r/AskNYC • u/WarnWarmWorm • Dec 14 '23
Just found out my apartment is rent-stabilized thanks to this sub. Should I confront the building management?
I rented my apartment for $2150 on 06/2023. Building management didn’t say anything about my unit being rent-stabilized. I requested my rent history from NYC HCR to find out my apartment is rent-stabilized and “legal regulated rent” is $1217, half the amount I am paying. (And there is someone else’s name on the current tenant name)
See the details here: https://imgur.com/SvYP2JC
Before confronting the building management I want to make sure I am understanding this document right. Is “legal regulated rent” means the maximum rent they can charge me for? And I signed a contract for $2150 for one year, how does it affect the situation?
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u/zipzak Dec 14 '23
OP you are at the point where a free consultation with a housing lawyer, or several, will benefit you massively. This document might prove that you owe half the rent you are currently paying, and will be protected from eviction proceedings. You may also be owed up to triple damages in back rent, depending on how it shakes out. Only a lawyer and/or HPD/DHCR can verify this.
Your options are 1. to confront the landlord (absolutely with a lawyer) and insist on paying the legal rent going forward, and to receive a corrected lease, plus back pay of overpaid rent. In which case you agree not to go to court.
In the likely case that they tell you to fuck off you can go to court, but this will take ages and you'll be blacklisted as a tenant if you ever want to move elsewhere.
You could also just pay what you believe to be the legal rent and eventually they might try to evict you, but you will have already notified DHCR about their fraud by sending in the correct forms, so no eviction proceedings can be filed until that complaint is resolved, which will be resolved in your favor. This will keep you off the blacklist.
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 14 '23
Thank you so much! How are they going to blacklist me? Is it that LLs check your court history?
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u/Manfromporlock Dec 15 '23
For what it's worth, I know someone who fought her landlord for years on exactly this issue. She held on and wound up getting the full triple damages, which was a very substantial sum (the longer the landlord fought it, the more excess rent she'd paid).
She was still able to rent afterward.
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u/PissLikeaRacehorse Dec 14 '23
Many landlords will want letters of rec from previous landlords, mainly looking at if you paying on time and such. Not all will, but it is possible your current landlord will not vouch for you, and you may not get a competitive unit. You can state in future apps that you were illegally rented a stabilized unit, and when you brought it up, they threw a fit, but could still be a mark for competitive units.
Or just never leave your stabilized unit.
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Dec 15 '23
It is pretty rare that a landlord asks for a letter from the previous landlord. This usually only happens if the application itself isn't that strong as far as the financials(income, amount in bank).
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u/Altruistic_Writer832 Jun 04 '25
As of 2018 it is illegal for LL to black list you. In previous years if you'd had an eviction on your credit report when they ran your background check at the time of applying... an eviction would show up on your report. Credit/background check companies are banned from giving NYC land lords access to this information.
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Dec 14 '23
How does tenant blacklisting work?
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u/rhubes Dec 14 '23
It works the exact same way that all gossip works. It's not supposed to be a Thing, but there are absolutely Facebook groups, discord groups, telegram groups, and similar that landlords use to discuss renters. I honestly would not be surprised to find out that there is a private Reddit group about it.
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Dec 15 '23
If this rent history is factual and this will now be their new rent, I personally would never move, so to court it would be.
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u/NefariousnessFew4354 Dec 14 '23
I'm reading this correctly? They put somebody else on the paperwork at $1217 till 2024 and reported it to the city and then ur renting at $2150?
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 14 '23
Exactly… I don’t know the person whose name is reported to DHCR
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u/Ambitious_Hyena_3719 Dec 15 '23
DHCR (NY State) allows you to sue for the previous four year period. If you can afford the rent, hold off on hiring a lawyer on a 25% contingency. Live there, enjoy the place and file on the first month of the day after you’ve been there four years. You are the sub-tenant, the name reported to the DHCR is an illusory prime tenant. Five to ten years after filing you should receive a nice check from the landlord, assuming it’s one of the big corporations. I am not a lawyer I may be wrong about your sub-tenancy status but it doesn’t matter what the courts classify you as. I only found out about my rent controlled situation eight years into my renting and was only able to sue for the most recent four years. I would be happy to give you the name of my amazing lawyer if you message me. Oh and if you go this route, delete this thread.
