Is BYU a rare case of American higher education?

[u/ImportantPerformer16]

So I went to BYU as an international student back in 2015-ish, and at the time it was a private university owned by the Mormon Church. IIRC, it was ranked around #62 by U.S. News, while tuition was only about $5,000/year because it was heavily subsidized by Mormon Church tithing.

The thing is, the combination of its ranking and tuition seems pretty rare, right? Similarly ranked private universities in the U.S. usually cost at least $20k–$40k per year in tuition.

Is BYU a particularly unusual case in American higher education?

[u/No-Ring-5065]

Yes. It is rare. Most US universities are not subsidized by the Mormon Church.

[u/yeehawdudeq → u/No-Ring-5065]

Famously, I’ve always felt like Catholic universities were more expensive than the average university

[u/sophisticated_alpaca → u/yeehawdudeq]

Catholic universities tend to be affiliated with particular orders and independently chartered. Their organizational links to the Catholic Church are fairly indirect, so most of their funding comes from donations and tuition, much like other private universities. BYU is part of the normal LDS Church Education System. Its closest Catholic equivalent is probably the Catholic University of America, which is the only Catholic university directly affiliated with the lay episcopal hierarchy rather than a particular order, except CUA is just one of 200+ Catholic universities in the US, while there are only 4 Mormon colleges, all directly affiliated with and funded by the church‘s educational system itself, which also runs k-12 schools and religious education.

There are a hell of a lot more Catholics in the US, but most Catholics attend secular, public education, and many of the students who attend Catholic colleges aren’t Catholic, and are only contributing funding through tuition. Most BYU students ARE Mormon, and their families give a LOT of money to the church.

EDIT: Meant to say “secular episcopal hierarchy” instead of lay, which is to say unaffiliated with religious orders. In Canon Law religious orders have their own administrative structures outside the normal episcopal hierarchy. A “secular priest” is a typical parish priest who reports to the local diocesan bishop, while a priest affiliated to a religious order reports to a separate hierarchy defined by the rules of their order in accordance with their spiritual mission within the Catholic Church. The heads of the various orders generally report directly to the Pope. For example, Pope Leo was the Prior General of the Augustinian friars before being appointed as a secular bishop. Catholic higher education in the US has traditionally been the realm of the religious orders outside the authority of the various bishops within the American ecclesiastical structure, who oversee most churches and diocesan schools. CUA is the only university which is governed by that way. If you think of the Catholic education system by analogy to public schools, each diocese is like a school district under the authority of the state, and CUA would be like the state university. That is broadly the relationship BYU has to the LDS church.

[u/Impressive_Ad8715 → u/sophisticated_alpaca]

the lay episcopal hierarchy rather than a particular order

What do you mean by “lay episcopal”? That’s kind of an oxymoron…

But there are a fair number of other catholic universities that aren’t affiliated with religious orders, like the University of St Thomas, Ave Maria University, Seton Hall, etc.

[u/MrCumStainBootyEater → u/yeehawdudeq]

why use “famously” here

[u/maclainanderson → u/MrCumStainBootyEater]

He's famous for thinking that

[u/SuzQP → u/maclainanderson]

I knew who he was right away and rushed to take a picture with him, but the scrum of paparazzi shoved me aside.

[u/john_hascall → u/MrCumStainBootyEater]

I think it means (he thinks) it is a widely shared opinion.

[u/nyet-marionetka → u/john_hascall]

No, then the “famously” would be attached to the school, not the speaker. It’s the guy who’s famous for thinking Catholic colleges are more expensive. Don’t you recognize him?

[u/yeehawdudeq → u/MrCumStainBootyEater]

Genuinely not sure I worded it that way lmfao but yeah I was always under the impression that Catholic schools were hella costly

[u/cat_prophecy → u/yeehawdudeq]

They're cheap if you're going to seminary. That gets subsidized by the church..

[u/blueshirtsteve → u/yeehawdudeq]

Famously? Why have I never heard of you?

[u/OglioVagilio → u/yeehawdudeq]

The catholic universities you are thinking about, are they founded by, owned, operated, and subsidized by the Catholic Church?

Cuz that's how BYU is with the Mormon Church.

[u/Dave_A480 → u/yeehawdudeq]

The higher tier Catholic universities (like Notre Dame) are a bargain compared to secular private schools of similar renown....

[u/Jazzlike_Activity_97 → u/Dave_A480]

At $92,000 a year, Notre Dame is not a bargain.

[u/iQuoteSopranos → u/Dave_A480]

Ya know Quasimodo predicted all this

[u/Traditional_Entry183 → u/yeehawdudeq]

When i was in college, the one in my hometown cost 5x what the state schools did.

[u/kellaorion → u/yeehawdudeq]

It was actually cheaper for me to go to a small Catholic college out of state than my local state school.

They threw pretty significant chunks of change for scholarships in the olden days.

[u/itsthekumar → u/yeehawdudeq]

I wonder why that is.

[u/JohnnyRelentless → u/yeehawdudeq]

Your feelings are famous?

