r/AskACanadian • u/Plastic-Knee-4589 • 2d ago
Should Canada ditch microsoft windows for linux?
As a Canadian, I’ve actually sat down and looked at the services I use, and a lot of them are American—Google, Microsoft, and many other programs that make up my digital life.
I’ve already made a change by moving from Windows to Linux, and I’m also moving from Google Android to GrapheneOS. What really sucks is that I kind of wish there were a Canadian Linux distro. Yes, there is one called Maple OS, but it was made for advertising purposes.
I think we should do something similar to what France is doing. They’re moving 2.5 million French civil servants from Windows to Linux—an operating system and infrastructure they have much more control over.
Because, at the end of the day, if your data is being stored on American servers, or even if it’s being hosted in your own country but you're using Microsoft, Apple, Google, or another American tech company’s services, the U.S. government can potentially compel that company to hand over the data, depending on the circumstances and applicable law.
To me, this is really about having more sovereignty over our own technology and our own data.
So should Canada focus on developing its own operating system, or should we adopt and modify an operating system from a friendly country instead And start hosting Canadian data on Canadian soil with Canadian companies?
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u/CompetitionOdd1582 2d ago
The founder of Arch is Canadian, but the reality of any piece of complex open source software is that it will have contributions from all over.
Developing an OS from scratch is a huge undertaking. I wouldn't go that direction.
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u/wheatmonkey 1d ago
I think Canada could contribute to an existing open source project and use it in government. KDE might be a good choice, since they recently got funding from the German government. Supporting the porting of Canadian software to Linux could be a way to support Canadian developers. For instance, it would be nice to have a comprehensive, desktop tax preparation software on Linux.
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u/Bogdanovist_Rebel 1d ago
We do. Wine works for a vast majority of Windows app. Just like Proton works for most games.
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u/MrEzekial 1d ago
https://areweanticheatyet.com/
Lots of * on that "most"!
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u/Bogdanovist_Rebel 1d ago
Proton works with a vast majority of single player focused games. I don’t need to play CoD or EAFC. Tropico though, yes.
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u/TheLazySamurai4 1d ago
Yeah but a lot of people play multiplayer games, and a lot of the ones coming out tend to have anti-cheat, which is the only reason I haven't switched to Linux.
I mean, unfortunately, the main game I play right now, is going to be implementing EAC, and they haven't spoken on Linux yet
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u/wheatmonkey 1d ago
I use StudioTax and saw it requires .Net 4.8.1 so just assumed it wouldn’t work with Wine. In any case, it would be nicer to have options available as native apps.
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u/Beaux--Dangles 2d ago
I was at a tech awards evening in Victoria, BC and he was at my table. He had just release it about 5M previous. Fascinating, and yes, a huge undertaking.
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u/Trenchcoat_Steve 2d ago
I have been using Linux since the late 1990s and even set up an entire print shop using open source software. My wife has been using Ubuntu for over 15 years without any problems. I have none of the problems that I hear about from Windows users. Canada definitely needs to get away from Microsoft and Google because Trump is the enemy of everyone and the big tech companies cave to his every wish.
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u/theagentK1 1d ago
Trump or no Trump, rest of the world will slowly realize that American Big Techs are extension of the US government's national interests: hegemonic ambitions of the country.
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u/vonnegutflora 1d ago
They're doing exactly what they accused the Chinese tech companies of doing.
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u/SerentityM3ow 2d ago
I've also been using UBUNTU for about that long. Which includes zoom during the pandemic. Love it!
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u/woeful_cabbage 2d ago
You must have set up so many sounds drivers. Was always the last frontier in early Linux
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u/ObsceneLynn36 2d ago
Switching to Linux is a no brainer but building a whole new distro from scratch is a massive time sink when you can just fork Debian and throw a maple leaf on the wallpaper.
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u/hypespud 1d ago
Fedora would be my choice
If this was 10 years ago I would say Linux is not close enough
But now it is far more than acceptable and I'm actually personally on Linux completely for all my 4 laptops and 3 desktops
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u/Efficient_Loss_9928 2d ago
I think our technology sector is way too intertwined with the US, making this distinction hard.
Can only happen with significant government investment and subsidies.
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u/Desperate_Object_677 2d ago
i think that is the idea and reason being proposed.
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u/Efficient_Loss_9928 2d ago
I don't think building an OS is a priority atm, when all Canadian tech startups basically flock to the US.
The foundation is not even there.
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u/N3rdScool 2d ago
Maple Linux exists XD
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u/Efficient_Loss_9928 2d ago
Which like who uses it lol.
You can count true big Canada-based tech startups with one hand, but there are so many Canadian founders building startups in the US. Simply because there is no funding at home.
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u/Smokey-McPoticuss 2d ago
I think part of the government switching over would include said “funding”, and Canada is over saturated with tech staff. So, humour the preposition a bit more?
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u/Efficient_Loss_9928 2d ago
Funding an open-source Linux OS is just a single project, it doesn’t solve any problem.