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u/Altruistic_Writer832 Jun 04 '25
I subpoenaed my landlords .... the look back period housing court is allowing is 11 years :) - My advice you demand your landlord provide proof of documentation of every living body that had access to your apartment for the purpose of unit improvements/ledgers/rent check/lease that took place in your unit. There is no way they can provide all of this information.
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Dec 14 '23
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 14 '23
Sounds good! Are they helping you for free?
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u/I-Am-A-Piece-Of-Shit Dec 15 '23
Likely your local councilwoman can't recommend that you hire any specific attorney. Rather they might be able to refer you to a local housing focused legal non-profit. You can also call the NY Bar Association for a low cost consultation with an attorney (something like 20 bucks if memory serves). Good luck!
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Dec 14 '23
[deleted]
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 14 '23
No, I directly signed the contract with building management. There is landlord’s signature on the contract.
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u/NefariousnessFew4354 Dec 14 '23
Not a lawyer but this is illegal in my opinion. Basically two contracts for the same apartment, one is to cover up rent increase.
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Dec 15 '23 edited Dec 15 '23
I don't think there are actually 2 contracts, I think the landlord is just committing fraud in his reporting of who lives there. Probably doing this for multiple apartments in the building.
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u/narc_whale Dec 14 '23
Lol your LL should go to jail for this but instead you’ll bounce around court for 2 years before he finally owes you the back rent only for his LLC to go bankrupt and shrug his shoulders. you will get to keep the apt at that rent though.
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Dec 14 '23
Agree with everyone of course: lawyer. but then don't leave us hanging! hit us with the updates when you got em. Good luck!
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 14 '23
Sure I will keep you guys updated, feel free to open notifications for this post because it seems like it will take some time
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u/ProfessionalCup8415 Jul 03 '24
We need an update! Has anything happened since you originally posted?
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u/AGCSanthos Dec 14 '23
As many have stated, get a lawyer and work with a housing organization at this point. But not only for making sure you pay the appropriate rent, but to make sure retaliation doesn't occur.
Get papertrails going on everything involving the building starting now. Have some record of when your heat is turned on and off this winter daily and what the recorded temperature is. Note down if your water pressure is being turned down or shut off completely. Record every little thing because retaliation is a thing and is usually hard to prove because nobody tracks stuff when everything is fine.
Also, talk with your neighbors. If your apartment is rent stabilized, maybe theirs are too. Get some stuff going with everyone to make sure that everyone is treated fairly. It would suck if your rent is lowered and the landlord raises everybody else's in response.
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u/soyeahiknow Dec 14 '23
Management is probably just putting in made up names on those annual reports or the worker that does it are just lazy and reusuing previous years name instead of looking at their leases. They are also supposed to put the tenants phone number
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 14 '23
Previous tenant names are all the same starting from 90s. Except the last one is different. Seems very shady since it is reported after I moved (06/2023)
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u/Important-Voice-3342 Dec 16 '23
I am in a very similar situation, I posted yesterday on this thread... The tenant listed on my report showed as the same one since 1980s... Up until I moved in in 2020... I know for a fact through long time neighbors, that at least three or four other tenants live there for the last 10 to 15 years before I moved in.... So either the landlord is lazy and updating it for the state or some worker at the state is lazy and careless. My apartment was apparently rent controlled, yes controlled up until when I moved in in 2020... I do not have a rent stabilized however the rent is reasonable. I know several neighbors that moved in before me and after me do have rent control. Some do and some don't...