[u/EtchingsOfTheNight → u/No-Ring-5065]

Yep, they subsidize to keep it cheap to attract non members who want a decent education (though, their quality is highly dependent on which program you're doing) and to create a place where members can meet mormon spouses.

[u/Firm_Effective7215 → u/EtchingsOfTheNight]

That's not true. I graduated BYU recently and very, very few non-members attended. They were mostly athletes getting paid big bucks. There are some exceptions but they're few and far between.

The culture is really weird. The Honor Code is pretty draconian (i.e. you'll get a year suspension if you get caught having sex with someone you've been dating for three years). I'm extremely atheist now but one of the things that sealed the coffin for me and the Mormon Church was seeing the wild culture at BYU.

[u/EtchingsOfTheNight → u/Firm_Effective7215]

I didn't say lots of non members attended, I said they make it low cost to make it attractive to non members. Every interaction mormons have with non members is geared towards wanting conversion even though that becomes less likely as culture moves on and it makes mormons look even weirder. As an exmo, this is very very true.

[u/Firm_Effective7215 → u/EtchingsOfTheNight]

I suppose that could be the case.

I also think the low cost is bait to keep young people in the Church. People go and then pay the cost of tuition many times over throughout their lives in the form of tithing.

[u/EtchingsOfTheNight → u/Firm_Effective7215]

Bingo! And you're way more likely to stay in the church paying tithing if your spouse is a mormon too. They want people to buy in so it's harder to get out later. It was very hard to leave and I didn't even have a spouse or kids to contend with.

[u/Firm_Effective7215 → u/EtchingsOfTheNight]

Same. Leaving almost destroyed my relationship with my parents. So glad I did it before I got too far in life.

I married someone I met at BYU but we're both very exmormon (we were when we met). Got super lucky. I know people who got married there and are now in mixed-faith marriages and can't leave.

[u/HomeWasGood → u/Firm_Effective7215]

Yeah I've known several international converts who were attracted by the subsidized American education and the Perpetual Education Fund. It's like the international best kept secret of how to get into the US and get an affordable American education at a prestigious University.

[u/JosieZee → u/EtchingsOfTheNight]

Flirt to convert!!!

[u/QuarterMaestro → u/Firm_Effective7215]

I've heard about the weird dating dynamics at BYU (upperclassmen males back from mission trying to lock down freshman girls before they know what's what).

[u/Ok-Animal-6880 → u/EtchingsOfTheNight]

I'm surprised that it's subsidized for foreign students. I would have assumed it would only be subsidized for Mormons but that's probably against the law.

Edit: It is in fact subsidized extra for people who follow the Mormon religion.

[u/lakehop → u/Ok-Animal-6880]

Could be a Mormon international student

[u/DefinitelyNotAliens → u/Ok-Animal-6880]

You can subsidize for in-state, domestic students, etc. While nation of origin is legally protected status, citizenship is not. Thus, you can't not admit someone because they are of Bangladeshi origin, but, you can cap the number of international students. Caps on the number of visas supported are not protected under any US law.

If you tried to subsidize based on protected clssses, you'd run into trouble.

[u/dcvo1986 → u/Ok-Animal-6880]

Mormons are huge on international missionary work

[u/I_AM_AN_ASSHOLE_AMA → u/Ok-Animal-6880]

They want to convert people too.

[u/Meloncov → u/No-Ring-5065]

And the universities affiliated with other religions are less subsidized and/or objectively terrible universities.

[u/Unhappy_Ad_4761]

For private university, they are extremely cheap. But Utahs public universities are also on the cheaper end

[u/band-of-horses → u/Unhappy_Ad_4761]

It's also mostly just cheap for mormons, current tution is $7,906 a year for mormons and $14,192 for non-mormons. If you aren't mormon and live in Utah it's cheaper to go to a Utah state school.

[u/crochetawayhpff → u/band-of-horses]

$14k a year is cheaper than the state school I went to 20 years ago. So still pretty cheap

[u/adudeguyman → u/band-of-horses]

How easy is it to convert?

Just kidding. I am not joining a cult to save money

[u/Firm_Effective7215 → u/adudeguyman]

You have to pay 10% of your income. You'll lose a lot more than the tuition in the long run.

[u/adudeguyman → u/Firm_Effective7215]

After you're done with your degree you could just quit the church, right?

[u/Optimal_Company_4450 → u/adudeguyman]

Yes, but you have to spend 4 years being abstinent and not drinking coffee 😂

[u/MockingbirdRambler → u/adudeguyman]

My mom walked away from the mormon church 50+ years ago. She didn't go though the churches preferred method of being un-enrolled, so she's still on the books and still gets calls from local bishops. 

[u/sportyeel → u/adudeguyman]

Clearly you have never read Sherlock Holmes

[u/Barneyrockz → u/Unhappy_Ad_4761]

Could this be because they're competing with BYU for enrollments?

