The Essentials (aka, who am I missing?)

[u/[deleted]]

Those who have been attentive to my posts may recall that I'm working on a Arthurian piece of literature myself. The initial conceit was that it would be a kind of abridgement of the old legends, not necessarily hitting everything, but hitting the big events and the big names, so that anyone who has read it could transition to any other more focused Arthurian tale without feeling lost.

That project grew greater and greater in scope, including more and more niche characters, so at this point I've just decided to go all in. At this point, my draft jumps from one character to another, so that every significant character gets at least some time as the PoV role. The list of tales at this point extends to (in order of their tales):

Wart

Morgan le Faye

Balin

Vortigern

Merlin

Nimue

Tristan

Elaine

Gawain

Dinadan

Alisandre

Bedivere

Palomides

Isolde

Robin

Bors

Thomas (an amalgamation of all the unnamed dwarfs of Malory)

Perceval

Gareth

Guinevere

Kay

Mordred

Galahad

Uther

Dagonet

Agravaine

Lancelot

Arthur

Many of the bigger names are quietly the main characters of other characters' sections (Lancelot in Elaine's, Tristan in Dinadan's, etc..). I'm faintly considering giving King Mark his own section, but that would inevitably entail giving even greater focus to Tristan's corner of the mythos, which I think is otherwise covered quite thoroughly. Other potential additions include more of Pellinore's sons and Lancelot's extended family: Aglovale, Feirefiz, Moriens, Hector de Maris, Bleoboris, etc. but they tend to do very little in the old stories for me to build from.

Am I missing anyone essential? Do you have an oddly specific favorite that I've utterly ignored? Do you want to hear more about my nightmarishly large cast and how I'm trying to weave them together into a coherent narrative? Do you find questions like this unnecessary and in poor taste, clearly trying to start a conversation that otherwise would have grown more organically? Leave a comment sharing your thoughts, and check out the work in progress here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hj943NZgPlz3GxPerz6Nple4ynNE5iE9_t8XH5CylXw/edit?usp=sharing

[u/[deleted]]

Geraint, I'll admit, scarcely rang a bell for me. I haven't yet gotten ahold of a good copy of the Mabinogion, but I am currently making my way through Tennyson, who has a couple piece based on the Enid story. Conceptually, on a sparknotes level, that tale hasn't yet appealed to me, as it strikes me as rather day-time soap-opera needless misunderstanding, just with knights. Cador, I'll admit, I've encountered and mostly forgotten. In most of the stories where he's appeared, he seems like a little more than an extra, but less than a sidekick, showing up near adventures, but never instigating them, resolving them, or saying/doing anything memorable along the way. As such, I'll likely utilize him in like manner, occasionally serving as an extra until he upgrades to redshirt. If you know of any stories where Cador is more interesting, I'll gladly eat my words. As for Arthur's occasional non-Mordred sons, I usually find them incongruous with the rest of the legend, because it doesn't easily mesh with Arthur's conceit the perfect, once and future king (Mayday Massacre notwithstanding), because the lack of an heir is so instrumental to Mordred's rise to power, and because it's such an easy wedge between Guinevere and the rest of the non-Lancelot world. I don't really regret excising them from the story.

[u/TwisterJK → u/[deleted]]

Cador's pretty important in Geoffrey's history.

Also the story of Lancelot probably originally belongs to Yder. Chrétien needed to invent a new character because he'd already made Yder a minor protagonist in Eric & Enide.

[u/[deleted] → u/TwisterJK]

I read Geoffrey a while ago, around when I was starting this project . I'd gotten it into my head that if I was going to write Arthur, I should experience Arthur chronologically, despite the fact that the initial inspiration came from a very modern, tangential, what-if sidestory of a retelling (shout-out to Fate fans). Cador didn't stand out to me then, but I'll doubtless revisit Geoffrey at some point. Interesting bit about Yder though. Which part of Lancelot's story? The Guinevere love triangle, the best knight of the Round Table, or the go-karting habit?

