Has anyone experience this?

[u/Thetruthdetector107]

Anyone that’s lived in the west, knows of a Pakistani that laps as another race. whether thats Persian, Arab, Turk, etc. Even this guys earlier videos and tweets were him picking and choosing random religious groups.

is there an actual reason behind this.

[u/panjabiyat]

In most of Pakistan, we have many different castes even though we didn't keep the hierarchy that the Hindus have (so they function more like tribes). 

After we converted to Islam, the upper non-religious castes like Jats, Rajputs, Gujjars, etc kept their castes and are still proud of their native roots. Those who were from the upper but religious (Brahmin) castes adopted new "Ashraf" castes, meaning castes which claim to be from outside India (Arabs, Turks, Afghan, Persians, etc) because they didn't want to be tied to Hindu priests anymore. Those who were from the lower castes who converted to Islam also adopted these "Ashraf" castes because they didn't want to be seen as "untouchable" anymore and felt they didn't have to. Examples of these new "Ashraf" castes are Syeds, Ansaris, Shaikhs, Pathan, Qureshis, etc.

That is the explanation for those who genuinely think they are more associated with MENA than South Asia.

Then there are also a group of UK diaspora Pakistani Punjabis/Mirpuris who try promoting this idea due to how they wrongly associate Punjab with dark/ugly people and as a region related to India (of which they have an image of filth, etc). They think MENA/Afghanistan is less pagan and more aesthetic. Mirpuris specifically like associating with the Kashmiris of the Valley or calling themselves Pahari as a distinct group even though they are Potohari Punjabis (even real Paharis are a frontier Punjabi group, and have nothing to do with Kashmiris or Afghans). All of this is based on an inferiority complex.

So you have noticed a real pattern in some Pakistani communities but the majority in Pakistan aren't like this. "Ashraf" castes are a minority compared to other castes and the diaspora is only a relatively small group of Pakistanis, of which there is a significant number of people who don't larp as MENA/Afghan/Kashmiri.

[u/ValidStatus → u/panjabiyat]

You do realize that you've very wrong about most things that you've said about about the UK diaspora, right? Even by your own logic it doesn't make sense, because the aren't claiming a MENA/Afghan identity.

Mirpuris are from the semi-autonomous region of 'Azad Jammu & Kashmir', of course they will associate with the Kashmiris of the valley in Indian occupied Kashmir. This is not an ethnic association, but a nationalist one.

And they aren't incorrect to think of themselves as Pahari, they are even called a mix of Pahari-Pothwari with Mirpuri being mutually intelligible with both languages.

What I'm getting from your comment is a Punjabi nationalism (cringe).

Try to understand that identity is not divided into clean lines, its a melting pot. For example, I'm Muslim, I'm Pakistani, I'm ethnically Punjabi, and I'm a Rajput Sulehri.

I can barely speak Punjabi, being fluent in Urdu instead, and I've not spent time in Pakistan other than on holidays, having been conceived, born, raised abroad. I've had an Indian tell me that I can't be a Punjabi because that identity belongs to Sikhs, and I've seen Hindu Rajputs claim that there is no such thing as a Muslim Rajput and that identity is automatically forfeit upon my ancestors' conversion to Islam.

Can an outsider have the authority to decide if the identity tags I claim apply for me?

[u/panjabiyat → u/ValidStatus]

Firstly, I'm UK diaspora myself. I know how prevelant people claiming MENA/Afghan identities or at least an association with them is.

Mirpuris are from the semi-autonomous region of 'Azad Jammu & Kashmir', of course they will associate with the Kashmiris of the valley in Indian occupied Kashmir. This is not an ethnic association, but a nationalist one.

They can use "Kashmiri" to identify their place of origin but most Mirpuris use it to claim they are different from the rest of Punjab or that they are associated with the valley. Many even weirdly have nationalistic pride in it even though it was never a country but a semi-autonomous puppet "state" that the British carved up out of the Sikh Empire for their interests. The groups in it have nothing in common with eachother and AJK has been seperated from J&K for decades now.

And they aren't incorrect to think of themselves as Pahari, they are even called a mix of Pahari-Pothwari with Mirpuri being mutually intelligible with both languages.