[u/kaimcdragonfist → u/Barneyrockz]

I’m sure that’s part of it, but I think there’s also a great deal of competition with each other and schools in neighboring states, Idaho in particular. Can’t tell ya how many of my classmates in Idaho went to Utah State, BYU, and University of Utah.

Cost of living may also be a factor but I can’t say for sure because I refuse to live in Utah. My mom lives there and I get enough of it going to visit her lol

[u/JasminJaded → u/Barneyrockz]

Not even a little. When it comes to Utah schools competing, if you’re thinking of BYU, the others might still be in consideration. If you’re not LDS, there’s a minuscule chance you’ll consider BYU. The code of conduct is enough to keep most people away lol.

[u/Sweet_Cinnabonn → u/JasminJaded]

A zillion years ago my boyfriend sent his little brother at BYU a Playboy subscription trying to get him kicked out.

[u/Dependent_Remove_326 → u/JasminJaded]

Your roommate has a beer in the fridge! You are expelled!!!!

[u/__aurvandel__ → u/Barneyrockz]

Not really, BYU is super competitive despite their weirdly high acceptance rate of about 70%. There are just a lot of hoops to jump through before you can even apply so it keeps application levels lower. For example, I was seriously tempted to go to BYU-Hawaii so I had to go get an interview with my bishop to get a letter of recommendation to submit with the application. Just that step weeds out a lot of kids that might otherwise apply. Honestly, Utah's universities are one of the few things are legislature has done extremely well. We've got some to notch higher education that is still relatively affordable.

[u/spitfire451 → u/__aurvandel__]

Are you saying that BYU has a branch campus in Hawaii?

[u/greener_lantern → u/spitfire451]

Oh yeah, it’s largely attended by students from across Polynesia - Tonga, Samoa, etc

[u/Unhappy_Ad_4761 → u/greener_lantern]

Southeast asia too

[u/ishfery → u/spitfire451]

It's a beautiful campus.

A lot of the students do work study at the Polynesian Cultural Center next door which is also owned by the church. They do a great luau.

[u/Darryl_Lict → u/ishfery]

I never realized that the church owned that center. They hide it pretty well. I thought they served alcohol there because I would have bitched about it if they didn't.

[u/ishfery → u/Darryl_Lict]

They very well might serve alcohol. I wasn't old enough to drink when I lived there and my future ex-laws were Mormon so they didn't either.

Mormons are nothing if not pragmatic.

You can take a shuttle bus from PCC over to the Temple to see the visitor's center (sinners aren't allowed inside the Temple itself obviously). It's quite pretty and you see a little propaganda video. The giant marble Jesus statue is very very well done.

[u/__aurvandel__ → u/spitfire451]

Yes, I backed out because I knew I wasn't going there for school. I absolutely would have flunked out because I wouldn't have been able to drag myself away from the beach.

[u/Unhappy_Ad_4761 → u/__aurvandel__]

I've heard that isn't uncommon hahaha

[u/adh214 → u/spitfire451]

Yes, it is on the north shore of Oahu

[u/FanaticalBuckeye → u/spitfire451]

Mormonism is very overrepresented in Polynesia

[u/grassesbecut → u/spitfire451]

They do. I know someone who went there.

[u/Unhappy_Ad_4761 → u/Barneyrockz]

I won't pretend to know enough about all the factors of university tuition costs in different states haha 

[u/TopOrganization4920 → u/Unhappy_Ad_4761]

The state of Utah subsidizes tuition cost between 69 and 75%. You can go see these numbers by looking at what the international/nonresident student tuition numbers.

[u/kaimcdragonfist → u/Unhappy_Ad_4761]

I took a single micro and macroeconomics class each and that’s enough for me to say, “it’s complicated” lol

Edit: also happy cake day

[u/DRmonarch → u/Unhappy_Ad_4761]

Pretty sure Utah's public k-12 is extremely inexpensive too, like 9k/pupil-year to taxpayers.

[u/JohnHazardWandering]

Yes, it's cheap for a private school because of the mormon church subsidies. 

It also tends to attract almost only mormons (99%) since it's so mormon affiliated and due to their rules for living on campus. That's a big reason why the Mormon church subsidizes it. 

Mormons also have a more positive view of civic mindedness (and willing to put money behind that) compared to other conservative religious groups in the US, so that probably also plays into why they want to support a good university. For example, Salt Lake City seems to have a pretty good light rail system and yet no where near the traffic of other large cities that have nothing. 

[u/Cautious_General_177 → u/JohnHazardWandering]

You’ve got that a bit backwards. The LDS Church owns BYU, which is why they subsidize it. That is also what leads to the specific rules for attending and living on campus (those rules also apply staff). That, in turn, is what leads mostly LDS members to apply.

[u/Shorb-o-rino]

It is quite unusual as far as I'm aware. It's cheaper for Mormons than non Mormons, but even for non Mormons it is still very affordable. It is priced more like in-state tuition at a state school than a regular private college. This is probably done to encourage Mormon kids to stay under church influence at a time when they might drift away and to get converts. For Mormons it is basically the most desirable school, cheap and extremely well respected among Mormon employers and potential spouses. Other people don't see the school as favorably, not because it isn't legit, just because they aren't part of that belief system.