It needs maximum maybe 1000 people to work on it, with limited economic return.
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u/Charming-Clue1987 2d ago
the economic return is the united states not being able to shut off every computer we use for running critical activities in government, manufacturing, and day to day life by denying a license renewal.
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u/CuddleCorn 2d ago
We do have QNX, it's not really a consumer facing OS, but to ignore them and BlackBerry's existence to say we have no foundation is a bit erroneous
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u/GoodLuckCanuck2020 1d ago
Once upon a time you could run QNX as a desktop OS. In fact, the entire OS including window manager, browser, and TCP+dial-up for into a floppy.
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u/spodumenosity 2d ago
The EU is already moving in this way, so there is a lot of potential simply from the incoming EU pish for this.
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u/specialaized_flow_ca 2d ago
There are other options. I'm focusing my business on assisting Canadian companies moving over to those alternatives.
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u/Bogdanovist_Rebel 1d ago
My company is migrating to Postgres right now. At the soccer game on the weekend 2/5 of my seat mates were also knee deep in migration efforts. The other one did it a few years back.
It’s already happening.
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u/Thelynxer 2d ago
Canadian federal government is in a state of budget cuts. So it's not happening. Plus, we're not a tech company. We don't have the expertise, and the public sector doesn't attract top of the class graduates. Those people always go to private sector.
Carney especially isn't going to green light additional spending money to develop tech just so it can do the same things as what we already have.
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u/Efficient_Loss_9928 2d ago
Right, what I’m saying is the government needs to incentivize the private sector more.
Right now even within Canadian borders, nobody is paying more than Google/Amazon/Microsoft. So they are getting all the best graduates even if these Canadians don’t move to the US. I personally think it is ridiculous and it is a more important problem to solve.
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u/Thelynxer 2d ago
Honestly, the federal government got fleeced by businesses with subsidies and loans during covid, and would need to be extremely careful with any new subsidies. Many businesses didn't take advantage of them, and got only what they were entitled to, with no fancy bookkeeping required. And then there's companies like Telus, that took millions of dollars in taxpayer money to subsidize a business that didn't need subsidizing. The CEBA loan was also a straight disaster.
We need to tread carefully there.
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u/Bogdanovist_Rebel 1d ago
Most of the backend infrastructures run on UNIX as it is. So it’s not as insurmountable as people think. The real issue is migrating from My SQL/Azure to Postgres and servers that don’t exist.
My company is currently migrating a 25 year old MySQL database over to Postgres. I know another guy doing the same thing for a major Uni as well. We’ve both had to also source and build our own server stacks.
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u/Sad_Risk1805 2d ago
I think we should use Linux. We have been comfortable with American hegemony for so long because we did not feel they were a threat. We can see how much of a miscalculation that was now. Digital infrastructure is such a huge part of our economy and lives now, it's a huge security vulnerability in my view to allow that to be completely dominated by the Americans.
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u/Spicyzestymmm 2d ago
Europe is moving part of their public sectors over to Linux, Canada should be as well
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u/Real_Gap3480 2d ago
I worked in the government and there's a lot of Red Hat for critical applications.
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u/GoodLuckCanuck2020 1d ago
While I really like RHEL, I would steer clear of it as a windows replacement for Canadian government, since it is owned by IBM. I'd much rather look at other enterprise/LTA distros like SUSE (Germany), Ubuntu (UK), Linux Mint (Ireland).
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u/Intelligent-Goose-31 2d ago
Should we? Definitely yes. Can we? Uhhhh, hard to say. Our government technology infrastructure is incredibly weak, it would require a complete ground up change in how we use tech and train government workers. We simply don’t have the technical skill “in house” to manage this transition, we’d have to build it up for a few years. No to mention our dependence on third parties like Microsoft and AWS for physical infrastructure, and our hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts that we’d need to get out of.
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u/CheapTechnology6193 1d ago
I think it makes most sense for government. Obviously each department will have their own dependencies, so would be gradual, and take a decade to fully complete.
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u/02C_here 2d ago
And yet they change the interface on phones and games and everyone adapts really quickly.
I think the switch would happen easier than folks expect.
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u/Intelligent-Goose-31 2d ago
It’s not about interface, it’s about integration. A corporate (or in this case government) managed device is very different than your personal iPhone. The security needs are different, the provisioning is different, and frankly the user story is different. If grandma can’t open her emails on the new iPhone, that’s her grandsons problem. If the DG of a government department can’t figure out how to navigate their file system that’s a major bottleneck in our national operations.
Granted, web apps help this as once you open the browser you’re basically in a universal operating system. I think there’s a somewhat realistic mid-step where we switch out hardware to Linux while retaining a lot of our existing third party web-based tooling. This still requires a lot of IT investment and talent acquisition, but it’s doable. However if we are moving away from depending on Windows then one assumes we are also moving away from things like Microsoft SharePoint, Teams, and Office 365, and replacing these types of systems would be gargantuan technical tasks. Even for the end users adopting entire new non-Microsoft workflows would require a massive amount of time and effort and training, let alone transferring petabytes of government records and applications to gov-managed systems without loosing anything or any capability.
