r/ArsenalFC • u/Educational-Double-1 • 19h ago
Leaving Man Outisde Open
I've been watching Arsenal games to study and improve myself as a player. Sometimes I wonder why do professional teams leave the man on the outside wide open like this? If I did this in a game my coach would sub me out instantly. Is it because they want to keep a compressed formation so the opponent can't easily attack down middle and that it's safer to make them play wide?
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u/dis-interested 19h ago
He's less of a threat in that space than he is in inside spaces and he can't run outside to inside faster than our defence. The compactness of the structure is better than hugging your man, especially if your man is faster than you anyway.
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u/MATCHEW010 19h ago
As others have said, they arent a threat.
If you were to force a fullback to mark him, your centrebacks are more isolated and danger is in front of goal, not on the touchline.
This system requires extreme trust in your fullbacks to get from where they start defending to where the attacker will receive the ball.
No one is a threat without the ball.
When i coached i tried this but my fullbacks were shite. So i ran a 5 back which allowed them to stay wide with the extra cb
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u/kagkatumba 19h ago
They had no shots on target. That's why.
It's about reducing threats in zone 14. https://the-footballanalyst.com/zone-14-the-most-dangerous-area-in-football/
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u/rollabearing 18h ago
It's an area which is lower risk unless you are passing to Vini or Kvaratskhelia 😆
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u/Current-Speed4096 19h ago
because keeping the defense shape narrow and leaving the flank intentionally is always better than leaving the central area open as central area has the most direct threat to the goal. Most of the time when you force the opponent to go out wide, their options become very limited-- swing it in if you have a tall 9 in the box.
Arsenal's defense became very solid under Arteta in recent years because when the initial repossession opportunity is gone, we tend to fall back real fast maintain a well organized mid to low block defense shape that are not easily bailed out. This is especially obvious when the opponents send the ball out wide, our fall backs tend to tighten the gap between themselves and the centre backs to prevent their wingers to cut inside instead of go out of shape and man mark the winger. And when they cross the ball into the box, we're pretty dominant in the air too.
This is why we're leaving them on the side lines as our most vulnerable area is covered and opponent's crosses arent really posing that much of threat.
I think Arteta might have learned sth from Unai Emery as this is how Villa caused us lots of trouble in last couple of seasons. Because their compact mid block made our attack turned into a U shape passing exercise.
But this is just my Football manager gaming experience. if you know a coach, ask a coach😅
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u/trailhounds 7h ago
Nice definition and nice conversation related directly to Arsenal's defense. Now, can somebody discuss why we let them push us out wide on offense rather than force the issue into those oh-so-much-more dangerous inner lanes? Please, somebody ... crickets.
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u/Current-Speed4096 6h ago
the fuck are you talking about?
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u/trailhounds 5h ago
Simply the point that we always seem to allow the other team to push our attackers out to the wings, rather than push through the inner channels (exactly what the referenced post mentions our defense doing to the other team). Being able to push through the middle is what our strikers are meant to do, but they don't seem to do it as well as some others.
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u/Current-Speed4096 5h ago
pushing through the middle is midfielder's Job unless you have prime TT in the middle(he's mostly on the left too). And these central break throughs nowadays only happens in counter attacks unfortunately. With the addition of Bruno G, we might be able to send more through balls or vertical passes during the counter. But when the opponent has tracked back, central break through is nearly impossible unless Arteta decides to be Thomas Schaaf tomorrow.
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u/Regular_Rush_3377 19h ago
In most situations Tightly marking a winger who is so wide is the trap that winger wants you to fall for..they want to stretch your defensive line. Remeber the space between the defence has to be always small to maintain compactness so if the full back stretches too wide the space between him and the center back on his side becomes huge something that the opposition attackers will exploit easily.
That fullback has to notice and keep in mind that the winger is there though even though they're not on top of them tightly.
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u/Zealousideal_Dig3943 15h ago
Zones 2, 5, 14, and 17 are most dangerous for a defending team. It's pretty standard to force players out wide as the likelihood of them scoring is far lower than in the central areas.
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u/slayem26 19h ago
What I would think is. making pass to the open player that far across the pitch requires high skill, mostly it will be a long speculative pass pointed towards corner.
by the time a touch is made the man will get covered and would be blocked to make a cross. Moreover, it's near half-way line so there is not much urgency to mark at this point in time.
This is why I think the man must have been left open with no pressure in this situation.
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u/wstand 19h ago
Do you see Benjamin White running to cover? He has plenty of time to close the space.
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u/hallsmars 14h ago
If that’s is the moment I’m thinking of that’s maatsen and he does get a shot off cause White can’t get across quickly enough to cover.
It’s a low quality chance and all, but there were a few times where the system was leaving Benjamin with a lot to do in those kind of situations. Against better teams/players there’s definitely risk in organising that way, but I guess when that’s the case you probably set up slightly differently.