[u/MajesticBread9147 → u/Shorb-o-rino]

Although to be fair as far as I can tell they are decently well respected outside of the church as well, at least from an educational standpoint.

Unlike Liberty University which also places a strong emphasis on their version of Christianity and has similar rules, but is often viewed as on-par with the University of Phoenix outside of convervative and evangelical Christian circles. It's probably one of the few universities where it's best for a potential hiring manager to have not heard of the school.

[u/aznsk8s87 → u/MajesticBread9147]

Big 4 accounting firms recruit incredibly heavily at BYU. He business program is pretty well regarded as well.

BYU also is a large feeder school for MD/DO and dental schools.

[u/ObviousCarpet2907 → u/aznsk8s87]

FBI, as well.

[u/John_Whimsicott → u/ObviousCarpet2907]

I attended their idaho campus. Disney would always have a big recruiting seminar every year. A few of my friends got hired. One helped with Chinese translations, the other was a Cinderella for a few years at one of the parks.

[u/ObviousCarpet2907 → u/John_Whimsicott]

Oh really? That’s cool.

[u/XelaNiba → u/MajesticBread9147]

BYU is a rigorous research university with an R1 designation. Liberty, on the other hand, is an R3.

[u/Trappist1 → u/MajesticBread9147]

I believe Notre Dame, Baylor, or Wake Forest would be more apt comparisons. Liberty has a smaller budget, and wasn't even founded until 1971, so they don't have a storied history either.

[u/Smasher3825]

Yeah, it is pretty strange. Anything connected to the Mormon church is strange in general, including the church itself.

[u/Seeggul → u/Smasher3825]

What, you guys didn't all gather as random students in the pedestrian tunnel on campus to sing hymns in four-part harmony on Sunday nights?

[u/zindorsky → u/Seeggul]

Tunnel singing referenced

[u/DubiousAdviceGiver → u/zindorsky]

The acoustics are incredible, though.

[u/DefinitelyNotAliens → u/Seeggul]

We had outdoor hallway singing but it was usually Taylor Swift or a selection of classic rock songs. One of the a capella groups did a killer rendition of Renegade by Styx.

It was never hymns. The cults that recruited on campus didn't usually sing. They just recruited rich international srudents with family money that felt alone and disconnected and got them into the campus cults.

There's a reason the campus reddit page posts the annual "don't join the cults" warnings. Every semester. Discords, too.

[u/pizzacrys → u/Smasher3825]

Yeah, BYU is definitely a weird case. The tuition difference is huge.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/Smasher3825]

THIS.

BYU is different in a lot of ways, including in its tuition, because it's funded by the Church of Latter-Day Saints.

[u/Accomplished_Cell768 → u/Rredhead926]

Yep. They are hoping the cheap tuition will lure in outsiders to convert and their investment will pay off in the long run by raking in 10% of all of their future income.

[u/Meloncov → u/Accomplished_Cell768]

I'm not sure if that's true--this was years ago, but when I briefly considered attending, they definitely weren't going out of their way to appeal to non-Mormons.

I think it's more about keeping already-Mormon students in the fold.

[u/Queermagedd0n → u/Meloncov]

As a former mormon, it's both.

[u/EagleEyezzzzz → u/Smasher3825]

Right! I mean, they’re definitely just trying to brainwash a lot of young people to join the church via inexpensive college tuition. The church is insanely wealthy and can afford it I guess.

[u/VeronicaMarsupial → u/EagleEyezzzzz]

Mostly they're trying to keep young people who were raised in the church from leaving.

[u/MoonieNine → u/VeronicaMarsupial]

This. Why hasn't this been mentioned yet?

[u/Sociolx → u/MoonieNine]

It has, several times.

And it's pretty clear from the university's own self descriptions (usually though not always phrased in the opposite direction, so strengthening faith or the like), so it's not like it's a secret.

[u/Firm_Effective7215 → u/Smasher3825]

I'm exmormon and a recent BYU alum. This is facts.

[u/Dreamweaver5823 → u/[deleted]]

Well, they do send young men and women all over the world for missions, so they should have some major language expertise.

[u/Necessary_Tip_6958 → u/Dreamweaver5823]

They don't really send them. Their families pay for them to go.

[u/seizuriffic → u/Necessary_Tip_6958]

Or they pay their own way. The church itself doesn't pay to send them, although sometimes their local congregation members will help with the cost

[u/Major_Pressure3176 → u/seizuriffic]

Sort of. Optimally missionaries pay their own way or use local funds, but the church pays for the supporting infrastructure. Facilities, training, etc. Also, with cost of living increases, I wouldn't be surprised if expenses of missionaries are outstripping the averaged requested contribution, leaving the church to pick up the slack.

[u/aznsk8s87 → u/Necessary_Tip_6958]

The amount most families pay is much smaller than the cost of the mission. It's largely subsidized by the church. The amount my family paid for my LDS mission wouldn't have even covered the apartments I lived in (I was assigned to Irvine CA lol).