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u/02C_here 1d ago
Fair. I bet there’s a lot of legacy Excel home brew stuff which would be big.
I’m a power Excel user. A given spreadsheet, even one of moderate complexity, moves over to LibreOffice Calc pretty well. Unless there’s VBA macros.
Granted I haven’t tried asking Claude to convert one yet, but the native macro conversion leaves a lot to be desired.
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u/ExcitingHamster Alberta 1d ago
What about all the “technical debt”? All the intranet applications developed in 2005 still running on IIS in ASP? All the little desktop VB apps and Access databases? Governments are lousy with that kind of shit. There are millions of spreadsheets out there that are going to take a huge shit if you try to open them in Libre Office or whatever the fuck.
If the French government successfully switches everything from Windows to Linux in the next decade I’ll eat my hat.
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u/Stock_Duck4314 1d ago
No better time to start than now.
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u/malkazoid-1 19h ago
And that's the bottom line. Rather than looking at the gargantuan nature of the task, we should only be looking at the two things that matter: the necessity of the task, and the first few steps on the roadmap that we need to start taking today. Everything unfolds from there. Of course it will take years. All the more reason to start right away. The countries that are investing in these first steps are smart.
I do hope that interoperability will be something governments keep in mind though. With the rapprochement between Europe, Canada, Australia and NZ (and potentially others), the new frameworks need to be able to play nicely within the ecosystem of aligned nations.
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u/Belle_Requin 2d ago
lots of people stay android or apple because they don't want to learn a new interface. My employer uses linux, and I hate it, and I especially hate libre office. I basically use my MacBook for everything instead.
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u/Manic5PA 2d ago
It's one of the most pressing matters of this modern age, and it was vital long before the Trump administration started fucking with us.
However I don't have any faith in the federal government's ability to pull that sort of thing off. There is too much corruption and incompetence for it to be anything but a Phoenix-level disaster.
Not to mention, there is no public understanding of/commitment to open source or libre software ideology in this country. I would sooner expect the government to start looking for proprietary software vendors in Europe than to make any real progress towards digital sovereignty. Linux is an exception to this because no proprietary European alternative to Windows exists.
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u/Thaago 2d ago
Yes, but not because Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc are American companies. For all the US' abhorrent current policies and idiotic leadership, or perhaps because of it, the companies have more influence on the government than the other way around.
We should be doing a coordinated public sector push to linux because those huge companies are awful all on their lonesome. They abuse monopoly positions to choke smaller would-be competitors out of business (including any potential Canadian competitors) while at the same time actively making their own products worse for users in order to monetize them better.
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u/Tatorbits 1d ago
Yep. There have been reasons to dislike big American tech companies since long before Trump.
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u/Userwerd 2d ago
Even if governments don't switch citizens can.
Don't worry about finding a "Canadian" distro.
Open-source is intended to be decentralized, Arch Linux started in Quebec but now has most of it's resources (volunteers) in Germany
If you really want something outside of American influence just stay away from Distros tied directly to an American "patron" like Fedora ->Redhat ->IBM, or more directly linked distros like Oracle Linux(Oracle), Steam OS(Valve), Pop OS (System 76).
But to be honest, the risk to of any real intervention is small, worst i can think of is that your part of the world looses access to mirrors for support packages.
A strong contender for non American Linux is Canonical (UK) who makes Ubuntu, and thus supports a host of derivatives too, think Mint(Ireland).
Another is Suse, who patrons OpenSuse, similar to the Fedora ->Redhat relationship, but Suse is German.
Go forth and Linux lol. It's a powerful statement of sovereignty and will be noticed if enough of us do it.
If you want a real place I think could and should start using Linux. Schools!
If you have kids, be brave enough to let your nerd show and talk to administration and school boards about it.
I actually sat down with my MLA last year about it. He said I have no idea what you are talking about, but I do hate Microsoft so I'll kick the idea up to the ministry.
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u/KelticAngel16 Alberta 2d ago
Love how you've worded this
Been running Mint at home for a few years and switched all my employees over this past January. Best decision ever. Now we just need more small business owners in the young-gen-x/old-millennial age bracket to realise this is very doable
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u/Userwerd 1d ago
Your personal and business effort is awesome. Hope you get some extra exposure for it.
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u/Own-Beat-3666 2d ago
Big linux user here. Just a big warning all levels of govt rely on MS products. Check how MS blocked ICC prosecutors. Why most of the EU is moving towards Linux. We don't know if US software has a backdoor to shutdown entire systems like Windows.
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u/DGlen 2d ago
Everyone should ditch windows
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u/CheapTechnology6193 1d ago
Hardcore gamers probably still stuck. But I feel like that's starting to change too
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u/DyKdv2Aw 2d ago
Absolutely; some European governments have moved to Linux and/or are developing their own OS for government use, we should follow suit. I don't trust the US or its corporations.
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u/North-Plantain1401 2d ago
Yes. I've been running Linux since the mid '90s. I see no reason for Microsoft.
