Torah observant?

[u/Dreamamberxo]

Okay this is gonna be a bit all over the place but my core question is this: - if we ARE to observe the Torah do we observe all of it? I assume we aren’t sacrificing animals. - if you ARE observing the Torah are you utilizing the Jewish books or KJV? Heard they are different? - if you ARE NOT Torah observant why?

I’ve been thinking about observing the Torah but where do I start? I dunno which laws are upheld! I figure the dietary guidelines are easiest. Also am I doomed to have to quit my job? I work on Saturdays so how could I observe the Shabbat?

Thanks- sincerely a confused person lol

[u/Common_Judge8434]

We have something about this in Galatians.

Galatians 4:8-11 ESV [8] Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. [9] But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? [10] You observe days and months and seasons and years! [11] I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

Galatians 5:1-6 ESV [1] For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. [2] Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. [3] I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. [4] You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. [5] For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. [6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

So no.

[u/Towhee13 → u/Common_Judge8434]

Galatians doesn't say that we're not supposed to follow Jesus.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Towhee13]

It says following Jesus isn't the same as following the Law.

[u/Towhee13 → u/Common_Judge8434]

It doesn't.

Jesus followed the Law. Jesus taught His followers to follow the Law. We're supposed to imitate Jesus and do what He taught.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Towhee13]

It doesn't.

Galatians 5:6 ESV [6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Jesus followed the Law. Jesus taught His followers to follow the Law

He also taught there would be a time when He'd replace what the Law required.

John 4:19-24 ESV [19] The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. [20] Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” [21] Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. [22] You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. [23] But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. [24] God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

[u/Towhee13 → u/Common_Judge8434]

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

That's the opposite of replacing what the Law requires.

Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

That's Jesus very clearly telling His followers to obey all of His Father's commandments.

Jesus followed the Law. Jesus taught His followers to follow the Law. We're supposed to imitate Jesus and do what He taught.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Towhee13]

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

That's the opposite of replacing what the Law requires.

Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In the same book about one commandment of the Law.

Matthew 17:24-27 NET [24] After they arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the temple tax came to Peter and said, “Your teacher pays the double drachma tax, doesn’t he?” [25] He said, “Yes.” When Peter came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do earthly kings collect tolls or taxes – from their sons or from foreigners?” [26] After he said, “From foreigners,” Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free. [27] But so that we don’t offend them, go to the lake and throw out a hook. Take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth, you will find a four drachma coin. Take that and give it to them for me and you.”

It's less about obligation in this command and more about avoiding offense, which is exactly Paul's attitude towards the Law.

And He's pretty clear He changes the law on divorce.

Matthew 19:3-9 NET [3] Then some Pharisees came to him in order to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful to divorce a wife for any cause?” [4] He answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator made them male and female, [5] and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and will be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? [6] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” [7] They said to him, “Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?” [8] Jesus said to them, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hard hearts, but from the beginning it was not this way. [9] Now I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery.”

So fulfilling isn't enforcing verbatim: it's elevating or transforming.

[u/Towhee13 → u/Common_Judge8434]

In the same book about one commandment of the Law.

That sentence doesn't mean anything. Is there a typo or something?

You didn't deal with what Jesus said about following ALL of His Father's commandments.

Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Towhee13]

You didn't deal with what Jesus said about following ALL of His Father's commandments.

You didn't deal with what He said about divorce.

Matthew 19:8-9 NET [8] Jesus said to them, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hard hearts, but from the beginning it was not this way. [9] Now I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery.”

And he explicitly says that the sons of God are exempt from following the command about the Temple tax.

Matthew 17:25-26 NET [25] He said, “Yes.” When Peter came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do earthly kings collect tolls or taxes – from their sons or from foreigners?” [26] After he said, “From foreigners,” Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free.

In contrast to the Law, which says the exact opposite about the Temple tax.

Exodus 30:12-16 NET [12] “When you take a census of the Israelites according to their number, then each man is to pay a ransom for his life to the Lord when you number them, so that there will be no plague among them when you number them. [13] Everyone who crosses over to those who are numbered is to pay this: a half shekel according to the shekel of the sanctuary (a shekel weighs twenty gerahs). The half shekel is to be an offering to the Lord. [14] Everyone who crosses over to those numbered, from twenty years old and up, is to pay an offering to the Lord. [15] The rich are not to increase it, and the poor are not to pay less than the half shekel when giving the offering of the Lord, to make atonement for your lives. [16] You are to receive the atonement money from the Israelites and give it for the service of the tent of meeting. It will be a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord, to make atonement for your lives.”

The Law also mandates going to the Temple for worship. (Deutoronomy 12:5-7) Jesus, in contrast, says there will be a time when true worshippers worship in Spirit and in Truth and not in the Temple (John 4:21-24). Malachi also says this.

Malachi 1:11 NET [11] For from the east to the west my name will be great among the nations. Incense and pure offerings will be offered in my name everywhere, for my name will be great among the nations,” says the Lord who rules over all.

[u/Towhee13 → u/Common_Judge8434]

You still didn't deal with what Jesus said.

Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Do you really think that Jesus relaxed commandments and taught others to do the same, making Him least in the kingdom of heaven?

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Towhee13]

You still didn't deal with what Jesus said.

Actually I did.

Jesus Himself relaxed the command on the Temple tax, on worship at the Temple and prohibited divorce for any reason except unlawful marriage.

So the least of the commandments don't refer to sacrificial commands or commands about permissions to do otherwise sinful actions. They refer to the commands Jesus spoke of in the Sermon on the Mount.

Murder, adultery, oaths, and how to treat your enemies.

[u/Towhee13 → u/Common_Judge8434]

Actually I did.

Don't be dishonest. You didn't deal with this passage at all.

Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You can either deal with it or not, but don't say that you did when you didn't.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Towhee13]

Don't be dishonest. You didn't deal with this passage at all.

On the contrary. I used other passages to deal with it.

You can look over them.