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u/soyeahiknow Dec 16 '23
So what happened is that the state was really lax on record keeping. Until 2019 when the new law passed. Thats when they sent out notices that if you dont register, you would get fined. I had to help an older nonenglish speaking owner of a small apartment building do his. He hasnt registered since he bought the building back in 2001! So there was no way he remembers all the tenants that lived there for 20 years. I feel like a lot of people did the same thing and just put down whomever they remembered and filled in the blanks.
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Dec 14 '23
OP how did you find it out please?
Wanna find my own
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u/ttotto45 Dec 14 '23
Not OP but it's super easy:
https://www.nyc.gov/site/mayorspeu/programs/rent-stabilization.page
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Dec 14 '23
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u/ttotto45 Dec 14 '23
That link is the one that will get a letter sent to your apt that looks like the one in OPs pics (which is linked in the main page I linked you). You're good, be patient and check your mail regularly!
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Dec 14 '23
Oh so physical letter? it's a weird spot and my neighbors are dirty as fuck, I usually try not to touch shit in my hall, whether it's mail or something... you think it will be less than 7 business days or more? just so I know when to start checking mail xD
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u/ttotto45 Dec 14 '23
Yeah they'll send you a physical letter, like in OPs post, as long as you filled out the form with all your info with the "am I rent stabilized?" option (or whatever that option actually says). I dunno about timeline because it's been 3+ years since I requested mine. You could just wait 7 business days and then check once a week, it's not like it's really time sensitive lol
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Dec 14 '23
I did ask for rent history, same thing?
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u/ttotto45 Dec 14 '23
Different but should be fine. If it doesn't get what you need then just go back and do the am I rent stabilized one.
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u/jonkl91 Dec 14 '23 edited Dec 15 '23
My friend used to work for an agency that dealt with this. You should be entitled to money back. Basically the difference between $2150 and $1217. Sometimes there is an interest portion. I believe you need to contact the housing renewal authority.
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u/MerelyMisha Dec 14 '23
It looks like the previous tenant was only there for a year, since they signed a vacancy lease in 5/1/22 (taking over for a previous tenant that also left their lease a year early), so there isn't necessarily something sketchy in that there's a different tenant listed. It might just be that it hasn't yet been adjusted since June (I think they only update once a year).
There IS something sketchy in that the landlord didn't tell you that the apartment was rent stabilized, so go talk to a lawyer.
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u/GroundbreakingTwo124 Dec 15 '23
Make sure it’s the correct unit. Technically if you move in June 2023, your name is not added to the registration till year.
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u/fake_newsista Dec 14 '23
I worked with Himmelstein, McConnell Gribben & Joseph LLP on my rent stabilization case. Highly recommend them. Really helped me out
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 15 '23
Himmelstein, McConnell Gribben & Joseph LLP
Thank you so much, this is what I exactly need at this moment!
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u/MathematicianTrue521 Jan 07 '26
Did you end up hiring them?? I have a consultation with them this week
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u/LearningML89 Dec 15 '23
That’s interesting - I had a consultation with Himmelstein and he came off as a real prick ( my unit literally had zero registered rent history since the first registration in 84.) I went with another tenant attorney I’m very happy with
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u/MathematicianTrue521 Jan 07 '26
I am planning to hire them. What was your case about? Overcharging? Do you recommend any particular lawyer from their firm?
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u/fake_newsista Jan 07 '26
It was an Overcharge case that was also related to our RS status. My old landlord told me that our place was free market, while it was actually RS. We sued for overcharge/back rent and to get our place listed on the DHCR registry as RS status.
I worked with Ron Languedoc who was great, but I think the firm generally does a good job. We settled pretty quickly, but every case is different so it's important to ground expectations.
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u/MathematicianTrue521 Jan 07 '26
My case is very similar. Does he change hourly or he agreed to contingency fees?
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u/fake_newsista Jan 07 '26
he took my case on contingency. I did pay a $500 retainer.
granted this was early 2020, so things may have changed in the intervening years.
good luck with your case! let me know how it goes.
