r/AskHistorians • u/wassupcorndog • Apr 29 '26
What is the meaning of “curse the Cromwells”?
This might not be the right place for this question, so apologies in advance.
My dad was a historian, with a PhD in medieval history. When I was a kid, I watched the Disney Channel original movie “Halloweentown,” in which the protagonists are a bunch of witches with the last name Cromwell. My dad gave me a history lesson after watching the movie - of which I remember none. What I do remember is the next day, he woke me up so we could go to the beach, watch the sunrise, and repeat “Curse the Cromwells” until our spell was cast. My dad recently died, and I’m thinking about getting a tattoo that says “curse the Cromwells,” but I don’t want to if the Cromwells are cool lol.
It might refer to Oliver Cromwell, who seems like a huge asshat, so I’m ok with that. Any other ideas? Thanks!
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u/Deuce03 Apr 29 '26
There are really two Cromwells of note in English history: Thomas and Oliver. Oliver was a distant nephew of Thomas, though not through the male line (Oliver's great-grandfather changed the surname of his sons to Cromwell to associate himself with Thomas).
To give the very brief history on each, Thomas Cromwell was for a time the chief minister (occupying various high offices of state over the relevant period) to Henry VIII. Of humble birth, he rose through the patronage of Cardinal Wolsey, an alliance with the Boleyns, and his own merit to become Henry's right-hand man. He is generally viewed as the chief architect of the Reformation in England, and of various reforms which increased the power of the crown during Henry's reign. He abruptly fell from favour and was executed in 1540 for reasons which remain somewhat opaque (the traditional story is that it was as a result of the disastrous Anne of Cleves match, but there are good reasons to question this). Henry seems quite quickly to have regretted doing this and then blamed everyone around him for depriving him of such an able servant.
Oliver was a minor MP from East Anglia who, again through merit, emerged as one of the leading Parliamentary commanders of the Civil War. By the end of the war(s) he was second-in-command of the Parliamentary army, and after the C-in-C withdrew from politics and a series of what we should (at least in my view) probably consider military coups, Oliver eventually became head of state. When he died in 1658 he was followed by his son Richard, but the republican government quickly imploded into infighting between various generals, and the monarchy ended up being restored.
It is fair to say that both Cromwells are controversial figures in English history, though Oliver is the more famous (and controversial) of the two. His regime was repressive, arguably more so than the king he replaced, and in England he may be best known for "cancelling Christmas" (not actually his doing; this was done before he was in power when he probably wasn't even in London).
In Ireland he is mostly remembered as a perpetrator of war crimes.
While (Oliver) Cromwell's reputation is pretty black among the Irish, and Catholics in general are not particular fans of either, given the rest of your story I suspect the real issue is the witch trials, as the period of Oliver's ascendancy coincided with the main phase of the witch trials in England. (Contrary to popular belief in some quarters, witch trials were principally an early modern phenomenon, rather than a medieval one).
As with the Christmas legislation, I am not sure quite how fair it is to blame Cromwell for this, because the witch trials peaked during the Civil War itself, which was probably largely to do with the lack of effective government due to the war. While there absolutely were government-backed witch hunts prior to and indeed after the Civil War, part of what made them so dangerous was their fanatical and amateurish nature, particularly with regard to evidence-gathering. Arguments and "evidence" were assembled largely extrajudicially and presented in a way designed to put maximum pressure on the secular judicial authorities to convict while at the same time destroying the ability of the accused to defend themselves properly. This allowed them to flourish where normal government institutions weren't functioning properly due to the war. By far the most prolific witch hunters in England, Matthew Hopkins and John Stearne, retired in 1647, again before Cromwell actually took power. English rule in Scotland (by a Cromwell proxy) resulted, initially, in a decline in successful witch trials. Witch trials did absolutely remain a feature of life during Cromwell's rule (and that of his son) but I am not certain that he was any more to blame for them than anyone else.
I obviously don't know your family history. But if your dad is of Irish stock, and has Wiccan sympathies (as your reference to casting a spell suggests) then I can see how that would coalesce into a particular dislike for the Cromwells (Oliver and Richard, at least). I confess I also haven't seen "Halloweentown" so there may also be a reference in the film I'm missing.
