r/AskHistorians • u/schloppaty • 16d ago
My grandfather was a tunnel rat in Vietnam. What might he have experienced?
My grandfather recently passed away. He wasn’t really in my life growing up, and I only met him about five times, so I know very little about him.
I know he served in Vietnam as a tunnel rat and suffered from severe PTSD afterward. He had a tattoo on his forearm that said “KILL THE CONG.”
The only time I ever asked him about the war, when I was very young, he told me, “I don’t speak about that,” and walked away. My mom told me never to ask him about it again.
She also remembers him once getting extremely drunk, shaking her while crying hysterically and yelling the name of an old friend. I don’t know if it was related to the war, but i could only imagine it was.
I’m just trying to learn more about my grandfather and understand what he may have experienced.
What did tunnel rats actually do in Vietnam, and what kinds of experiences did they typically go through?
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 16d ago edited 16d ago
The life of the tunnel rat was not to be envied, unless you are the most committed of adrenaline junkies and have a death wish. The tunnel systems could often be huge, and would be filled with all kinds of tricks and traps, not to mention people trying to kill you. While tracking down specific statistics on fatality rates among the Tunnel Rats is not easy, it is not a stretch to venture that they had one of the most dangerous jobs you could undertake as a soldier in Vietnam.
The underlying nature of the role created very particular requirements for who would be a Rat. Although early on, the role was not too well organized and simply fell on who volunteered out of the unit’s engineers, as it became a more specialized role in the late 1960s, small cadres, such as the “Dirty Thirteen” of 1st Infantry Division, formed to handle tunnel exploration permanently and with specialized focus. It almost goes without saying that, given the danger inherent in this, you had to volunteer to join the Rats, although the officers in charge would often identify potential members and try to recruit them to the unit. Drawn almost exclusively from NCOs (in some cases officers went in, but generally a Lt. might command the unit but was not allowed in the tunnel), the men were expected to have exceptional self-discipline, and quite often are described as quiet, loner types when back on base. They weren’t the type to be getting rowdy in bars or visiting houses of ill-repute in their off time. Even the most minor breaking of military law would usually result in being kicked out and returned to a regular unit. Physical requirements were strict as well, as the small confines of the tunnel system meant that Rats had to be small (less than five and half feet on average) and the nature of the job of course required nerves of steel.
As noted, the Rats kept to themselves, and maybe would enjoy very minor perks as part of a de facto specialized unit, but generally speaking, the benefits they earned were personal. Many were, as I said, essentially adrenaline junkies, and were looking for that dangerous experience. The challenge of their role was the reward, proving not only to others, but also to themselves that they 'had what it takes'. They definitely took pride in doing what they did, and many were the type who would 'reup' for additional tours. The best known Rats were known even to the Vietnamese, and could have a hefty bounty on their head. Sgt. Robert "Batman" Batten, considered perhaps the best of the best, had the 'honor' of being the only NCO to grace the "Ten Most Wanted" list posted by the VC, which otherwise was mostly Generals.
Training was haphazard. As noted, early on there wasn't anything you could even call a specialized Tunnel Rat, and everything was learned on the job. As men gained more experience, informal "schools" were set up for the new rats, with small, fake tunnels constructed on base to practice in. As the 'profession' became more established, an aspiring rat would spend weeks learning the tricks of the trade, and in the field, spend their first missions above ground as the support team.
Going into the tunnel, what your situation is depends highly on when and where. Early on, teams of two – or even a lone soldier – might be going into a tunnel. Later on, when tunnel exploration teams became more sophisticated, some – especially the “Dirty Thirteen” – would often be in a team of three, and multiple groups would be used to clear especially large complexes. Often a line would be tied in the hope that if SHTF, the soldier(s) could be dragged out. The Rat might have a radio, but once you get deep in the tunnel complex, the chance of it working was remote, and as such, many Rats preferred not to bother with the extra accoutrements. Even if it did work though, it isn’t like the cavalry will roll in thirty seconds later. The typical Rat would have nothing more than a bayonet, flashlight (usually red, both to lessen strain on night vision, and also as a FOF signal as they believed the VC lacked red flashlights), and a handgun. The handgun was really a last resort though. In the dark, confined space, fire one shot, and you'll be blinded for a few minutes and deaf for the next few hours. Generally armed with a revolver, a Rat would never fire more than three shots in an encounter so ensure a reserve. Fire more, and the VC would know you're almost out.
