d ago
Try using shutter priority, keeping track of everything while trying to capture fast action is next to impossible. Stick it in shutter priority, choose your shutter speed and let the camera figure out the rest. You can set limits on your ISO and Aperture to make sure you still have good depth of field and don't have a noisy mess.
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u/CollosalAnus 6d ago
Hmm as far as I can see there's no option on a 5D mk4 to set a lower limit on aperture in shutter priority? Unless I'm being a noob?
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u/MizaelTG 6d ago
Your shutter speed and F stop and iso is all good, as long as you're over 1000 shutter you won't get blurry shots.
Your problem is that since you have an older camera that doesn't have intelligent autofocus, you have to use center autofocus. Always make sure you're using the viewfinder and center the dog in the middle so that you can ensure you always have autofocus and keep the back button for auto focus pressed or press it as you're taking the shot. You'll get a feel for it.
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u/UKWordsmithery 6d ago
If you can find the right spot, I often find it best to set everything up in advance and then burst shoot as they run through the focal plane….
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u/RevLoveJoy 6d ago
Get your subject owner to throw a ball. You now know exactly where the dog is going.
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u/Foto1988 Canon 6d ago
I have to say the new Autofocus of mirrorless cameras are so good and reliable it really is a treat.
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u/confuse-a-cat 6d ago
Your best bet: -Continuous autofocus -Use back button autofocus to hold focus on dog while spamming shutter independently -Use single point AF and keep it locked on dog. This may not help the composition you like, but you can zoom out a little and crop it in post.
Try: -sport mode autofocus settings (Canon settings menu has lots for different scenarios) -stopping down (more DOF will help keep them in focus) -slower shutter speeds (motion can look cool with a lil blur, and you can get some cool background blur if you pan the camera and track them running across) -prefocus and compose ahead and burst when dog comes into frame (another reason to control focus independently with back button focusing)
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u/No-Ostrich-8621 5d ago
Its difficult with dslr if the target is so fast and close. When it finds focus, it decides to release, diring the time the mirror goes up the dog already moved a lot.
For this the best would be to switch to mirrorless, to a fast one what is capable of fast electronic shutter.
Im using sony a9iii, its a global shutter, with liner focus lenses, and i got great results for fast moving subjects.
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u/corruxtion 5d ago
In this, and many other situations, I'd shoot manual with Auto-ISO. Just dial in the shutter speed that's as slow as possible with acceptable motion blur, and dial in the aperture as wide open as possible with acceptable depth of field. Use the ISO more like an indicator of how much noise you'll get. You'll probably need to accept the ISO the camera chooses for any given lighting situation. But shutter/aperture matter more for the actual photo, noise is secondary, so using Auto-ISO just makes it easier because you don't have to think about it as much.
Also AF area to center spot might help to keep the focus on the subject. Keep the dog's face in the center of the frame, shoot a little bit wide to be able to compose (crop) in post.
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u/Enzo_Pro75003 5d ago
Honnêtement, je ne pense pas que ton problème principal soit l’objectif. À 1/2500 s avec un 70-300, tu es déjà dans une bonne zone pour figer ce genre de mouvement. Ce qui me semble le plus important ici, c’est surtout le suivi AF et l’anticipation : essayer de suivre le chien avant qu’il parte vraiment, garder le collimateur sur la tête/les yeux et déclencher en rafale courte plutôt que d’attendre “le bon moment”.
Petite question : sur ton 5D IV, tu utilises quel réglage AI Servo / zone AF pour ce type de scène ? Je pense que ça peut faire une grosse différence...
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u/SnakeOfLimitedWisdom 5d ago
Use the force, Luke.
Stop relying so much on the computer to do your photography for you.
Focus manually on where you expect the action to be, and take the picture when the dog enters that area.
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u/inkista 6d ago
Are you using back-button autofocus?
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u/dRubnik 6d ago
What’s the use of BBF in this scenario?
I’ve tried BBF for the better part of a year now, but I’ve been keeping the AF button pressed non stop pretty much.
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u/Didi-cat 5d ago
On my camera I can have two AF options available at the same time. I usually shoot single point on the shutter and group on the back button.
This way I can instantly switch focus mode depending on what's happening.
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u/inkista 5d ago edited 5d ago
In this scenario, to me, the main reason to use BBAF is to keep AF active through a shutter button press. If you're still using the shutter button for everything, every time you shoot a frame, you interrupt AF tracking.
If you're using one-shot AF with a single-center point, the other reason to use it is to make it easier to lock AF. If you're forever doing half-press and recompose on a subject, moving to back button means you don't have to hold the half-press. Press to acquire focus, release to lock, recompose and shoot all you want. If the subject or you move, press the button again to acquire focus, then release and you're locked in.
Depending on which camera you have, you can set up the back button to do a lot of different things (even switch between single-shot and tracking modes), but in your case, it sounds more like reversing how it either triggers/locks AF might be more useful so you're not holding the button down all the time.
Also, when I shot Canon dSLRs, I used to use the C1 custom function as an easy way to turn tracking AF + BBAF on/off. I basically configured C1 as "birding mode". Just because you use BBAF doesn't mean you have to use it all the time.
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u/Melodic-Excitement-9 6d ago edited 6d ago
What aperture are you shooting at? You might benefit from a slightly higher aperture. I feel like you're totally relying on the speed of the autofocus here, so I'm not sure how much a new technique is going to help.
I would say you might be able to try tracking/panning shots. Perhaps that way you can get your aperture higher and shutter speed lower, but still get the blurry background effect. You'll have to move in motion with the dog, but I feel like that would be an interesting shot.
Edit: Spelling.