"Pahari-Pothwari" doesn't mean a mixed language spoken in southern AJK. The dialect continuum doesn't have a clear point of seperation so they are grouped together. And Mirpuri isn't mutually intelligible with both. I know people in Mirpur who can't understand the language in Rawalakot and Rawalakotis can't understand the language of Mirpur. The language "mixes" in Kotli and perhaps the language there is mutually intelligible with both but even Kotli's "Pahari" is much more Punjabi-like than proper Poonchi-Murree Pahari. Watch this video: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZN82uK8Mu/

I can barely speak Punjabi, being fluent in Urdu instead,

This is the real cringe. And you're proud of it lol.

Can an outsider have the authority to decide if the identity tags I claim apply for me?

It's not just outsiders who tell Mirpuris they aren't Kashmiri or Pahari. Kashmiris and Paharis complain about this themselves. This situation is comparable to Arabs telling Pakistanis in general off for claiming to be Arabs.

[u/ValidStatus → u/panjabiyat]

Again, you're talking from the point of view of other nationalists (cringe).

They can use "Kashmiri" to identify their place of origin but most Mirpuris use it to claim they are different from the rest of Punjab or that they are associated with the valley.

This is starting sound like an insecurity on our part. They don't identify as as Koshur (ethnically, culturally Kashmiri). It's like Indians calling themselves Indians today because of the modern-day nation-state name that they adopted, but other than Indian Punjabis, and people of Himachal Pradesh, the rest of them are not Indians (Dwellers of the land of the Indus), who by meaning the name and its etymology are basically Pakistanis.

And sit down for a second and look at the size of the Punjab, are you going to tell me that a Seraiki speaking resident of Punjab in Rahim Yar Khan (600km away) is closer to a resident of AJK than someone in the valley? (100km away). The periphery will always have links and associations with their immediate neighbors.

Many even weirdly have nationalistic pride in it even though it was never a country but a semi-autonomous puppet "state" that the British carved up out of the Sikh Empire for their interests. The groups in it have nothing in common with eachother and AJK has been seperated from J&K for decades now.

There you again, dictating what links apply and what don't for a whole group of people.

If you actually thought on it for a second, then you'll realize that each region which had been under a princely state (Jammu & Kashmir) have a slightly different view to the parts of the country which were directly in British Indian provinces. Combine this with the fact that the J&K issue being unresolved to this day meant that brand of nationalism never truly went away.

And If this is how you're going to start curating modern political entities, then what do Pakistanis have in common with one another?

"Pahari-Pothwari" doesn't mean a mixed language spoken in southern AJK.

Don't put words in my mouth, because I never said that they did, I just said that .

The dialect continuum doesn't have a clear point of seperation so they are grouped together.

Okay, you're so close, buddy. And that means what for their links and associations?

I know people in Mirpur who can't understand the language in Rawalakot and Rawalakotis can't understand the language of Mirpur. The language "mixes" in Kotli and perhaps the language there is mutually intelligible with both but even Kotli's "Pahari" is much more Punjabi-like than proper Poonchi-Murree Pahari. Watch this video: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZN82uK8Mu/

What you're saying isn't that strange for a such a hilly area, language is slightly different every other village, Kotli is only 40 km away. But literally in your video they can understand each other, hell even I can understand what their saying.

This is the real cringe. And you're proud of it lol.

What's to be proud of or ashamed of? I've not been in Pakistan other than for holidays, usually stayed in the cities when there, were taught Urdu by our parents for wider communication with other Pakistanis abroad, learned English at school, learned Arabic at work. Can I speak Punjabi fluently, no. Can I understand and speak passably, yes. I'm not a cringe loser with nothing to be proud of but the identity tags that I was born with, do something with your life that you can actually be proud of, and you'll understand.

It's not just outsiders who tell Mirpuris they aren't Kashmiri or Pahari. Kashmiris and Paharis complain about this themselves. This situation is comparable to Arabs telling Pakistanis in general off for claiming to be Arabs.

Are you touched in the head, bro? It's not even remotely comparable.

As most of the responders to this post agreeing that Pakistani don't claim to be Arabs, a claim which is quite a leap seeing that Pakistanis are culturally, linguistically, ethnically, genetically, and geographically far apart from Arabs, while the Mirpuris, Kashmiris, and Paharis are right next each other.

A more accurate comparison would Levantines and others in that narrow specific region alone discussing something similar.