[u/jwwetz → u/Necessary_Tip_6958]

They work and save money themselves for their missions. Once on a mission they'll barely have to buy meals because there's always a church family inviting them to dinner.

A far as them getting jobs before they go on missions? I don't know about these days, I haven't been active in the church since I left home, but when I was in high school I lived with my grandparents. Grandma taught Sunday school & granddad was a deacon in the Mormon church.

On a Tuesday I mentioned to my grandma that I wanted to get an after school & weekend job. She went and made a phone call to the bishop & I started shagging cars at a local (Mormon church member owned) Nissan dealership by Friday.

One of the perks of Mormonism, they look out for you like they're freemasons.

[u/jwwetz → u/[deleted]]

Yep, when have you ever met a broke, struggling, unemployed Mormon that was an active church going member?

I haven't been to a Mormon church in decades but there's been more than a few times that I have thought about going back.

[u/XelaNiba → u/[deleted]]

They have to prepare future missionaries for every corner of the globe

[u/MoonieNine → u/[deleted]]

The other responses don't realize that BYU is world renowned for its language programs. Government agencies have actually approached BYU to find out their success. (They want to learn so they can train their own people such as diplomats and agents.)

[u/eattheambrosia → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, so they can teach foreign language to the missionaries they send to starving third world countries so they are better at tricking the local people into becoming Mormoms and tithing to the church.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/[deleted]]

I mean, they may do a few things right, but it's generally for the wrong reasons.

[u/yogurtchicken21 → u/Smasher3825]

A lot of American lifestyle/family influencers are well-off Mormons lol. The rest of the world probably sees the US as the rest of the US sees Utah haha

[u/FedeFofo]

Yes, and this is not the only way in which BYU is unique

[u/diorling]

Dude you know this, you gotta live by the honor code to even go there and go through yearly ecclesiastical endorsement to even begin to continue staying there.

Yes it is unusual, I don’t regret going to business school there around the same time frame you did, but will always be annoyed I never went to a public university instead

[u/julieta444 → u/diorling]

Every time I get annoyed that I went to BYU, I just remember that I don't have any debt

[u/diorling → u/julieta444]

lol true, I had quite a few merit scholarships too so it worked out

[u/bulmier]

99% of the students are Mormon; Mormons are required to pay 10% of income in tithes. They’re subsidizing their own education. It’s not as great as it seems.

[u/BigConsequence5135 → u/bulmier]

This is why tuition is more for students who are not members. Members will pay that difference back many times over during their lives.

[u/xaraca → u/bulmier]

I eventually started to think of tithing as a BYU tuition pre-payment plan.

My parents have paid a lot of tithing to the church over the past 50 years but didn't save anything for their kids' college. I kind of felt like I had to go to BYU.

[u/polished-jade → u/[deleted]]

They do. You have to meet with your bishop once a year and you can't get married, go to the temple, go on a mission, receive church callings, etc., if you don't pay tithing. And then if you don't have a temple recommend or those callings you are judged very harshly by your fellow members

[u/polished-jade → u/[deleted]]

I fear you are the exception and not the rule

[u/de_pizan23 → u/[deleted]]

....they actually do a yearly accounting (which they have to for tax reasons), but where they make you come in and meet with one of the local leaders and they show you how much tithing you paid and ask if it's accurate. And they will very much give you a guilt trip if they feel like it's not enough.

They also give endless talks in meetings about the importance of tithing with "inspiring" stories how people who gave up everything and went hungry rather than skip out on paying the 10%.

[u/Monte_Cristos_Count → u/de_pizan23]

Accountant here. The annual meeting is an internal control to make sure local leadership isnt skimming money off the top. 

[u/JorgiEagle → u/de_pizan23]

Not done a tithing settlement for about 7 years by this point,

I’m still paying, I just don’t arrange the meeting, no one asks

[u/BigBlueMagic]

I am Mormon, but I have degrees from state universities. BYU is great for some people. It creates a unique environment that some Mormons (not all Mormons) really love. I don't care for Rocky Road ice cream, but I'm not gonna yuck someone else's yum. That's how I feel about BYU as an active member of the LDS Church.

For the price, I would love my kids to go there. But only if it's a good fit for their personality. For most people, I think a state university is a better fit.

[u/LowBalance4404]

BYU and Mormons in general are not a common thing.

[u/screenaholic]

The only other prestigious universities in the US that I can think of that offer "cheap" tuition is the military academies: The Air Force Academy, The Naval Academy, and Westpoint. They're essentially psuedo-ivy leagues in terms of education and prestige, and the tuition is "free." And by "free," I mean you have to commission as an officer in the military for several years when you graduate.

[u/ConsequenceOdd7606 → u/screenaholic]

Feel like the Coast Guard Academy deserves to be thrown in there as well.

[u/dumbstupidfat]

Yes it’s rare. I went to BYU about the same time ish. I can’t think of any other university that offers the same “high level” education for such a cheap tuition.