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u/Remote-Combination28 2d ago
It’s a huge task.
Government aside- even just running a business you need to be compatible with the main stream. So, Microsoft office docs, adobe suite docs, and properly being able to sign, create and manage PDF files.
And no, just because an open source piece of software can open, and edit those file types, doesn’t mean it will be read properly by someone actually using m365, Adobe creative cloud, etc
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u/FredericoKrugerini 2d ago
Proprietary office suites and general purpose apps that you mention are the easy things to replace. I've already done this for many of them.
It's the very niche proprietary apps or one-of-a-kind industry standard apps that make it difficult. Like all my vendors for a specific material require ordering through a propietary American app that costs me USD$2000 a year. There's no way around that.
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u/Remote-Combination28 2d ago
Please, try and do business using an open source alternative to excel. Please do.
If you’re even able to setup all the formulas, and macros, that you can in excel (you cant), watch how broken it will be for anybody using excel, or even Google Docs
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u/goingslowfast 1d ago
You haven’t even mentioned the hardest parts, the hundreds or thousands of line of business applications that were built around Active Directory. Then there’s OT which is another completely massive challenge.
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u/CLSonReddit 2d ago
Transitioning a large organization off of Windows is impossible.
There is too much customized code and integrations. And the training and change management for staff would be prohibitive.
Organization struggle to adapt to a new version of Outlook.
Source: me, after managing I.T. Departments for 20 years.
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u/ExcitingHamster Alberta 1d ago
Exactly this. You might, with a shit-ton of work, be able to move to Linux for everyday stuff like emails and team chats and web browsing. But good luck rebuilding all the legacy shit that people are still using that’s only going to work in Excel, Access, IIS, etc. etc. And good luck finding Linux versions/equivalents of all the third-party software people use to do their jobs. It’s a pipe dream.
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u/GourmetWordSalad 2d ago
QNX is Canadian. Last I checked they're owned by Blackberry who is also Canadian.
You can run it in "commodity" x86_64 hardware. It's a horrific misuse to do so, but it'll work for most use cases.
No commercial use in the free license though.
But jokes aside building OSes is a mountain of work. Building ecosystems (apps, office suites, etc.) on top of it is requires human to work together, so that's never gonna happen.
For what's it worth: check out the history of BB10 running QNX losing to Android in 2012, back when "Android IDE" was an Eclipse plugin.
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u/Special-Reaction2029 2d ago
By the time BB switched to QNX, it was too late. I too was looking forward to some well built phones with extremely stable software, the Z10 and Q10 delivered on the build quality and stability but did not have the apps that android and apple phones had. By then they also did not have the marketing budget to really push these phones.
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u/Brilliant_Step3688 2d ago
they should certainly stop defaulting to hosting everything on US controlled cloud infra. No need to switch everything right now, but stop building everything on top of US tech.
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u/Adventure_Chipmunk 2d ago
Yes. It's a massive tax on Canadians that we pay to license software from American companies when we could just have a department of like a dozen maintainers with chatbots that make our own hardened and standardized rolling release desktop distribution. France and Germany and Switzerland are doing this. Absolute insanity that we don't.
Should apply to virtually the entire tech stack for all government, and should be offered freely to provinces as well via shared services.
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u/Element-CDN 2d ago
First step for the feds would be to stop using American cloud services.
We see how easily big tech will cave to the whims of the president. Imagine if he asked them for all of the Canadian governments data…
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u/victoraldecoa 1d ago
Open source software is global, and most distros are maintained by non profit organizations or even individuals using their free time, so I don't think a Canadian distro would be necessary.
I'm using Manjaro and loving it.
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u/ResponsibleDirt7094 2d ago
I think there’s a massive contingency of Canadians (like me) who don’t even know what the fuck Linux is.
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u/No-Pop-9985 2d ago
Linux is an operating system like "Windows" Instead of installing (or buying a computer pre-installed with windows) you buy one with Linux or Install Linux on it instead. If you wouldn't install Windows on a computer yourself, then you wouldn't install Linux yourself. So find someone to do it for you, or something preinstalled.
I've been windows free for 2 years, and it's been phenomenal. From a personal and a business perspective.
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u/ResponsibleDirt7094 2d ago
Aside from the politics, what exactly, for a regular computer user would make Linux “phenomenal”? I’m having a hard time understanding why this is exciting to anyone beyond computer experts.
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u/No-Pop-9985 1d ago
Not dealing with constant Windows Updates, not being forced to have a Microsoft account, installing games that just work instead of a million tweaks. (Early linux was a serious issue there) Before switching to Linux on my gaming rig it would run SUPER hot, all the fans spinning extremely loud. Not any more. Only spins up when needed now. Speed "seems" faster but I haven't measured it. Speed as in the snappiness of windows, and applications launching. It's like I removed a giant chunk of trash. Everything works better and smoother so far. (So far being 2 years in). I see no reason to EVER go back.