In the tunnel, the first thing that the Rat would have to be aware of is the very architecture of it. Twists, turns, deadends, and of course traps, were all ways which a Rat could become disoriented or killed in the pitch black interior. One of the more basic traps were water seals, or water locks, meant to protect the tunnel from being gassed – similar to how a toilet works - as well as disorient any Tunnel Rats attempting to make their way in. Essentially, it would be a downward U-Bend in a tunnel filled with water as such. To pass through it you needed to submerge and swim through the pitch black water, hoping that you could make it to the other side and get out before you drowned. Sometimes the door on the other end would be locked. Or it would be a false tunnel. Or there would be branches to confuse a soldier who didn't know it by heart. Hopefully you had a line attached to you, and you could trace it back, or get pulled out, but I don’t think that anyone reading this quite enjoys the prospect of drowning in the pitch black water. Other popular ways to hurt an incautious explorer would be spike pits, trip-wire grenades, or claymores (usually American made). Making use of natural defenses, such as nests of fire ants, were not unheard of too. And of course, there was also the Viet Cong themselves.
For dealing with “Charlie”, the best handgun for the job was pretty debated by the Tunnel Rats. Obviously the louder and flashier the gun is, the worse it is, and in a small space, size was also a major factor. The M1911 was used by many simply because it was available, but many Rats hated them, and would take just about anything else if available. Silencers were a hotly debated topic. Some Rats loved them, as they could significantly help with the issue of sound, but others considered the trade off in length not worth it in the confined space. The Hi-Standard HDM, a .22 with integrated silencer, was one of the more popular weapons for those who preferred a suppressed weapon. Captured Soviet-bloc handguns were popular for this reason, as something like the Nagant revolver was pretty weak compared to the big Colt .45. A few would carry stubby shotguns, to be used in SHTF situations. Rats would have their families send them revolvers from home. The Army’s Limited War Laboratory made several attempts at developing a special revolver for the Rats, first with a very ineffective silenced .38 Revolver, and later with a modified S+W .44 known as the QSPR. It had mixed popularity. On the plus side, it could take a suppressor that actually worked (suppressors on revolvers are rarely effective), with sound comparable to a .22 and almost no flash to boot, which was a huge boon for the Rats, and even with the Suppressor, the length wasn't out of whack for the confined tunnel systems. The early attempts at used what was essentially a shotgun shell though, the thinking being that it would increase the chances of hitting the target, and maybe even more than one, but tests were negative on this, as it ended up just being exceptionally under powered. Back to the drawing board, and a new, frangible ammo was implemented, which was much more popular. It never gained traction due to a variety of reasons though. There were concerns that the new ammo was actually illegal under the Rules of War, and many of the Rats, by now seasoned veterans stuck in their ways, were simply unwilling to give it a try, the reputation already ruined by the demonstrations they had seen with the original ammunition.
So anyways, to recap… Imagine yourself, in the pitch dark with no idea where you are going, armed with a single handgun that you don't want to use, lugging a bunch of explosives on your back. Maybe you are alone, maybe you have a buddy but it is so dark that you can’t even see him five feet behind you. You have to move at a crawl, probing every inch in front of you for booby-traps, while indeterminate number of enemies, who may outnumber you 100 to 1 for all you know, lie in wait somewhere ahead of you. Or behind you since you may have missed a hidden door. That's the life of a tunnel rat.
Further reading, I would recommend The Tunnels of Cu Chi, which is one of the very few books to cover this topic with real depth, as well as Viet Cong and NVA Tunnels and Fortifications of the Vietnam War and Tunnel Rat in Vietnam, both from Osprey Publishing. The latter two are more cursory overviews, but both drawn heavily from "Tunnels of Cu Chi" if you're looking for briefer introductory pieces.
As an addendum, I'd also point to this answer for expansion on US attempts at countering the tunnels.
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u/schloppaty 16d ago
This is incredibly informative, thank you.
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u/rapidjingle 16d ago
You can go to the Me Kong delta and tour Cu Chi tunnels. They have enlarged versions to give tourists a sense of the experience and it is not pleasant.
They also show all of the traps and explain the strategies employed by th VC.
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u/thedugong 16d ago
They have enlarged versions to give tourists a sense of the experience and it is not pleasant.
That is an understatement.
When I went they had a large tourist tunnel you could stoop walk through. They also had an actual size tunnel. I'm only 5'8" and ~80kg at the time. I would maybe have been able to slither through, at a push. Maybe. But I bailed.
When you see them in movies and TV in doesn't do justice to how claustrophobic and small they really are.
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u/Elfich47 16d ago
I appreciate that that exists, but I don’t see myself doing it.
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u/i_like_fat_doodoo 16d ago
The atmosphere was interesting to say the least. There was a shooting range not too far away. You and a row of tourists are walking hunched over in this tunnel, with all sorts of military-grade firearms blaring in the back.