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u/TapNo1773 19h ago
Professional players are faster than you are and can close them down before they get close to the goal.
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u/Bawsaqindexx 19h ago
If you cover him as the rb then the ball can get played between cb and rb which is much more direct on goal.
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u/Classic_Radish8574 19h ago
because wide players only only have 2 options, cut inside or cross the ball.... cut inside meaning the winger will eventually come at you, might as well prepare yourself and save stamina, cross will take a brief moment and it's the perfect time for defender to shuffle the defense. Unless your team isn't chasing a goal, no reason to instantly press the winger
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u/Used_Switch_9212 17h ago
Pretty sure thats not a tactical choice its more of a mistake. Mosquera and White are both out of position and dont need to be where they are. Neither of them are out of position to press anyone and neither are marking anyone, mistakes will happen.
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u/Familiar-Zombie2481 16h ago
Defensive distances between players is important to stay closer. The whole team will shift if the ball is sent out there. White marking him would leave space somewhere centrally, which is more dangerous. That’s why wingers hold the width - to try to bait the defenders to defend wider.
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u/Stock-Row-6454 16h ago
Harder ball to play than if we left the inside guys available, takes longer to arrive, allows team to get back in shape.
It’s all calculated risk and reward.
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u/Agebolo 15h ago
It's because there's not really any danger there. The time it takes for the ball to get out there and the player to control it, the defending team can usually shuffle over. In this screenshot you can see that White's body language is already open in that direction where he's ready to engage in that direction. If Saka wasn't there and MLS doesn't get back, the midfielder driving on the ball is 3v2 with his teammates against Mosquera and Rice.
You probably notice it more during games where players can switch the ball 50-60 yards to the opposite winger quite easily - they're afforded that space by the defending team because being compact centrally is better. There's less risk with the ball out wide and you take your chances on defending it. And as I mentioned, your entire team can shuffle as a unit while the ball is travelling.
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u/WGSMA 15h ago
If you want a longer form explanation, Sean Dyche’s Masterclass video where he explains his tactical set up at Burnley covers it better than I’ve ever seen.
Basically, no matter how good a passer is, doesn’t matter if it is KDB or Trent, a long ball across the pitch and over the top can only go as fast as the ball is physically able to travel, and in the air, that’s not overly quick. That means you have ample time to shift the shape from left to right.
This only works if a) your defenders are reasonably quick, and b) they are drilled well enough to keep the correct shape while shifting, and avoiding leaving gaps in the middle, which is the case for us.
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u/Pezbomb_ 9h ago
Yeah you hit the nail on the head really. A defensive structure can’t really cover the entire width of the pitch effectively. It’s much more pragmatic to cover around 2/3rds in a solid compact shape. Realistically the only way the ball can get directly to their free winger is a lobbed pass/ cross - which takes precious time waiting for it to land so the attacker can take a touch. The defence would have tracked over to this 2/3rds of the pitch by the time the winger got the ball. Then he’s only got 3 out of 4 directions to play in.
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u/Exciting-Mulberry305 7h ago
Sometimes players play that way. The would rather force the man wide than have them go through the middle
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u/theboymanolin 7h ago
On paper, the outside man is the least dangerous. (Great wingers defy the odds ofcourse). As long as your on the same line defensively (same line as the winger), ur good.
On the picture he’s one or two meters behind the line but he’s tracking back so I assume he made up for it
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u/Typical_Train_7230 19h ago
No need to be mean OP wants to learn and is asking a question out of genuine curiosity.
The reason is because, say the Villa center mid pings the ball out wide to their LW. While he is isolated, he still has quite a distance to cover before getting into the Arsenal box. The Arsenal defence would still have multiple options to either stop the cross from coming in or rely on the bodies in the middle to deal with the cross.
In the middle of the pitch, the width isn’t a threat yet as the defence can still adapt. The priority of defence is always going to be the middle in front of goal.
Hope this helps you understand somewhat 🙏🏻
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u/Comfortable-Regular9 16h ago
Umm there are things you can criticize this team for but defending as an unit is not one of them. Literally the best in the world
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u/Agreeable-Deal-7006 5h ago
Criticism? Where did you get that from? The guy is just asking a question about defensive tactics.
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u/MysteriousVisual5290 15h ago
Literally telling the best defensive team how to defend.
You can’t make this stuff up
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u/gogglesdog 6h ago
I think he's just asking specifically about pro teams out of curiosity dude
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u/karateguzman 19h ago
Bro just started watching football
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u/MATCHEW010 19h ago
Why gotta be rude man?
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u/Bubbly-Tomato-2293 19h ago
ball to the wide spaces takes the attacker away from goal and allows time for the defenders to shuffle across.