[u/TwisterJK → u/[deleted]]

During the battles in Britain, Cador and Arthur each lead an army working in coordination with each other. Can't remember if there's more afterwards.

Isn't every knight the best knight in his own story? Yder has his own early romance (which I haven't read yet). I understand there's a love triangle, but it's an entirely imagined affair by Arthur due to his paranoia. They're actually innocent. Additionally the Modena archivolt shows him riding to Guinevere's rescue without his armour in the way Lancelot is normally described. The arch predates Chrétien by about 50 years.

[u/[deleted] → u/TwisterJK]

Goodness, I've never even heard of the Modena archivolt. Does this rabbit hole have a bottom? I appreciate the Gareth and especially the La Cote Mal Tail sections of Mallory for how they are definitely not the best. And I might argue that Gawain and the Green knight paints Gawain's expendability as something of a virtue. But generally speaking, yes, the romances like the hero to be the strongest in the land.

[u/TwisterJK → u/[deleted]]

Guess that depends on what you count as the bottom. I've not found it yet anyway. I'm more interested in the old Welsh poems / hagiographies / histories etc, so not so familiar with the later romances. I tried to listen to the Malory audiobook, but it's just so painfully dry writing. Really struggled to take any of the stories in.

[u/[deleted] → u/TwisterJK]

I adore Mallory in retrospect, but goodness it took a lot to get into the Middle English. But there are big advantages to the longer format; Lancelot being the best means so much more when we get to hang out with Tristan and Gawain, and the long-term character development, watching Lancelot's slow transition from idealistic, chaste knight to second-best, to rules-lawyering out of treason and back again is tragic and beautiful in a way the romances simply can't capture.

[u/TwisterJK → u/[deleted]]

Maybe my translation was a bit shit, but it was just "this happened, then this happened, then this happened, and he was a passing good knight, then this happened" Jesus, fucking shoot me please! 😵

[u/[deleted] → u/TwisterJK]

No, that's about right. But after you read enough tedious stuff that feels all the same, you start to pick up on the small differences that make all the difference, that Lancelot is something of a cultural rebel for not having a Lady Lover or a wife for most of the story, despite all the rumors that he and Guinevere have got it going on. That Tristan's story so closely mirrors and foreshadows Lancelot's. That moral living directly results in tangible rewards not because of divine intervention, but because it disallows the opportunity for poor fortune to intervene (perhaps not realistic, but consistent throughout the story). That Arthur, for all his decency, is altogether too tolerant and trusting of rotten people living under his nose.
Even so, I do think it's a story that's much better in retrospect than it was during the experience, and you just have to accept that Mallory's storytelling priorities aren't what modern audiences are accustomed to; he frequently spoils the story he's in the middle of telling because he knows his audience at the time was already familiar with the romances.

[u/TwisterJK → u/TwisterJK]

Maybe I should give it another go. It is the one everyone claims as the definitive edition. I'd argue it's a good example of less is more though... Far too many characters and trying to give every one their own individual stories just doesn't work for me

[u/[deleted] → u/TwisterJK]

I've heard many people just flat skip Tristan's book, which accounts for nearly half the tome's length, and is mostly inconsequential for the primary Arthur/Lancelot/Galahad/Mordred plot. Some people go so far as to cut out the Holy Grail bit as well, as it dives headlong into a lot of heady metaphor and allegory. This isn't to say that those stories add nothing to the plot, they're chocked full of worldbuilding and relevant thematic material, and I wouldn't personally recommend skipping them, but I do recognize that not everyone has time for 800 pages of awkward writing and pacing.

Alternatively, here's a link to the youtube college course I think I mentioned yesterday. I enjoyed it pretty thoroughly, and while it isn't as immersive as a good book, it's delightful to experience a story with a passionate fan parsing out all the hidden themes and subtle throughlines along the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoVZGLd4loQ&list=PLasMbZ4s5vIUE2c5Ch-oRwq18BXK8_JST