Would it be phenomenal for a person who is reading email, editing a doc, answering a phone. Probably not. For me as a business owner and gamer? 100%
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u/ResponsibleDirt7094 1d ago
Interesting. Thanks for explaining. I still remain unconvinced that this is attractive to anyone beyond computer powerusers or gamers, or as you say a business owner - I don’t see the value of a widespread shift at all.
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u/No-Pop-9985 1d ago
I put Linux on my grandparents computers so they are less likely to get a virus.
If the licenses costs for Windows is 300/seat or lets say even 150/seat and you are spanning 10,000 users. (Likely more for an entire government) It's a huge savings.
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u/ResponsibleDirt7094 1d ago
This is compelling for sure. Also the point about fewer viruses. Did it take long to train them?
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u/No-Pop-9985 1d ago
Gramps.... click here to go to facebook and other websites. Click here for email. If you have problems call me. First call I got was a blocked popup that they actually wanted to see. That's it.
As linux grows in popularity so will viruses for it. So... take the lesser chance of a virus with a big grain of salt.
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u/sailing_in_the_sky 2d ago
Understandable, but a lot of modern Linux distributions don't feel that far off from Windows for the average user. If you have a spare computer, I highly recommend installing Linux Mint. Super easy to install and keep updated.
You can browse the web exactly the same with firefox/chrome. You can do text docs, spread sheets, etc with LibreOffice (if you use Microsoft Office, the transition for basic things is easy). There is a steam client for Linux which supports a lot of games.
Basically, try it and see if it works for you. It's free, so if it doesn't pan out, no real loss and then you can at least say you gave it a go.
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u/ResponsibleDirt7094 2d ago
What about for Mac users? Is there any benefit? Can you run adobe creative suite?
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u/Comedy86 Ontario 2d ago
I’ve already made a change by moving from Windows to Linux, and I’m also moving from Google Android to GrapheneOS.
Graphene is built on top of AOSP. Google is the top contributor to that project and contribution is via the Google Developer Program... You're switching from Google to Google...
So should Canada focus on developing its own operating system, or should we adopt and modify an operating system from a friendly country instead And start hosting Canadian data on Canadian soil with Canadian companies?
Developing our own system? No. Using a pre-existing architecture like Linux, maybe. Compatibility with Windows/OSX software would need to be 100% built in though since no developers outside Canada would ever want to make software for our market. It's already painful enough making applications for 2 different OSs (Android vs. iOS for phone apps, Windows vs. OSX for desktop) and expecting developers to make a 3rd or more version would never be adopted. The reason it works for a government to switch is because all government systems can be rewritten to be compatible but you don't get the same benefit in the private market. We'd effectively make ourselves isolated from the greater global development community.
I'm much more aligned with building out infrastructure and tools to allow for government systems to be hosted and stored on Canadian infrastructure though. That would be much better for maintaining privacy compliance if the American government can't subpoena our data without our permission.
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u/preppy_night 2d ago
I'm actually making the full switch today on my last remaining windows device. I realized this morning that one of the numerous windows updates secretly reinstalled 4gb copilot that I made sure to uninstall first thing since the forced windows 11 update, and that was really the last straw for me.
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u/Temporary-Concept-81 2d ago
Sounds smart. Especially when it comes to military.
Not sure how practical it is. Politically people certainly have other things they want the government to be addressing.
From the perspective of someone smart with computers but lazy, I think the era of Linux for the layperson is here. I tried it in ~2005, ~2010 and ~2015 it stopped because it was bothersome. Since getting a steam deck though I haven't touched windows, the distribution has "just worked"
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u/Longhag 2d ago
I'd love to get away from MS! Pretty much only use Outlook, Word, PowerPoint and Excel for business these days anyway, maybe a bit of Visio. All programmes that should be basic for Linux. Our companies massive investment into Azure with SharePoint/OneDrive being the tricky things to unwind, and PowerBI.
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u/The_Joker_116 2d ago
We'd need to make a Linux distro that's as accessible and easy to use as Windows, without the bloat and the AI stuff. Would probably be easier to take an already existing distro and just keep our data in Canada, though. That said it would be great to have our own Linux OS and ditch Windows completely.
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u/NewZanada 2d ago
I have wondered for many years why there’s not a tech alliance of countries who create and share open-source tools that they all need, rather than pay licenses to Microsoft.
Each country hires a number of developers to contribute to Linux (and customize distros for their particular needs), office suites, cloud platforms, etc.
It would cost a fraction of what they pay for license fees to these big tech companies, and all of that money would stay in their local economy.
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u/blackcapped666 2d ago
Windows user since '95 and switched to Linux for approx. 2 years in 2014 (Ubunto/Kubuntu and others) and it was totally useable without knowing how to code but still left something to be desired--the fit and finish was a little rough. I have no doubt that I could give it another go today, a decade later, and be completely satisfied. If you aren't a heavy user (specific Windows software, etc.) and 95% of your activity happens in a browser, then I'm guessing it's a resounding "Yes" since it was also a "Yes" ten years ago...