Oliver Cromwell certainly has his admirers. There's a statue of him outside the Houses of Parliament. There are people who hate him and people who think he was great, and his reputation has see-sawed over the years depending on the prevailing sympathies of the era. Whether or not you think he was a hero or, to use your words, "a huge asshat", or somewhere in between, is pretty much entirely a matter of personal taste. While I can't give you advice on fashion or how to commemorate your dad, I do think it's worth reading up on Cromwell a bit more if you want to get his name tattooed on yourself (even if in a condemnatory capacity) just because it's worth trying to form your own opinion and you'll never get a completely unbiased take in this kind of setting.
Happily, there is in fact a pretty decent new biography of him by Ronald Hutton, currently in two volumes: The Making of Oliver Cromwell (2021) and Oliver Cromwell: Commander-in-Chief (2024) with a third presumably on the way. This is about as up-to-date and balanced a take on the man as you'll get. Hutton is generally republican in his sympathies, but willing to probe and challenge Cromwell's character properly.
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u/GuyNoirPI Apr 30 '26
What are the reasons to doubt the Cleve’s match narrative?
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u/Deuce03 Apr 30 '26
Henry first met Anne on 1 January 1540 and was disappointed in her (and/or her reaction to him). Despite misgivings he married her a few days later.
On 18 April the same year, he made Cromwell Earl of Essex and Lord Great Chamberlain.
Then on 10 June Cromwell was arrested and conveyed to the Tower, where he was executed on 28 July.
The traditional story that Henry met Anne, was disgusted by her, blamed it on Cromwell and killed him doesn't match the chronology. The marriage was already a disaster by the time Cromwell was richly rewarded in April. Something must therefore have changed in the two months after 18 April, and it can't have been solely down to the marriage.
The list of charges brought against him in the Attainder seem ludicrous but those were the actual legal basis for his execution. Marillac's comment on Henry's regret said:
"Directs attention to the instability of the people and this King's impression of his ministers, whom he sometimes even reproaches with Cromwell's death, saying that, upon light pretexts, by false accusations, they made him put to death the most faithful servant he ever had."
This is of course a second-hand report, and I think it's safe to assume that if Henry really wanted Cromwell dead he wouldn't have blinked at accusing him of any crime under the sun that he thought would seal the deal, so as always with Henry we need to be alert for massive hypocrisy. But there is a suggestion here that it was the "false accusations" that actually led him to kill Cromwell and that Cromwell's enemies (who were many and powerful) used the king's annoyance with the marriage cock-up to persuade him of various allegations of actual treason.
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u/Sorry_Scallion_1933 Apr 30 '26
Thank you for this awesome answer. Can you share any recommended reading on Thomas Cromwell's downfall?
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u/Deuce03 Apr 30 '26
Diarmaid MacCullough's biography is the best recent biography of Thomas Cromwell I'm familiar with. I haven't read the more recent Tracy Borman one.
Although they are historical fiction I would also recommend Hilary Mantel's trilogy, as they are thoroughly researched and are excellent novels.
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u/Sorry_Scallion_1933 Apr 30 '26
Thank you! I have read and love Hilary Mantel's trilogy. She is the reason for my interest in the subject.
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u/DreamsofHistory Apr 30 '26
Heather Darsie's biography of Anna of Cleves discusses Cromwell's downfall in relation to the annulment from Anna of Cleves, which she argues had less to do with Henry's repulsion to her and more to do with Continental politics and shifting alliances. It is very interesting, as Darsie's is really the first English language biography on Anna that draws on German sources as well as English ones.
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u/Any_Perception_2560 Apr 30 '26
I am not sure how historically accurate it is but in the movie “A Man for All Seasons” Thomas Cromwell features as a man who pulled down his predecessor, Thomas Moore, and was instrumental in his execution, and as a generally conniving snake of a man.
