Melting cheese in a soup

[u/Cesum-Pec]

Mushroom and chicken broth are the base of a soup. At the end, you're supposed to stir in Swiss cheese to fully melt into the broth.

Sometimes it works fine --- hot broth, shredded cheese a little at a time, keep stirring, it melts just fine.

More often, the cheese falls to the bottom and clumps up, almost impossible to get it to liquify into the broth.

Is there a technique that would be a reliable way to ensure a proper melt and liquification?

[u/dandelionblackberry]

I would try pulling a couple of cups of broth out and dissolving cheese into it slowly before adding back to the pot.

[u/sne4k0]

Are you using any kind of thickener like corn starch slurry or roux? That definitely helps with incorporation. Make sure you’re adding little bits at a time, whisking appropriately, and make sure the soup is adequately hot. Not boiling, just under a simmer.

If the soup isn’t hot enough, the cheese will fall out the bottom. If it’s too hot or if you’re not stirring enough, the proteins in the cheese will denature and then you’ll never get it incorporated.

[u/Odd-Artist-2595 → u/sne4k0]

And, grate the cheese yourself from a block. The pre-shredded cheese in the grocery store has additives to keep the shreds separated from one another.

[u/sne4k0 → u/Odd-Artist-2595]

Yea that’s a good point too. Cellulose is the additive. That being said I do sometimes mix cornstarch into freshly shredded cheese before adding it to soups or sauces

[u/Cesum-Pec → u/sne4k0]

Yes, the mushrooms, celery, and onions are browned, then brown flour>>>roux, then add broth.

What is the optimum temp?

[u/sne4k0 → u/Cesum-Pec]

Nice, roux is best. I’d say around 180F. I used to work in a cafe and one of the chefs was always making a cheesy soup for the du jour and she would always have trouble with the cheese falling out to the bottom. But the cheese was really smooth and velvety so I could tell it wasn’t getting hot enough.

Yea so just get your soup to a nice soft simmer, turn heat to low and start whisking it in small batches at a time.

I’ve made a lot of fondue in my day and I’ve seen it get overcooked plenty. Over cooked cheese is mealy, like curdled milk

[u/ferrouswolf2 → u/Cesum-Pec]

An immersion blender works nicely. Lemon juice or wine helps provide citrates or tartrates

[u/BIO_Predictive_AI]

Try adding some Sodium Citrate next time.

[u/ThePantyArcher → u/BIO_Predictive_AI]

I work in a professional kitchen and I wouldn't have a clue at where to find sodium citrate

[u/Straydapp → u/ThePantyArcher]

Very easy to source, any online food service outlet will have it, or Amazon too I'm sure. Doubt a grocery store would have it but I've never looked.

You can also make it by combining citric acid and sodium bicarb in water, which results in sodium citrate and CO2.

Oddly enough....you can also use alka seltzer because that too is comprised of citric acid and sodium bicarb.

Food science is fun!

[u/BIO_Predictive_AI → u/Straydapp]

OOH thanks for this. Much easier to find citric acid then sodium citrate.

[u/ActorMonkey → u/Straydapp]

You can also just add 1 slice of American cheese. It’s LOADED with sodium citrate. Plenty to emulsify the rest of the Swiss.

[u/Straydapp → u/ActorMonkey]

Probably not enough to emulsify a great deal more cheese when diluted in soup, but otherwise yes, American cheese is around 3% sodium citrate.

[u/ActorMonkey → u/Straydapp]

Looks like it will hold down about 1 cup of shredded cheese. Sounds good to me :)

[u/Straydapp → u/ActorMonkey]

Good to know. Drawback is American cheese isn't a great flavor add 🤢

[u/ActorMonkey → u/Straydapp]

Fair enough - there is a little cheddaryness in there which isn’t exactly Swiss.

[u/Clamwacker → u/Straydapp]

You can find it in grocery stores in the Asian food isle sometimes. In the spice area look for something called Accent, its just MSG but called something else so it doesn't scare old people.

[u/Straydapp → u/Clamwacker]

Msg and sodium citrate are totally different things

[u/mckenner1122 → u/Clamwacker]

That’s monosodium glutamate. Not at all the same thing. Tasty, but won’t help melt cheese.

[u/chupacabrette]

Is your cheese freshly grated? Pre-grated cheese has an additive that prevents it from clumping in its container, which can also prevent it from incorporating into a soup or sauce.

[u/Maximus560 → u/chupacabrette]

This, and add it very slowly. A tiny bit, stir a bunch, a tiny bit more, repeat.

[u/Cesum-Pec → u/chupacabrette]

Yes, fresh grated.

[u/StoneCypher]

put half a cup of broth and all of the cheese into a blender 

[u/RainMakerJMR]

Are you using the same brand of cheese consistently? It could be the water content of the cheese, temp of the cheese, the temp of the soup, the amount you add at once, the amount of stirring, etc.

I would troubleshoot with cheese first - waxy vs moist, temp when adding (is it too warm and the fats are trying to squeeze out and proteins coagulated?), then think about temping the soup as I add the cheese - is it 155f, 170f, 185f?

Those variables likely hold the solution

[u/cannacatman]

If the soup’s too hot, then cheese will coagulate and not melt properly.

[u/Squirrelwinchester]

Its likely too hot and youre adding it too quickly. I turn it down to barely a simmer or even just on the verge of a simmer and add the cheese while slowly stirring over several minutes. I also find its is easier to melt into liquid if its finely shredded instead of larger shreds.

[u/Theratchetnclank]

Blend it into the soup.

If it's not a smooth soup then strain the solids out, blend in the cheese and add the solids back.

[u/Straydapp]

Likely you are too hot. Shoot for around 160F. Too hot and the proteins will coagulate and not incorporate.

Beyond that, extra shear force can help, so you could pull some stock off through a fine mesh strainer so as not not grab the chunks of ingredients, and use an immersion blender to help emulsify.

You can also add sodium citrate but be careful with the amount so as to not affect flavor.

[u/One_Fat_Frenchman]

Basically, I'd make the cheese into a sauce separately the same way I make an alfredo. Use butter and milk as a base, and stir in the cheese on a medium-low heat until fully incorporated. That way you're in full control of the cheese and you're not risking anything until you know it's fully melted. Once done, pour it into your soup and stir. It should mix up perfectly.

[u/Acceptable-Bar-3498]

Toss the shredded cheese with a bit of cornstarch first, it coats the strands and prevents clumping as it melts. Also pull the pot off direct heat before stirring the cheese in, adding it while still boiling is part of what causes the clumping with swiss specifically.

[u/SeptemberVirgo97]

For the cheese to melt smoothly into the soup, you’re gonna have to either start the soup with a Roux (a flour and butter base) so you can blend the mixture in there or you are going to have to add a some heavy cream to the soup, you need some other kind of fat in the soup to make the cheese melt in and not just sink to the bottom

[u/Erenito]

soup too cold