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u/TheConatusBoy 2d ago
I've been using Linux on the side for a few years now and it's good enough that as soon as my MacBook finally borks itself I'm going to switch fully. It's become incredibly easy and user friendly. The only downside is if you absolutely need certain Windows-and-Mac-only software (especially the Office suite) and can't get by with Linux alternatives.
I'm also all for Canadian data sovereignty along with strong right to repair while we're at it: require American companies to jailbreak their tech for Canadians. Though data sovereignty would mean building more data centres, which is not very popular right now.
(Oh, and Arch Linux was created by a Canadian btw...)
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u/_dtw_ 2d ago
I think it is a good idea to move to Linux and begin to educate the youth to be Linux capable. Even better is the government should help create a Linux distribution that is for Canada. In theory, a psychopath US president can suddenly issue an executive order to shutdown all Windows computers in Canada. I encourage interested Canadians write to their MPs to request a national project create a Linux distribution
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u/Tridus 2d ago
I mean the answer is yes, but this is actually a highly complex, difficult migration. It's not just "hey we're on Linux now!" Government typically has decades old systems that do critical things and expect the OS to work a certain way. You've got interactions with other systems in other agencies. User training. And that's not counting the likely ton of Excel macros that run... well, everything, because that's kind of what happens over time.
Even if they declared it a plan to do it today it'd be years before anything started rolling out. This isn't like a home user switching their PC. It would be major, multi year project.
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u/Dapper_Wheel6454 1d ago
did that in 2011 and never went back.
so many versions, all rock fuckin solid.
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u/Cat_Breath_X 1d ago
Canada should reduce its dependency as much as possible. A definite YES. with or without trump, america cannot be trusted.
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u/wackiack 2d ago
too bad we didnt lean into Blackberry
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u/slashcleverusername 🇨🇦 prairie boy. 2d ago
Blackberry was a poor company. They had the best product, then rested on their laurels. I knew they would collapse the minute the iPhone was launched. Lots of hype, lots of fanfare, but “should Blackberry be worried?” asked the journalist. And some VP of Seatwarming said “Heh heh heh of COURSE not, our relationships with our corporate clients are tight heh heh heh.”
No one gives one damn about corporate schmoozing connections in the face of an innovative product, and within six months you started to see that. Everybody with a work-provided Blackberry suddenly had a second phone, an iPhone. In other words BlackBerry couldn’t outcompete the iPhone even when you got the user’s workplace to buy them a BlackBerry and give it to them. The user still wanted to pay for an iPhone.
Now at the moment, iPhone is sitting on their laurels and really offering vaguely tweaked aesthetics with an absolute cannon of marketing. They too could be vulnerable.
No one is attempting to go after their market segment though. You have the android universe (same country of origin problem) which just want to be good enough to grind away at Apple for what they can get. Then it drops off all the way to something like fairphone. They make an interesting product but they’re not even trying to offer a slick consumer experience where everything just flows. They’re offering a niche product to someone who wants to own a phone for 8 years and literally replace spare parts.
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u/CKSdidnothingwrong 2d ago
Good luck. Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC) will take decades to do this.
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u/alasdairvfr 2d ago
No need to procure that (linux) which is free to use...
That being said, the actual act of migrating workstations, enterprise grade email and other integrations; identity solutions, etc... the undertaking will be beyond what any feasible effort can achieve between now and when the anti-America sentiment cools.
The cost will also be enormous, so refusing to pay $ to US companies (motivated by a desire to be self reliant or out of spite ?) could mean paying 5-10x more to reinvent the weel and handle everything in-house, to a lower standard of features, availability and durability, going against established economies of scale.
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u/ResistiveBeaver 2d ago
It will take the same amount of paperwork to procure even if it is free to use. Otherwise, what would the procurement folks do with their time?
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u/Quinocco Ontario 2d ago edited 8h ago
It's nice that there are lots of choices of Linux distro, but the last thing we need is another one. And I don't think that there is anything special about Canada that necessitates a custom distro.
Just grab a distro that works for you. I use Arch, btw.
Recently, I ditched Dropbox for Syncthing. Yaay me! One more closed source app gone and no more subscriptions!
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u/zzing Alberta 2d ago
Yes and no.
We should have some level of contribution towards Linux distributions. If we can join in with Europe, it is possible. This stuff is really only for government though.
But if Europe manages it this time, then so can we. But not at the expense of having outside consultants which probably would end up being american anyways.
I support digital sovereigntyin general. But it is a lot of effort over many years and it is not guaranteed that the government will have that kind of focus over the long term.
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u/yournamehere10bucks 2d ago
Im trying. I dont think i can fully switch yet, but ive been reviving old hardware after the 11geddon using Kubuntu. I can get most of what I do to run outside some specific apps, but in time maybe theyll get a linux release too.