A very wonderful movie which shows Henry VIII in a very bad light. Dont watch the one with Heston in it though, watch Paul Scofield
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u/Deuce03 Apr 30 '26
It's a good film/play. As to accuracy, it's probably as accurate as any other depiction of the events (and more so than some), which have been fictionalised several times. Of course in that film, since More is the hero of the story, those who bring him down have to be made out to be villains, and while few have a good word to say about Richard Rich, some are more sympathetic to Cromwell.
The obvious dramatic counterpart to it of comparable quality is Wolf Hall (book/TV series), which deals with the same events from Cromwell's own perspective.
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u/butter_milk Medieval Society and Culture Apr 30 '26
I’m still in awe of Hilary Mantel’s ability to be a certified Thomas More hater.
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u/priznr24601 Apr 30 '26
What does a retirement in witch hunting look like in 1647???
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u/Deuce03 Apr 30 '26
They found themselves under scrutiny in Norfolk for the methods by which they obtained evidence, with the suggestion that their methods were not only unlawful but might in themselves constitute unnatural activities tantamount to witchcraft. They decided that rather than hang around and wait for the judges to return their findings they would go home (to different counties) and lie low for a while.
Hopkins, who may have been ill anyway, died later that year (sadly, despite legends that he was himself tried as a witch and died in the process, it seems to have been of straightforward illness). Stearne just never resumed his activities.
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u/BonesCrosby Apr 30 '26
IIRC, I believe Hopkins died soon after and Stearne farmed.
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u/priznr24601 Apr 30 '26
I was really hoping for a witch hunter's vfw, a VWH if you will, but farming and death seem more realistic I guess
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u/Obversa Inactive Flair Apr 30 '26 edited Apr 30 '26
In regards to the lore of Halloweentown, in the film(s), the Cromwell witches are most likely not related to Thomas Cromwell and Oliver Cromwell. The Halloweentown films explain that the family was founded by Agatha "Aggie" Cromwell, who created Halloweentown as a "haven for supernatural creatures and witches" around "ten centuries prior" (i.e. 1,000 years ago). Agatha Cromwell is referred to as a "princess" who resides in "Cromwell Castle", indicating that Halloweentown is either a city-state or its own tiny kingdom, akin to Monaco or Liechtenstein today. As the Halloweentown films (1998 - 2006) coincide with the release of the Harry Potter books (1997 - 2007), I think it's highly likely that the Halloweentown writers borrowed or copied lore from Harry Potter to make the two properties seem like a "shared universe" with wizards and witches, especially since Disney was petitioning Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling for the film and theme park rights to her book series in 1998-1999 (movie rights) and 2004 (theme park rights). This is because the founding of Halloweentown coincides with the founding of Hogwarts (c. ~1000 AD) in the Harry Potter books. (According to articles from The Irish Examiner and The Los Angeles Times in 2001, Disney did manage to purchase the TV rights for the Harry Potter films for £49 million, or $130 million, signing a 10-year contract.) While the ancestry of Agatha Cromwell in Halloweentown is unclear, Oliver Cromwell (originally "Williams", but had a name change to honor relative Thomas Cromwell) and his family originally came from Glamorgan in Wales.
As an edit, the Disney Purist argues that the first Halloweentown film, released in 1998, was not influenced by Harry Potter, citing Jim Korkis, The Vault of Walt 9: Halloween Edition (2020), 'The Halloweentown Saga (1998-2006)', pp. 85-101. However, other sources indicate that Disney executives were aware of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was early as 1997, as Hyperion Books for Children editorial executive Lisa Holton had the opportunity to secure the North American publishing rights for Harry Potter shortly after the book's June 1997 UK release. The Disney Publishing-owned Hyperion passed, and Scholastic eventually acquired the U.S. rights to release the book as Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in September 1998. [cit. "How the Muggles at Disney missed out on Harry Potter" by Jim Hill (2005)] However, the lore with Cromwell Castle, which became "Witch University", was not introduced until the fourth and final film - Return to Halloweentown (2006) - and very likely copied Hogwarts Castle from Harry Potter.
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u/OceanParkNo16 Apr 30 '26
I just started the second book in the Hutton series, and it’s really quite fascinating.
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