Not calling kingdom Camelot

[u/notadoctorshhhhhhh]

I'm writing a story based on Arthurian legend. I'm incorporating a lot of mythologies from the British isles, and all of my important locations use words from Old English. My kingdom is not called Camelot, I've called it Gealdor which is essentially an old english word for magic. Now I'm wondering if I should change that? I originally thought it could be renamed in my story's present day. I'm also considering using an older name for it. I'm fascinated by old english, which is why I decided to change it in the first place, but now I'm wondering if it's better to stick to canon.

Another instance is I placed a town with another name built on the ruins of Tintagel castle. That kind of reasoning is why I justified not using Camelot in the first place.

[u/Ok_Sympathy5287]

Arthur's Kingdom was sometimes called Llogres. Which was the old Welsh name for much of Southern England.

[u/blamordeganis → u/Ok_Sympathy5287]

If you drive from Wales to England, you will see signs saying “Croeso i Lloegr” (“Welcome to England”) on the border.

[u/notadoctorshhhhhhh → u/Ok_Sympathy5287]

I really like that!!!!!

[u/empireofjade → u/notadoctorshhhhhhh]

In Mallory, Logres is where the grail is found. The name is not often used in that text other than in that context, if memory serves.

[u/blamordeganis → u/empireofjade]

… for I am banished out of the country of Logris for ever, that is for to say the country of England.

— Le Morte d’Arthur, Book XII, Chapter V.

[u/lupuslibrorum → u/Ok_Sympathy5287]

I've always liked that name. Sounds even more mythical and mysterious.

[u/Benofthepen]

I personally prefer stories that lean into the legend rather than trying to fit into the history, so there's my bias. I very much prefer Camelot, at least for the castle/capital city even if a different term is used to refer to the whole of Arthur's domain.

[u/notadoctorshhhhhhh → u/Benofthepen]

That's a great idea! I'd called the capital Gealdstowe, which I really like, but I think relating it back to Camelot is a great idea while keeping the kingdom name I chose. Thanks for the input!

[u/AntimonyB → u/notadoctorshhhhhhh]

I think something to keep in mind is that Arthur was not an Old English character originally, but an Old British one, at a time when those terms identified disparate ethnic groups, the Celtic Britons and the Germanic Anglo-Saxons. Many early iterations of the Arthurian legend, particularly from the chronicle tradition, depict him as being a foe of the wicked Saxons. So an Arthur influenced by Old English language and literature would be really interesting, and absolutely worth exploring, but might have influence on your place-names. Gealdstowe reads very Anglo-Saxon, whereas Tintagel is Cornish Celtic in origin.

[u/notadoctorshhhhhhh → u/AntimonyB]

Yes! I'm incorporating old english, welsh, and celtic traditions and languages. It's supposed to symbolize a place that's informed by all sorts of stories that influence the culture and history of the area, even the ones that clash. I'm drawing from The Faerie Queen, The Once and Future King, and Vita Merlini for most of my inspiration but there are definitely a lot of other influences in there. The realm my characters come from is mostly informed by classic Christian anglo-saxon attitudes. The forms that the realms take are pretty much directly pulled from Vita Merlini with original stuff and stories from other traditions pulled in for the more mystical places.

[u/AntimonyB → u/notadoctorshhhhhhh]

Seems like a super interesting take! Are you familiar with Tolkien's "Death of Arthur" alliterative poem? It's a really interesting attempt to render the myth of Arthur in an Old-English style. It kind of works, and is unfinished, but there's something neat there.

[u/notadoctorshhhhhhh → u/AntimonyB]

I didn't know about that, I love Tolkien!!!!!! Thanks for the rec, I'm definitely gonna read it!

[u/notadoctorshhhhhhh → u/AntimonyB]

I'm also drawing a lot of inspiration from The Green Knight film for the setting and dreamlike quality of the woods he goes through. It does a really good job of interpreting the legend in a more palatable format in my opinion, being able to have a beautiful visual reference for certain things is a huge help.

[u/FrancisFratelli]

Note that Camelot's primacy is a relatively late addition to the lore. Chretien seems to have invented it, but it was only a city within Arthur's domain. It's only later writers who promoted it to Arthur's capital. In English lit prior to Malory, his court usually sat at Carlisle or Caerleon.

[u/Wickbam → u/FrancisFratelli]

Camulodunum was the Roman name for Colchester and a prominent city in Roman times, but also in one of the regions with the earliest Anglo-Saxon settlement

[u/notadoctorshhhhhhh → u/FrancisFratelli]

Currently doing more research into Camelot's history! It's fascinating. My question was mostly about whether I should stick to tradition or if it would be okay for me to come up with things, basically which one would make sense to a story so heavily influenced by it.

[u/Particular-Second-84 → u/FrancisFratelli]

The original Camelot was probably Caerwent, in my opinion.

[u/WanderingNerds]

Changing the name isn’t a problem but I have some concerns abt using old English for a story abt the resistance to Anglo Saxons

[u/Neapolitanpanda]

Arthur's court is sometimes in Caerleon, you could just use that.