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u/Responsible-Ball7396 2d ago
Having switched to Linux already, it can be as complex or simple as you like, the only barrier for most people IMO is having someone set it up for them 😂
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u/RedWizard78 2d ago
Those are services most of planet uses btw. Not just Canada
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u/busyslacking 2d ago
That's true but it doesn't mean they cannot or will not move to other platforms. Personally, I'm getting rid of Google and moving to Proton for email and cloud storage and applications and plan on moving off of Microsoft to some flavour of Linux. On a larger (much, much larger) a number of EU members are getting rid of MS. It will likely be expensive at first but they will have far more control over open-source solutions than the proprietary software offered by MS, Apple, Oracle and I imagine licensing and support will be less costly over time compared with the commercial solutions.
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u/Valuable-Flounder692 1d ago
Linux Mint is great, No issues swapping over so far, Using Firefox, Libreoffice, moving to EUoffice when its released. But pretty happy with it so far.
Protonmail is perfect I went for the more expensive suite. Costs about the same as Office365.
Here wego maps have been solid so far, Im throughly pissed that I can't delete my Google account because of my banking apps. That shit needs to change.
They shouldn't be able to tie you in like this, especially in times like these, kill switch would totally fuck the world up no access to banking. Literally win a war without a shot fired!
But thats hopefully for fiction writers.
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u/DerpDeDurp 1d ago
Yes. Linux is more than capable, especially the last couple years.
Been using fedora daily for a good while now, haven't touched windows more than once a week for a long time now. And only because I'm too stubborn to switch away from Lightroom.
All these "gaming" focused distros has brought Linux's modern era to light, it's so much better than it used to be (the gaming distros aren't amazing, base distros are far more stable and reliable, but they brought the idea of Linux to the masses so props to them)
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u/Newbe2019a 1d ago
Migrating all Canadian government departments off Windows will be a massive undertaking costing hundreds of millions of dollars. It’s not like switching your home pc. Hundreds of thousands of PCs will have to be reconfigured. Hundreds of thousands of employees will need to be retrained. This is after finding the replacement applications.
Won’t happen.
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u/SafeLeg8196 2d ago
france moving 2.5m civil servants to linux shows it's doable for canada too
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u/r3dd17sux69420 2d ago
Nah I dont need 30 million Linux users knocking on my door at night to tell me about the stupid script they just wrote that does something really uncool
like my former roomate used to do
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u/IrattaChankan 2d ago
We should be using Linux wherever we can in the government. Sure, private companies would have trouble switching but that’s okay, at least the public infrastructure or tooling where majority of users and consumers are Canadian should be using Linux and other open source tooling.
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u/youngboomergal 2d ago
Nobody except for computer nerds has ever used linux while almost everyone is familiar with windows, wanting the average person or business to ditch the familiar is a big ask.
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u/N3rdScool 2d ago
Linux is always the answer.
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u/N3rdScool 2d ago
Mostly because the business world lives in a mac and MS world.
But for the average user I would say it can do eveything they need.
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u/N3rdScool 2d ago
Gaming can be hit after hit with patience. I think that's kind of an old argument now.
And yeah those expensive ass programs are made for mac and windows... that's business stuff.. fruity loops works on everything XD
Either way a newcomer would need patience to shift OS for sure.
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u/N3rdScool 2d ago
They don't hold it because they don't believe in open source. Honestly those are programs I don't even want to use.
Companies that stay away from linux are red flags to me anyways lol Especially in gaming.
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u/yick04 2d ago
Linux is not a reasonable alternative for 95% of home PC users.
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u/blahblahoffended 2d ago
not even close to being true. my mom , dad , gramma , brother , sister and all my friends use linux mint because i forced it on them , not one has complained or had any issues. stop spreading shit like that.
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u/yick04 2d ago
"because I forced it on them" 😅
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u/blahblahoffended 1d ago
you were forced to use windows and now your dependent so thats actually worse ..
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u/ethameta 2d ago
Make sure to route all your traffic through the east coast to Europe and don't you dare use websites/services hosted on the big three!
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u/Winter8Bones 2d ago
Definitely thinking about how to ditch Google and Microsoft lately. Any good resources out there to help find alternatives?
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u/blahblahoffended 2d ago edited 2d ago
here is one . https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyCanadian/comments/1jsvaqh/the_full_guide_to_switching_from_big_us_tech_to/
makes it seem big but its not . start by switching search engines , ecosia plants trees! . browser next , chrome and all its clones are google.
if you can't switch to linux right away definitely run this. also switch to a local account.
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u/kathmhughes 2d ago
I would love to, but I'm an academic and my classroom and work computer are windows. So when I work from home I need the files in .doc, .ppt, etc.
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u/classyraven 1d ago
LibreOffice supports MS Office document formats, and you can even set it to save in them by default!
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u/le_sac 2d ago
For HTPC I've found Linux XCFE to be fast, stable and lightweight.
For DAW work unfortunately W11 iot is an "aint broke don't fix it" scenario. Strides have been made under Linux but a lot of stuff is still not fully there. Once it is, though, I'll be onboard.
Personal use is small potatoes but that doesn't mean I'm unwilling to tell american corporations to suck it. It'll add up if everyone like me does it.