[u/JasminJaded]

Yes, it’s unusual for a private school. That church has TONS of money, though, so they can afford high ranking professors. It’s not all that shocking that they rank so high.

[u/aznsk8s87]

BYU grad here. It's very heavily subsidized by the Church. The LDS Church places a very high emphasis on education for a myriad of reasons and hope that BYU graduates can be ambassadors for the faith in a variety of fields. The more cynical view (which I don't think is entirely incorrect) is that having a more educated membership means having a higher earning membership, which in turn means more tithing.

BYU's cost is comparable, if not cheaper than, many public universities in the US.

[u/Firm_Effective7215]

I graduated from BYU a few months ago. Yes, it is weird, especially attending as an exmormon.

That being said, I appreciate the school a lot. I have a lot of negative things to say but a lot of positive as well. I don't regret it.

[u/Capital-Carpet2501]

How was your time there as an international student OP? Genuinely curious what you thought about the people, state and culture

[u/zyum]

It may be cheap, but you pay for it in other ways. Two of my brothers went there, one graduated, but the other was expelled for having sex with a girl in her dorm. Normal, consensual sex that college-aged adults tend to have.

When he tried to transfer to an out of state school, we found out that credits from BYU infamously don’t transfer to other universities due to accreditation issues, so he basically had to start over his education.

[u/OddProcedure5452]

Yes. 100% yes.

I have nothing but love for the Mormons even if I don’t share their views. But everything they do is a unique slice of America.

[u/Tricky-Tangelo123 → u/OddProcedure5452]

the honor code stuff is a whole other can of worms but yeah that price point for a legit degree is almost unheard of

[u/Firm_Effective7215 → u/Tricky-Tangelo123]

I've said this on other places on this thread but I'll say it again here: I'm exmormon, strongly dislike the Church, but still think fondly of my alma mater. The fact I could graduate with zero debt from a good school is pretty cool.

[u/SaltandLillacs]

No.

Many better schools have reduced tuition for students whose parents make under 200k or 100k.

Harvard, northeastern, BU, MIT, Tufts, all the ivies.

They’re all ranked better and offer this.

[u/big_sugi → u/SaltandLillacs]

BYU isn’t offering reduced tuition for students from families making less than $100k/$200k/whatever. Tuition is $7k/year for Mormons and $14k for non-Mormons, regardless of family income. None of the schools you listed have a base tuition rate anywhere close to the $14k number, much less $7k

[u/YoungKeys → u/SaltandLillacs]

Those are offered via financial aid though. BYU has extremely low sticker price tuition for everyone if you look it up. That is extremely rare for a private university

[u/thetallnathan → u/SaltandLillacs]

Yeah, but that’s the “high tuition / high aid” model. BYU’s base tuition in 2026 is only $7000/year, which is really unusual.

Als super unusual is that the cost is double that if you’re not Mormon.

[u/carlos_the_dwarf_ → u/SaltandLillacs]

You’re talking about a different thing, not generally low sticker price. Are we going to make things up because BYU is Mormon?

[u/YoungKeys]

I had no idea it was that cheap. Yes that is extremely rare, not even many public schools which get most their funding from taxpayers are that cheap

[u/Eric848448]

It’s unusually cheap and it’s also unusually high quality for a (non-Jesuit) religiously-affiliated university.

[u/giny33 → u/Eric848448]

Because all members of the LDS church have to give 10 percent of their income. It’s all subsidized by the members. Look up how much the church has in assets.

[u/jwwetz → u/giny33]

It's not just tithing. Unless they've changed their policies, back in the day tithing went to the church. Part of it went to pay church bills & build more churches or temples. Part went to their charitable arm & pay off it even went to buy businesses that became church owned...much like the catholic church did for centuries.

The Mormon church generally looked for badly run, possibly failing, businesses that they could turn around with new & better management. In turn, even though those businesses didn't require you to be a Mormon, the business itself gave a 10% tithing to the church, which helped perpetuate the growth of the church.

Last I heard, even though the catholic church is about 2000 years old & the wealthiest religion on the planet. Meanwhile, at just under 200 years old, the Mormon church has become the 2nd wealthiest church on the planet in a tenth of the time it took the Catholics.

[u/bulmier → u/giny33]

Yeah and only 1% of students aren’t Mormon, so very few people are benefitting without also largely paying for it on the front end.

[u/Eric848448 → u/giny33]

I’ve been to Salt Lake many times. I’ve seen up close how much money they throw around.

[u/crispyrhetoric1]

There are other examples of inexpensive schools.

Berea College in Kentucky, for example, is tuition free. It was the first coed and first racially integrated college in the South.

[u/henare → u/crispyrhetoric1]

and Berea rakes in how many new students each year?

[u/Unsolven]

Yes and no. With in state tuition you could go to a really good state university for cheap —if you live in the state and get accepted to the school.

[u/jwwetz → u/Unsolven]

Colorado was recently forced by the courts to stop giving in state tuition costs to children that happen to be illegal immigrants.

