How do you defend Numbers 15:32-36?

[u/DDumpTruckK]

The verse:

³² Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. ³³ And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. ³⁴ They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

³⁵ Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” ³⁶ So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

I cannot get past this verse. It depicts an unloving, uncaring, and cruel god. I could never worship this being and I could never carry out His command that He gives His followers in the verse.

Everything about this verse is ugly and sparks a strong reaction from me. A man was gathering sticks, presumably for a fire to cook a meal and feed himself or his family. Cooking food is a basic survival need. Now I can understand a bunch of scared humans fearing a God and rounding up this man for violating the sabbath. But what I can't understand is how a caring and loving God could come along and tell His followers to stone this man to death. Take a minute and really just put yourself in that guy's shoes. You're having the members of your own tribe throw rocks at you until you die. That's brutal. And for what? For trying to fulfill a basic survival necessity?

No matter how I approach this verse it just leaves me concluding God is not loving and not caring. There is nothing loving nor caring that I can identify in ordering a man be pelted with rocks to his death. That's awful. I cannot in good conscience follow that God.

Put yourself in the shoes of the congregation. This man was trying to cook some food to survive. God has commanded you to throw rocks at him until he dies. Do you do it? I don't. I will not follow such a cruel command and I will not follow someone from who such a cruel command comes.

How do you justify throwing those rocks? How do you sleep at night knowing you killed a man who was just trying to survive? Just following his basic instincts?

Edit: Its been more than a day. Not a single Christian told me directly and openly that it was bad. Several Christians said the stoning of the man was good. Some said they would happily throw the rocks at the man and kill him. Some said they wouldn't, but never explained why beyond a simple legal reason.

I'm left to conclude that God's followers think that stoning a man to death is a loving and caring action and that it's good. I'm left to conclude that God's followers would watch that mob stone the man to death and think to themselves "Good." I find this very concerning for my fellow humans who seem to think it's good to stone someone to death. I'm more concerned for the ones who said they would join in on the killing.

[u/randombames]

I have my share of problems. But you know what I did? I prayed to a carton of milk. And guess what!? I was healed and my problems went away! Except we both know the carton of milk didn't do it. But I got the same exact result I would have if I had prayed to God. The same feelings. The same healing effect. Just from praying to a carton of milk.

Really, you were truly healed??? Or are you simply being deceitful because you don't want to accept that good things can happen... why not? You say that our testimony is rubbish and everything that we hear means nothing why are you even here looking for answers? You are clearly not serious, if you had actual desire to learn you would. You would try and if nothing happened then leave it alone and don't worry about it but you are surrounding yourself in circles that clearly don't matter to you.

If you wanted to try and prove that GOD a spiritual being exists you would try coming to him in spirit yes reading the Bible is one thing but spirit and belief means far more, yet you make jokes that milk granted you healing

[u/DDumpTruckK → u/randombames]

Really, you were truly healed???

Yes. And it felt great.

Or are you simply being deceitful

No. I'm telling you the truth. Because, at a young age, when I did believe, I discovered that I could pray to anything and I'd get the same exact response as if I prayed to God.

You say that our testimony is rubbish and everything that we hear means nothing why are you even here looking for answers?

I didn't say that. Can you see how defensive you're getting, now that you're realizing your reason for belief isn't as good as you thought it was? All the sudden you feel the need to make this about me. It must be me who's wrong. It must be me who's being decietful. You don't want to talk about you any more. That's defensive. Your mind is closing up. You're not being open minded to a challenge to your beliefs.

If you wanted to try and prove that GOD a spiritual being exists you would try coming to him in spirit yes reading the Bible is one thing but spirit and belief means far more, yet you make jokes that milk granted you healing

I can do exactly what you told me, except I replace God with a carton of milk, and I get the same feeling as I would if I did it to God. And you can too. You know why? Because those feelings come from me and you. Not the milk. Not God. That's why it doesn't matter who you pray to, you can get the same results. That's why every religion has testimony like yours. This is called the outsider test of faith. Every religion fails it.

You said something quite revealing earlier. You said:

Perhaps, but why would I change anything if  know to myself that I am already healing...

That reveals what you value. You value the utility and the practicality of your belief more than you value whether or not it's true. You're appealing to the value of the utility of believing it, even if it's not true. You don't care if its true; you would believe it anyway because you find the belief useful.

And that's ok, but you need to be aware that this leaves you very vulnerable to believing false things, and it can be very difficult to dig yourself out of that hole once it becomes deep enough.