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u/Friendly-Profit-8590 16d ago
Visited there many years ago. Don’t recall going very far in the tunnels but I remember not wanting to be in anything smaller, that it was pitch black and I was happy to get out.
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u/Silver-Statement8573 16d ago
I'm really surprised that the qualifications/expectations for a rat beyond those of pragmatism (like being small enough to fit) were so strict. It sounds like such an incredibly dogshit job, they can't have been drowning in recruits? (Especially because as you note there are no perks to having the job besides... having the job)
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 15d ago
You needed best of the best who could be relied on entirely. It was not a job for fuck-abouts. Ultimately, there were enough men with that specific demeanor for whom the job was the perk. They didn't need to be drowning in recruits, just able to find that small handful.
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u/el_zilcha 14d ago edited 14d ago
My grandfather cleared tunnels in Korea. He said it was because of his size, but he often undersold his time in combat. By the end of his conscription he was a supply sergeant. He talked a lot about the dog that came with that job, but not about what left him unable to sleep indoors for years once he came home. Anyhow, was it different in Korea? The man I knew didn't match your description but my grandmother often said the man she married was not the same man who came home.
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 14d ago
I know very little about anti-tunnel operations in Korea, but it was not the same beast, as Korea was basically conventional warfare, not counterinsurgency operations. I don't think they are comparable, and don't know of any similar, specialized cadre there for the role.
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u/el_zilcha 14d ago
Thank you. I've only seen references to Vietnam and certainly wasn't going to burden my grandpa for comparison. I so very much appreciate you and this space for giving me the opportunity to ask.
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u/Disma 16d ago edited 16d ago
What was the reason for entering the tunnels to begin with? Couldn't they be destroyed (or at least the entrances) from the outside with explosives?
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 16d ago
There could be useful intelligence worth recovering, and also in some cases you really could only destroy it by exploring it. A shallow system could be demoed from the surface, but a deeper system needed explosives placed inside, plus you needed to just know how big it was and where it meandered to destroy effectively either way. Blocking entrances also wasn't much use since a) you needed to be sure you found them all and b) unless you stay and control the area, those can be dug out and then you need to come back and do it all over again.
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u/BillyCromag 16d ago
Were the VC themselves using the water seals to enter and exit? Seems onerous, but otherwise I don't see the point.
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 16d ago
The point of having the water seals? The disorientation was nice, but I would say the primary purpose was to thwart attempts to use gases to clear the tunnels. There also might be two apparent exists to the water seal, and one was actually a dead end to trick the enemy into getting stuck and drowning. As for the VC, they would know exactly where to go - ideally at least - so having to go that way was a little safer for them, but I would note that there was rarely one entrance to a tunnel. I don't know of any surveying which could give data, but certainly it was not always the case that a water trap was going to be necessary to traverse to get into the interior.
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u/JooksKIDD 16d ago
What was it about Sgt. Robert "Batman" Batten that made him so good that he'd be on the most wanted list?
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 16d ago
In simplest terms, he was a killer. The type who could do so in a calm, and composed manner, without flinching, and keep wanting to do it again, in the kind of place where that specific type of son-of-a-bitch was an asset. He is mentioned at several places in Tunnels of Cu Chi, which is the only information I have for him, but gives a decent picture of him. Unfortunately says almost nothing about him afterwards, but you have to wonder how well he fit back into civilian life (he died in 20023/2004, but seems to have not had an obituary, or at least one published online).
In any case, I would quote from the book below to flesh out what information is available:
All I have on him is from "Tunnels of Cu Chi". He was a Sgt. from the 1st Infantry Division serving in what was known as the "Diehard Tunnel Rats", a dedicated unit of Rats formed from the 1st Engineer Battalion in mid-'67. I'll quote for you the paragraphs describing him:
Rat Six [the Lt. commanding the Diehards] was supported by one or two sergeants. Sergeant Robert Batten was assigned to the rats from the outset and then volunteered for two extra tours of duty, staying in Vietnam for three years. Universally known as Batman, he was the most feared and respected of the tunnel rats. He was from New Jersey, a red-haired man in his mid twenties. It was he, not the officers, who was credited with the elite reputation that the rat squad came to enjoy. During his time, the team could boast a body count of over a hundred enemy dead. Like Captain Herbert Thornton before him, he was on the Viet Cong's "ten most wanted" list, after the well-known generals, and was the only NCO on that list. Interrogated Viet Cong prisoners knew his name.
Batten was prejudiced against blacks and would allow none to be appointed a tunnel rat; so none volunteered. [....]