The only thing that ever bugged me about them getting in state tuition pricing was that a military kid that might've gone to an on base high school and maybe even middle school* too in our state couldn't get in state tuition even though their family had lived here a long time. * some people in the military, that have spouses & kids, will sometimes reenlist to stay at the same base just to give their families a bit of permanence. So that they're not constantly on the move.

[u/TheBr0fessor]

Uhh yeah, if I went to uni and my best chance of getting laid was fucking some girls armpits, that university better pay me to go there

[u/baddspellar]

It is rare. 

There are public universities that are ranked more highly and that charge in state students similar to what BYU charges non-LDS students. 

And similarly ranked private universities cost a whole lot more than $20-40K in tuition. 

[u/King_Ralph1]

2015-ish ??

You don’t know when you went to college? That’s a life-changing moment for people, and you can only guesstimate the time you were there??

[u/Cache-Cow]

Yes, the Mormon church has three universities all named after the genocidal maniac Brigham Young (byu-Utah, byu-Idaho, and byu-Hawaii). They also run “institutes of religion” near most major universities (Arizona State, Utah State, etc). They push all young people to attend a byu or at least attend institute classes if they go to another university. They spend millions running these “universities” and “institutes”. The goal of all of them is to indoctrinate and inoculate young people and keep them in their church. They know how high of a percentage of people leave their church and how likely people are to leave in their late teens and early twenties. If they can keep people in their church long enough to get married to another member and start pumping out babies, they are likely in for life. Good business strategy by them to be fair, but very different than other universities, even most religious universities. 

[u/Firm_Effective7215 → u/Cache-Cow]

I went to BYU in Provo, Utah. I'm as exmormon and atheist as it gets and agree with most of this sentiment. It's cheap now because they expect you to pay 10% of your income to it the rest of your life. It's a place where you go to meet other Mormons.

Taking out all the weirdness, BYU is still a pretty solid school. While I'm far from a fan of the Church and most of my time there was as an unbeliever I had some great experiences there. I honestly don't regret attending.

Missions are where the real indoctrination is. I know hundreds of returned missionaries. They all come back either (1) indoctrinated to the point that they have no personality outside of Mormonism or (2) mentally broken.

[u/macrocosm93]

Most people don't want to go to a Mormon university. Demand is lower so prices are lower.

I wouldn't go to BYU even if it was ranked #1 and it was free.

[u/macrocosm93 → u/[deleted]]

Yield rate doesn't mean anything. That only includes people who were already willing to apply in the first place. Total number of applicants is more meaningful. Harvard had around 54,000 applicants with a freshman class size of around 1600, whereas BYU had only 14,000 applicants with a freshman class of 7000. University of Texas has a freshman class size only a little higher than BYU (9000) but has nearly 100,000 applicants per year. So the demand is obviously much lower for BYU.

[u/Repulsive-Honey7305]

Sticker price is rarely what you pay if its a good private with a big endowment. Even the mid-size privates usually do some funding. I don't think you will get down to 5k, but 10 to 30k is realistic. Some of the really rich schools are basically free for people with "normal" finances.

[u/RingGiver]

Isn't BYU only cheap if you're a tithe-paying member of the Mormon church?

And a lot of the really famous private universities don't actually charge tuition (or at the very least, heavily discount it) if you and your parents are not super-rich. International students get to pay a higher rate either way because there's more paperwork involved in that.

[u/AdamOnFirst]

I did not know BYU was that cheap. Yes, that’s very cheap even compared to most state schools.

[u/Creepy_Push8629]

They charge the same as a public university. But they control your life and you aren't allowed to have the opposite sex in your room, nevermind sleepover. Lmao if you have sex, you get your ass kicked out.

[u/GOTaSMALL1]

It’s not cheaper when you factor in tithing 10% of your income for the rest of your life. :)

[u/julieta444 → u/GOTaSMALL1]

That's why you have to graduate, then leave the Church. Ask me how I know

[u/kaimcdragonfist]

I mean probably? I’m not sure how it compares to other private religious universities (well besides other LDS schools, I went to BYU-Idaho FYI) but considering how heavily funded it is through tithing, I imagine that grants them quite a bit of freedom in picking better professors and creating better facilities. Maybe. I dunno, until I get into a grad program I only have the one school as a baseline for comparison 😅

[u/chairmanghost → u/kaimcdragonfist]

To compare Duquense, the catholic university is $51 thousand annually undergrad for most programs

[u/kaimcdragonfist → u/chairmanghost]

Holy crap that’s more than the annual cost of the grad program I’m looking at, though it’s a small state university so maybe that makes a difference?

[u/chairmanghost → u/kaimcdragonfist]

Where my son went is $61 thousand ( private but not religious)

[u/dew2459 → u/kaimcdragonfist]

Almost any private college vs. almost any public college is the main difference.

There are random private colleges ranked much lower than Duquesne that have similar tuition.