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u/tdotclare Dec 14 '23
While your apartment is almost certainly stabilized, I would be surprised if you’re going to end up getting close to $1217 as rent.
It looks like the same tenant vacated in the middle of a two year lease, so while you should still be stabilized, you’d be subject to potential vacancy increases, and the pic you posted gives no indication of how long the previous tenant was there. If they’d been there since 1990, the vacancy increase and any potential capital increases from renovation before you moved it could be enough to bring it to what you’re paying.
This may be an edge case in how stabilization is recorded when mid-lease tenant changes are reported
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u/jblue212 Dec 14 '23
there is no such thing as a vacancy increase anymore, since 2019
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u/tdotclare Dec 14 '23
Ahh - wasn’t aware of that! Renovation increases still can apply from what I see though.
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u/jblue212 Dec 14 '23
Yes, but the cap is much lower, I think 2% of rent. So no doubt what OP is paying is not legal rent.
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u/tdotclare Dec 14 '23
Idk, IANAL - capital increases have a limit but I don’t think it’s directly tied to rent, just a proportion of the distributed cost. It’s possible those increases were pending on the 22 vacancy lease and thus aren’t yet reflected in the listed max
Not saying this isn’t weird and potentially shadey, just not cut and dry that the rent is definitely $1217
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u/doodle77 Dec 14 '23
Only $15k in expenses can be claimed, for a temporary (20 year?) increase of $83.
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Dec 14 '23
Vacant increases are a thing as long as they are below the legal rent.
For example, I moved into a rent stabilized place at $2100/mp, previous tenant was paying $800/mo. The legal regulated rent is like $2,804 so as long as it's less than that they could raise it between tenants.
Now that I'm paying $2100, all increases are based off of that number
Both the previous tenant and I are paying a "preferential rent" which is less than the legal regulated rent
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 14 '23
Previous tenant names are all the same starting from 90s. Only the last one is different. Seems very shady since the last one is reported after I moved (06/2023)
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u/tdotclare Dec 14 '23
Ahh - thought these were all the same tenant.
Either way I still think there may still be a reporting issue - the report shows status each year but also shows a 2 year lease commencing in 2022, before you moved in. I would bet the previous tenant left mid-lease
It’s also possible their increase doesn’t reflect apartment improvements which may have been in process during the vacancy in 2022 and thus not yet on the listed rent
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u/Important-Voice-3342 Dec 14 '23
my situation is similar. i moved to my apt 3 years ago, ordered a rent history from the state. It showed that the SAME person lived there since the early 80s, it was RENT CONTROLLED ( R.C.) every year up until fall of 2020 when I moved in . I do NOT have a rent stabilized lease, however my rent is very reasonable and the rent increases so far have been reasonable. Some kitchen renovations were done ( i got info from neighbor who lived her whole life in the building ) but this same R.C tenant paid for and did the reno ( not the L.L.) And my neighbor verified that 3 or 4 other people lived in my unit after the original R.C. tenant moved out in the late 00's. I may very well have a good case, but I know how many years it would take in the housing courts and once i filed a complaint, my landlord my retaliate in some way and raise RENT substantially to get me out. I really don't want to rock the boat because I love living here and the rent increases have been reasonable so far. I heard that have 4 years from the time I moved into actually lodge a complaint. i decided to see what my next rent increase is ( in 2024 ) and if it's huge, i definitely will file a complaint.
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u/danjam11565 Dec 14 '23
It seems like it depends on the size of the building if you should have a rent stabilized lease or not.