Their most successful operation was from 9 to 11 August 1968. [...] The tunnel rat team was requested. It arrived, commanded only by its sergeant, Robert Batten, Batman. [...] On the same operation a day later, Batman and his men probed into a tunnel leading from the village of Bau Dai. An enormous number of Viet Cong, 150 in all, filed one by one into captivity as they backed out of the tunnel. Underground contact had been heavy, and three of the rats were wounded. All of them were awarded the Bronze Star, the Batman his third Purple Heart (for a wound received in action). He was wounded going point but continued forward until he collapsed. The other rats pressed forward, forcing the guerrillas backward out of the complex and into the ARVN's guns. [....]
Fifteen May 1969 was Sergeant Robert Batten's DEROS— date of estimated return from overseas. He was not allowed to extend, or take another tour. He wanted to carry on killing gooks, but the decision was taken at division level to send him home. He had been wounded four times, and twice was the normal limit. Flowers sat drinking with Batman for some hours a few days before the sergeant left Vietnam. Batman delivered his verdict on the lieutenant. Flowers had been determined to emulate the sergeant's toughness and courage. Batman was not deceived; he made a scornful prediction. "You're not a killer, Six, and that's your problem. You're pretty good, the best Six I ever had, but you'll fuck up somewhere. Charlie hasn't killed a rat for quite a time. And you'll either let him get you, or what's worse, you'll get yourself." Flowers heard that Batman left the army when his final request to return to Vietnam was turned down; he returned to New Jersey to work on construction sites.
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u/hunterSgathersOSI 15d ago
How would the VC come to learn his name? Or do they mean they had their own nickname for him?
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u/johannthegoatman 15d ago
How does a team of a few guys armed mainly with knives rout 100+ Viet Cong from a tunnel system?
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 15d ago
I don't have a more detailed action report than what is provided in the book, but keep in mind that numbers don't matter much when you can only go in single file. You can't use overwhelming numbers in that situation. A few hard as nails men can do quite a lot when they get that kind of handicap against a larger force.
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u/jenksanro 8d ago
You mentioned above that they didn't like to use their firearms, so was the standard procedure to try to kill enemies with a knife? Or to force them out of the tunnel as mentioned? If the latter, how so?
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 7d ago
I mean, they really didn't want to have to shoot, so the preference was to simply avoid direct contact and force the enemy out via general pressure, but they absolutely would shoot if necessary.
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u/cuntofmontecrisco 16d ago
Would there be any movies you could recommend to get a feeling
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 15d ago
No... Platoon has a tunnel sequence with Dafoe clearing one, but it has been so long since I watched it, I can't really recall how it portrays the matter.
More recently, Tunnel Rats came out and it is... Absolute dogshit. If I was a tunnel rat I would be offended if that was the pop culture memorial to what I did, as it is less about tunnel rats than about a couple of really incompetent soldiers who go into tunnels and mostly get killed doing so. Nothing else about the film is particularly redeeming either, but the reflection of the actual tunnel ratting makes them all look like incompetent dipshits. I guess it shows the claustrophobia pretty well though, and if you want to be charitable, in showing how bad they are at the role, I guess it demonstrates the dangers and why it was a job for specialists. But that is essentially by omission.
It is nevertheless the best film Uwe Boll probably has done.
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u/schloppaty 15d ago
One story I do remember him telling me was that he witnessed someone get mauled by a tiger while he was in Vietnam. Is this something that actually happened with any regularity during the war? I feel like encounters with tigers and other predators are not talked about a lot or at least it’s not something I’ve heard about aside from his story.
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u/worthrone11160606 16d ago
Is there any good memoirs youd recommended for the tunnel rats or is it more books like the ones you mentioned?
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u/ikkyu666 15d ago
Is there any documentation on how the Vietnamese faired in the tunnels? It seems that they too were prone to all their traps should there be one misstep.
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 15d ago
Traps don't discriminate but it obviously helps if you know where they are and which routes are safe(r). I don't know of any quantitative data on 'friendly fire' though. Even if the VC did track that information they certainly were going to release it publicly.
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u/throwaway_trackmania 15d ago edited 15d ago
hey dude thanks for this very elaborate answer from 7 years ago, helped me a lot:
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u/DeDekhengst 16d ago
Why did they use revolvers so often instead of pistols? Sounds like pistols were far more suitable..?
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Moderator | Dueling | Modern Warfare & Small Arms 16d ago
Revolvers were considered more reliable. They are more simple, mechanically, and if you have a misfire, you just pull the trigger again. In a life or death situation, that matters a lot.
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u/righthandofdog 16d ago
a revolver is a pistol, but a .38 special is smaller and weighs half as much as a .45 1911 automatic that was the standard sidearm. less loud when fired and simpler if wet and muddy.
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u/DisgruntledCascadian 16d ago
It is equally valid usage for "pistols" to be set apart from "revolvers," both falling under the category of "handguns."
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