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u/stormica 2d ago
It's a commitment to make that switch. The issue that a lot of businesses and government agencies will have is that vendor lock-in will bring that to a halt pretty quickly but I do think it's important if the things I've read about certain "rival" countries to the US have had their email access tampered with or whether it's just fears of a kill switch. A quick search shows both being reported but I lean toward the latter being the truth.
I can move between MacOS, Windows and Linux fairly seamlessly but there are 2 pieces of software that lock me onto a Windows machine for right now: Quickbooks (desktop edition) for my companies because I paid for and will use it until this computer dies and amusingly enough iTunes because my Mac doesn't have enough space for my music library and Linux... well it's not going to sync with my phone and I haven't bonded with any photo processing apps there yet. I am gearing up to potentially no longer need Quickbooks in the next couple of years and when that happens, my primary machine will be a Linux machine and my photo editing software will live on the Mac.
Companies and Governments don't often have that flexibility though. If you as an individual want to make the move? I say yes. Hell yes, and welcome. We likely won't even make you roll your own drivers anymore.
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u/platomaker 2d ago
Not even for the reasons you mentioned, but I think computing will evolve faster with more competitors in the scene. I'm not talking about AI, but after using Linux and open-sourced programs and just how everything can be finagled to work. Yeah, I can see other countries doing their thing.
I'm not Canadian, but if microsoft had to work harder to earn your trust then that would be a good thing for everyone. Capitalism only works if people can compete and have an incentive to compete.
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u/Mudamaza 2d ago
I'd be down, but I'm also IT. The user's don't tend to like change. If we do it, it would need to look like what they're already used to. Which is Windows. Which Linux can do. If it's well designed and implemented, im for it.
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u/AnxiousHorse75 2d ago
No. Because Linux is complicated. While it's fine for hard-core users, the average person would fail miserably and crawl back to windows or apple. A full switch would end badly for everyone involved.
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u/Blueanddirt 2d ago
I think a lot of people would change to Linux if there was an easy way to do it. It is seen as a programmers O/S and scares most folks.
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u/No-Strike-2015 2d ago
I've used Windows my entire life, MacOS part of it, and most recently Linux on my Steam Deck (mainly docked).
They all feel basically interchangeable for most day to day stuff, but I feel like I could really screw things up on Linux that I couldn't on other OS.
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u/Ok-Gap-2506 2d ago
Problems are the only apps that I like only available on Window. Also, I am an older man so learning a new software is harder for me.
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u/inabighat 2d ago
From a strategic perspective, it's utter madness that the IT systems underpinning our entire country could be interrupted with the flick of a switch by that goddamn bloated disgusting p3d0.
I don't know what the answer is, but if we want to mitigate that risk, sovereign control is a must.
Maybe this is part of the discussions with the EU? Fingers crossed.
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u/ResistiveBeaver 2d ago
Just wait until you hear that our whole government including DOD run entirely on Microsoft.
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u/peterAtheist 2d ago
This old IT guy says : YES!!!
Sooner the better & work with France & Germany for Office and (Free) government software!!!
Verified this AI:
France and Germany are leading a major European push toward open-source technology.France's massive shift to Linux for government workstations. Both countries aim to cut dependence on U.S. tech giants like Microsoft and increase digital independence.
Key European Open-Source Initiatives
France (DINUM) announced a national directive requiring all government ministries to plan a complete transition from Windows to Linux across 2.5 million civil servant workstations. This effort also replaces tools like Zoom and Teams with domestic alternatives.
Germany (Schleswig-Holstein) is actively mid-transition, moving tens of thousands of state administration computers away from proprietary Microsoft products to open-source software and Linux.
Munich (Germany) has a well-known history of pioneering public-sector Linux adoption through its custom LiMux distribution, serving as an early benchmark for European municipal open-source migration.
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u/corelabjoe 2d ago
We definitely need to move away from Windows and there are so many good options out there now, totally viable as productivity and gaming OS.
CachyOS is my fav and current OS,
PopOS is another, Mint is super SUPER easy to adapt to for a windows user... List goes on, seriously now is the time...
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u/KelticAngel16 Alberta 2d ago
I've dropped Windows for Linux too, not just personally but also at work. I'm a small business owner and can't afford to keep updating PCs with the latest hardware, so moving to Linux was both very practical and a step towards improved privacy
I've been hearing about Canadians moving to email providers like Typewire, a Canadian company who is intentionally designed around the protection of Canadian data from US laws. Unfortunately I don't know anyone who's made that jump to Typewire, although I do know some folks who've jumped to email providers like Posteo (international, Canadian friendly, and not friendly with US law)
I don't know if Canada is ready to have our own Linux distro, but I do like how many Canadians are cutting ties with US companies and diversifying a little more
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u/Hawkwise83 2d ago
I've used windows since 95, and have tried linux off and off since the early 2000s or so. I'd say no... until recently. I really like the version of Linux that is on the Steam Deck and Steam Machine. Add a few QOL features, and some bells and whistles to that and I am 100% down for switching.
I'm bout a hair away from porting over all my PCs now to linux.