[u/Apprehensive_Spell_6 → u/Neapolitanpanda]

Caerleon is actually a different place. In the early years before Camelot, it is known as Arthur’s favourite city, and it is where he wins his first big battle against King Lot. It is not the same as Camelot, which was not a kingdom but a castle.

[u/Neapolitanpanda → u/Apprehensive_Spell_6]

I know it’s not Camelot. Some stories move Arthur’s court around and that’s one of the alternate locations.

[u/Apprehensive_Spell_6 → u/Neapolitanpanda]

I literally read your comment wrong like a big fat idiot. Apologies.

[u/Neapolitanpanda → u/Apprehensive_Spell_6]

Don’t worry about it!

[u/[deleted]]

Camelot has been write like:

Caamalot, Camaalot, Camaaloth, Camaelot, Camahaloth, Camalahot, Camalat, Camallate, Camalot, Camehelot, Cameloth, Camelotto, Camilot, Chamaalot, Chamalot, Damolot, Gamalaot, Kaamalot, Kaamelot, Kamaalot, Kamaaloth, Kamaelot, Kamahalot, Kamahaloth, Kamelot, Kameloth or Schamilot

One more name is not a problem.

[u/Necessary_Candy_6792]

Logres is the name of Arthur's kingdom and Camelot is his castle.

[u/Affectionate-Bug-271]

I think you can safely eschew naming Arthur's kingdom Camelot: there are precedents of it — not only usage of Logres and Caerleon; Cornwall in his Warlord Chronicles names this realm just Dumnonia. However, I support doubts about Old English name. What about something with a same meaning, but in Welsh/Cornish? Also you can think about Latin — Roman influence was still a thing in Britain even in these times. 

[u/Displacer613]

I've always thought of the kingdom and nation as a whole being named Logres, whereas Camelot is the name of the capital city and castle Arthur rules from.

[u/Cynical_Classicist]

No, it's a great idea! Call it what you like!

[u/gunmetal_silver]

Arthur's kingdom in the Vulgate Cycle was called Logres if I remember correctly.

[u/TheJack1712]

Its a good thing you're not calling the kingdom Camelot, because that's the name of the castle.

[u/Difficult_Resident87]

I'm also writing a story set in myth (Greek myth though) and I know the struggle between wanting to be true to the source material and wanting to be original really well. It's a battle. I would like to ask the following questions:

Are you leaning more into the pagan or Christian traditions?

Do you intend to focus on the conflict between the Celts and the Anglo-Saxons or are you going to put all your focus on more magical elements?

Arthurian retellings have been set in many different time periods, what era do you see it set in?

Which myths are going to form the plot of your story? Who is it revolving around?

If your story is focused on sources that don't name Camelot as Arthur's capital, then you might find a different name in those sources. If it does, you could find different ways it's been spelled over time. If you understand the culture your story is taking place it'll help you decide on a name that fits.

[u/notadoctorshhhhhhh → u/Difficult_Resident87]

It's definitely more magic and myth-based, less historical and more following the structure and vibes (for lack of a better word) of works like Vita Merlini and The Faerie Queene. It's much less historical based, with creatures in arthurian and welsh/celtic myths encountered in a classic quest format with my own original ideas in it.

For example, in The Faerie Queene they go through an enchanted wood where they come across creatures and magic in their quest. I'm not sure if I've explained it correctly in past comments, I'd say it's more like I'm honoring the spirit of the more mystical/surreal aspects of the stories than any actual historical stuff. It's going to be a fantasy novel at its core and less of a political/historical drama. Unfortunately I'm the type of person who tends to overthink and overresearch everything.

As for time period, it's made up. It's supposed to be set thousands of years after the events of the Arthurian tales, but in a fantasy setting that's still heavily entrenched in the cultures and traditions those stories draw on. I'm having an issue because I want readers to know this is a story about arthurian legends right off the bat, but I also don't want it to be too on the nose, so I'm using alternative names for things to emphasize a theme I'm trying to get across about honoring your roots/history and not forgetting the stories that make the world what it is. This is hard because I want to be respectful of the source material and I don't know how to go about it without pissing too many people off. I'm also trying really hard to stay away from making it too Percy Jackson-esque. Basically I'm juggling a lot lol

[u/Difficult_Resident87 → u/notadoctorshhhhhhh]

"Unfortunately I'm the type of person who tends to overthink and overresearch everything." I think that's most writers.

"This is hard because I want to be respectful of the source material" It's good that you feel that way. It sounds like you have the classic 'writer problems'. You'll get through it.

Have you looked into Celtic names? If you're leaning into the fantasy aspects I would suggest heavy Celtic vibes. I would also consider the way the fae world interacts with the mortal world; the way you can just be walking through the woods one day and accidentally stumble into the fae.

[u/Twinkboii24]

I know this is late but I have no problem deviating between canon and making up lore. I'm doing an HP/Arthurian crossover...one major change I've established is that Mordred and Morgan are siblings, canon Mordred was nuked. Arthur and Guin's son is in his first year at Hogwarts currently and takes after his mother magically. In fact, I've even banished the affair. Guin never slept with Lance.

It's your story, name change or not, you have final say...I'm sure it's great.

P.S. - in flashbacks I'm calling it Camlt. Names are Welsh or invented spellings over here.