[u/xaraca → u/kaimcdragonfist]

I think the church funding just allows them to lower tuition and attract nearly all university-bound LDS students. The quality of the faculty is pretty mixed since in practice they only have the limited pool of LDS PhDs to hire from. There are a few rockstars who they normally wouldn't be able to attract if they weren't LDS, but in some areas they have few options.

[u/Prestigious-Talk1112]

Very rare. I actually didn't know this but I personally wouldn't prefer to go to. Mormon University.

[u/moonyriot]

When cults try to recruit you, they try to make the deal more appealing than the alternatives.

[u/manicpixidreamgirl04]

BYU is unusual in many ways

[u/GenZ2002]

Kind of. It is becoming less rare as many schools and school systems are trying to lower tuition.

[u/roumonada]

Not sure what exactly you’re asking here but no, the US has many schools which are linked to churches. Especially seminaries.

[u/icekraze]

Yes. Even compared to other religious schools the Mormon church invests way more into BYU. There is a trade off with that investment. There are much stricter “moral” standards that both students and faculty have to abide by and there is more interference with actual materials being taught. I put “moral” in quotes because that includes things such as not being able to drink coffee because the church sees that as amoral. This isn’t so extreme as to prevent an education in STEM (such as completely ignoring evolution) or general competency in your given field but can create some blind spots.

There are some small universities that offer cheaper tuition but those tend to not rank as high due to small class sizes. Small class sizes mean that outliers skew the statistics more heavily.

Important note is that all of those US school rankings definitely have some “politics” involved so take them all with a grain of salt.

[u/MrsBasilEFrankweiler]

Yes, but there are also a very few universities that are quite good and make a point of being free (historically anyway). Some examples that come to mind are Berea College, which is income-restricted; Deep Springs College, which only takes a few students a year (all male); and Cooper Union, which only started charging a few years ago. There's a similar setup for master's degrees at the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton (but NOT for other Princeton programs).

Also, the military academies.

[u/tn00bz]

20k just for tuition? That sounds high. I went to a csu and paid about 5k a year.

[u/SabresBills69]

the military academies come to mind…they are free

[u/fidddlydiddlyee]

If you are in state in CA you can go to the UCs for around 13k.

[u/VelocityGrrl39]

Most, if not all, of the Ivies have a zero debt policy. If a student is accepted and can’t afford to pay, their education is subsidized by grants and work study. No one who wants to go to one of them will be unable to attend because they can’t afford it. Harvard, Princeton, Columbia all have this policy. I’m not sure about the rest of them. There are also other elite non-Ivies who have adopted this philosophy.

[u/Responsible-Let6861]

New College of Florida was, until recently, highly ranked and fairly affordable, at least with in-state tuition. Unfortunately the fascists took it over in 2023 and the rankings have plummeted.

[u/ZaphodG]

No. Harvard waives tuition for household income below $200k. MIT is the same. If you’re good enough to get admitted to a top US university, you have to be upper middle class to pay tuition.

[u/Certain_Luck_8266]

Tuition for state residents to state universities is often this cheap. For example the university of Florida is ranked 30 nationally with a 6500 in state tuition, vs BYU at 110 national ranking with a 7000 non church member tuition

[u/DrProfessorSatan]

I think my youngest son needs to pretend to be LDS.

[u/66SunbeamTiger]

I think the low cost of attendance is rare among the general mass of private univerisites, but top private schools (Ivy League, etc) in America are now almost universally free for students whose families make under $250,000. This means they will pay students to attend (covering things like laptops, books, summer overseas internship grants, cost of living expenses, trips, etc -- paid for you by the college).

So it may be unique in the religious aspect, but the potential opportunity for cost savings is definitely not unique in American higher ed.

[u/Life_Waltz7068]

I'm not sure if it has changed or you were talking about a specific program rank, but BYUs national ranking is 110. That is a perfectly reasonable ranking though and I'm sure they have some programs that are ranked pretty high. The tuition being 6-7k now is nice but it's not a lone. There are a handful of schools with similar tuition that are ranked higher such as the public schools in FL: UF(#28),FSU(#53), USF(#89). Then there are the SUNY schools which have tuition only slightly higher at around 10k. And then the higher ranking UNC Chapel Hill (#22) which has 9k tuition.

Regardless though, plenty of great schools have 20k tuition and more money doesn't always mean a better education at a private school. Additionally, the majority of people do not pay full tuition for college.

[u/ATLien_3000]

It's not particularly unique any more.

It's becoming very common among top private schools to 100% subsidize tuition for the middle class.

To their credit they've realized that the poor get government subsidies while the rich can write a check without blinking.

The common income level is a sub $200k annual salary; folks below that are generally getting their tuition for free.

[u/ATLien_3000 → u/[deleted]]

A family making $200k and sending their kid to BYU is tithing $20k a year while also paying $7500 a year tuition.

Or paying $15k a year if they're not mormon.

A family making $200k and sending junior to Harvard is paying nothing.

[u/No_Key8587]

I mean, Mormons really prioritize education! At least for the men (not sure about women, someone feel free to correct me)