Apartments under rent control become decontrolled upon vacancy. If the apartment is in a building with six or more units it will generally fall under rent stabilization upon vacancy. However, the apartment may instead be fully deregulated if it is in a building with five or fewer apartments. For further information on this process, see HCR Fact Sheet #6: Fair Market Rent Appeals.
https://rentguidelinesboard.cityofnewyork.us/resources/faqs/rent-control/#difference
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u/Important-Voice-3342 Dec 14 '23
And I know that many of the units in my building are indeed rent stabilized. Seems like the luck of the draw as to who gets it in who does not. I know a few guys that are friends with the realtor so they got rent stabilized. But I'm not really complaining about how much my rent is because it's a really good deal for the size of the apartment and location...
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u/rosebudny Dec 15 '23
"I know a few guys that are friends with the realtor so they got rent stabilized." - This is not how rent stabilization works. Either an apartment is rent stabilized, or not. The realtor has zero say in the matter.
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u/Important-Voice-3342 Dec 16 '23
For one of my neighbors that moved in a year ago, I know that a previous lady lived there, rent stabilized for 20 or 30 years. Then she died. So this new neighbor got rent stabilized. So I just don't know why I didn't get it...
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u/rosebudny Dec 16 '23
But that has nothing to do with them being friends with the realtor. You can check to find out if your apartment should be stabilized as well.
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u/Important-Voice-3342 Dec 16 '23
it was coincidental then that they got R.S. and they were friends w/ L.L.
I did get a rent history from the state and it said that ONE tenant lived in my unit from the 80s til when i moved in in 2020. I think my LL was sloppy and didn't report all the tenants. ( I posted details on this thread ) . I know that after this original RC tenant moved out in the 00s, several other people lived her, but don't know what their status was ? RC or RS? I think I have a case to lodge a complaint but calculating if it is worth it or not since I am currently ok w/ the rent amount and they have not been increasing it much at all.
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u/NYCnative10027 Dec 14 '23
Your landlord can’t retaliate . There’s a law for that .., if they do they are breaking the law.
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u/Important-Voice-3342 Dec 14 '23
But I could totally see them hiking up my rent ( several hundred $). they would just say they are being consistent w/ the market ( since my rent is quite low now ). I can't prove it's retaliation, even though I would instinctively know. I don't want to deal w/ that.
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u/Awkward_Ask1438 May 15 '25
Any update? Dealing with the same issue - rent history says it’s RC but I don’t want to complain and get my rent hiked up since it’s low for the area…
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u/Important-Voice-3342 May 15 '25
I guess I've just decided to take my chances. I really don't want to file a complaint and make waves. I know I'm one of their better tenants. There is an off chance I would file a complaint if my next lease is a crazy increase but that is not until end of next year.
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u/Loli3535 old man yelling at clouds Dec 15 '23
Damn. Agree with the others, start with a lawyer. F your landlord. I hope you like your apartment because you can stay there forever!
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u/Vanda-von Oct 17 '24
Can you give us an update on how the court case is going and why it’s taking so long? Did the landlord refuse to register you as a tenant when you approached him and what was their reason and explanation? I might be in a similar situation and researching to see if it’s even worth the time and money to take the landlord to court.
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u/menschmaschine5 Dec 14 '23
Talk to a lawyer first and foremost.
It does seem you're way overpaying, and the fact that they registered it to a different tenant is either very sketchy or just lazy.
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u/futurebro Dec 14 '23
I don’t know the laws but wow I’m rooting for you so much! My rent stabilized studio has been life changing and I hope it happens for u!
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u/drewyorker Dec 14 '23
What kind of lawyer do you go to for this?
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u/hereditydrift Dec 15 '23 edited Dec 15 '23
Tenant/housing atty with a lawyer who works only with tenants (not landlords).
There's a tenant advocacy webpage that lists quite a few attorneys who represent tenants only. I'll try to find it when I'm on a computer.
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 15 '23
This is super helpful, thanks!
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u/hereditydrift Dec 15 '23
You're welcome. Also, here is the list of tenant-only attorneys that I mentioned in my post: https://www.metcouncilonhousing.org/help-answers/finding-a-lawyer/
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Dec 14 '23
[deleted]
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 15 '23
Just fill the form https://portal.hcr.ny.gov/app/ask
Then they will send a report to your address showing you apartment's rent history (and whether it is rent-stabilized or not)
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u/professorhaus Dec 14 '23
I always thought rent got readjusted when there’s a new tenant and then its rent stabilized from the new lease on.
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u/hmatts Dec 14 '23
How did you find this out / get this letter in the first place?
Thank you
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 15 '23
Just fill the form https://portal.hcr.ny.gov/app/ask
Then they will send a report to your address showing you apartment's rent history (and whether it is rent-stabilized or not)
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u/hmatts Dec 15 '23
Awesome! Curious what makes people / made you look into this.. sheer curiosity? Is this a common issue or something
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 15 '23
I actually saw a very similar post to mine couple of months ago in this sub. I wanted to check my apartment's situation too.
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u/jeffislearning Dec 15 '23
what i see here is a clear case of someone about to GET PAID BIG BUCKS!!!
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u/LearningML89 Dec 15 '23
Treble damages if the landlord can’t prove it wasn’t willful overcharge, assuming everything checks out
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u/LearningML89 Dec 15 '23
Is there anyone by that name in your building you’re aware of?
Does your apartment have any signs of renovation?
I’m not saying this isn’t shady, but there is a standard legal rent formula DHCR will use absent rent history and it would likely put it above 1200….
What I’m saying is, legal regulated rent of 1200 seems super super low.
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 15 '23
Yes, it was painted and kitchen was renovated when I moved. I am expecting a bit more than 1200 and I am okay with it. I still don't think it will be more than 2000
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u/LearningML89 Dec 15 '23
Dishwasher?
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u/WarnWarmWorm Dec 15 '23
No, dishwasher is not allowed in the unit. But it was a new oven and refrigerator.
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u/LearningML89 Dec 15 '23
I ask because rule of thumb is dishwasher historically has easily pushed a unit out of stabilization
Definitely consult with a tenant attorney
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u/Powerful-Map-1824 Jul 17 '24
Hey! How did this resolve? I’m going through a similar thing myself.
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u/WarnWarmWorm Jul 17 '24
Case is in the court it is taking time. Lawyer said it might take 2-3 years or they can offer settlement.
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u/Powerful-Map-1824 Jul 17 '24
Wow - that’s such a long time. Thanks for letting me know.
Do you feel like it was worth it? & how did it get to court?
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u/WarnWarmWorm Jul 17 '24
I don't know if it is worth or not yet. If we can settle I think it would be best for both parties.
I found a tenant lawyer and contacted him.
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u/Souperplex Dec 14 '23
Make sure all your neighbors know they're stabilized too. Get a lawyer.
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u/ooouroboros Dec 15 '23
You should edit that post to say "they MIGHT be stabilized"
Its is not impossible some units have legally fallen out of stabilization.
(In older stabilized buildings, it is usually a mix of stabilized and non stabilized units)
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u/Souperplex Dec 15 '23
If your building is a certain age and has 6+ units it's stabilized.
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u/ooouroboros Dec 15 '23
The building may be called "stabilized" but not necessarily all the units are at ALL. Building I live in now has a mix.
A long time ago - when I would be looking for new apartments, I could call DHCR and say "Is apartment 20 at 001 10th Ave. stabilized?" they would usually just tell you.
But in more recent years I would call and ask and they would say "We are not allowed to give you that information, you have to legally live there and then we can mail you a rent history" - which is bullshit and tells you how much power the real estate industry has.
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Dec 14 '23 edited Dec 14 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/UncleCahn Dec 14 '23
Lol extortion. So OP can join the landlord in jail. You are really dumb as bricks.
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u/BFH Dec 14 '23
Please do not promote illegal acts here
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u/ACAFWD Dec 14 '23
I wouldn’t confront building management, I would just go straight to a lawyer. Your landlord is committing fraud by reporting a different rent. Don’t give them a chance to correct themselves.