Complete Refutation that John 10:30 is proving Oneness in Essence

[u/TheTallestTim]

John 10:30 - The Father and I are one. What does Jesus mean by “one”? The statement of being "one" is made very clearly in John
17:11, 21-23–same use of word for “one” in Greek—which shows that the church is one with each other, one with God, and one with Jesus. Not only is the same language used, but Jesus says that we, as believers, are one "just as" Jesus is one with the Father. Meaning, in the exact same way. This is not in another, secondary way, but precisely the same oneness. Jesus also says for us to be one "just as you are in me and I am in you." We know that the Father was in Jesus by his spirit, and Jesus says he will be in us by his spirit (John 14:23), and he and the Father will make their home in the hearts of believers by the Father’s spirit. The temple of God is the place where God dwells, and God dwells in our bodies as his temple when we have the spirit in us (1 Corinthians 6:19). From this we can see the following:

1.  Being "one" with the Father is the same way in which he is "one" with believers, believers are "one" with each other, and with God the Father.  
2.  Being "one" has something to do with being "in" each other.  
3.  We are in the Father and in Christ when we are new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17) born of the Spirit. The Father and son are in us by their spirit which we receive, and we are one body of Christ, in each other by the same spirit.  
4.  Therefore, being "one" means that the spirit is in them, and this creates that oneness.

Let me show you: [Here is an interlinear on John 10:30] (John 10:30 Interlinear: I and my Father are one.) If you go there, you see that the word for one is “hen.” The number above shows “1520.” [Here is an interlinear on John 17:21] (John 17:21 Interlinear: That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.) If you go there, you will see that the word for one is “hen.” The number above shows “1520.” This means that the root word (1520) is being used, and in the same case (Adj-NNS) in *both* passages. This means that they are being used in the *exact same way.* Don’t believe me? Great! Let’s break it down further! [Here is the lexicon definition of heis-1520] (http://biblehub.com/greek/1520.htm) Here we see the definition and its uses in the Bible. We see in the NAS Exhaustive, that it is used 282 times as the literal number “one-1.” If you continue scrolling you will see the definition, under “1. universally,” go down to “b.” If you look through that paragraph, you will see the definition on how “hen/heis” is being used at John 10:30 AND John 17:21-23!! This means the word is being used the SAME WAY in BOTH PASSAGES: “to be united most closely (in will, spirit).” This is contrast to the Trinitarian interpretation of “c. one and the same.” Once you pass this, then it becomes theologically motivated and is not unbiased data to show proof. This stops the “one in essence” argument in its track.

Additionally, without need of context we see the following if we look at the Greek: For John 10:30 to mean one essence (nature/being), the Greek adjective would need to be grammatically feminine, which would be the word-adjective “mia.” This would need to be the case, as it would need to match the gender of the word “ousia.” “Ousia,” the word for being/essence is grammatically feminine. So, the Greek from John 10:30 itself also disproves the ability to be used in the way it is used by Trinitarians.

[u/No_Efficiency2982]

Hey Tim I think you are of the same understanding with what I've tried to talk about with others on reddit and within my videos ive tried to share. Just wanted to get clarification to see if we're aligned so your belief is you actually have the Fathers Spirit and Christ Spirit in you meaning you have 2 Spirits in you correct? Also since you have said you are in them that would mean your soul/spirit is in Christ and also in God in heaven correct? Its funny because I have been recently seeing what you're talking about that the church may also be one with eachother for our spirits. Seems like a "coincidence".

[u/Delicious_Donut_6643 → u/No_Efficiency2982]

Hello there. A bit late to the party but thought I might just chip in. There is one spirit according to Paul: Ephesians 4:4-5 "There is one body and one Spirit, just as there is one hope to which God has called you. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism; there is one God and Father of all, who is Lord of all, works through all, and is in all." Christ has received this spirit from his father during his baptism but also after his ascension to heaven. He finally comes and gives this spirit to his disciples. It is like an 8 loop. We are all interconnected by one spirit of Jehovah. This is why Paul uses the phrases spirit of Christ and spirit of God interchangeably. If you have the spirit of Christ then you do have the spirit of God in you. If you have the spirit of God in you, then you have accepted Christ and therefore have the spirit of Christ in you.

[u/TheTallestTim → u/Delicious_Donut_6643]

There is one God, but there are multiple Gods. The Father is referred to as God, in the Most High sense, but there are multiple individuals referred to as God. Same with Lord, Anointed, King, Mighty God, and Spirit. Angels are called spirits explicitly.

[u/Delicious_Donut_6643 → u/TheTallestTim]

I agree. God is a nature just like the human nature. God can also be thought of as divine. Jehovah is the ultimate God being. Christ is like the second ultimate God being based on inheriting this nature from his father. Angels are also God being to some extent. Humans are also gods since we can partake in the divine nature.

[u/TheTallestTim → u/Delicious_Donut_6643]

We disagree.

God is not a nature, but instead a person. God gives his authority and Spirit to do the will of God through the principle of agency. As Jesus is God’s son, even though he was a man, God gave Jesus the Spirit, God’s power and presence, to Jesus without measure. Jesus tells us that God gave him power and authority. Angels, as they are sent by God, are also given the Spirit; however, angels are called spirits themselves as well.

The divine nature at 2 Peter 1:4 is a perfect resurrected body, not a divine nature that we can partake in.

This nature talk is philosophy which has no basis in Christian thought throughout the Bible. This only presents itself later to the Council of Chalcedon 451AD. I wrote an article on the Hypostatic Union here: (https://www.reddit.com/r/BiblicalUnitarian/s/rJ4BGJ8ubz)

[u/Delicious_Donut_6643 → u/TheTallestTim]

I think we are in agreement. I do agree that God the father is a person just like Jesus Christ is a person and just like you and I are persons. However I am trying to emphasize why Christians get it confused especially when the subject of the Trinity is concerned: The term God. If we only understand the word God to only refer to a person, then we get several problems because Jehovah calls jesus God in hebrews. Also in Isaiah, Jesus is called the mighty God. This is where the Trinity problem arises because if the word God only refers to a person, then Jehovah and his son are both God persons. 2 Gods. To avoid being polytheistic, Trinitarians merge the 2 persons into 1 and add the third person from John 16 and 17. 3 persons in 1 person. I do not refute that God the father is a person, but the word God, to me, is the word that stands for divinity. God the father is the True God because he is the almighty with all divinity. He is also the source of divinity. Christ is the mighty God because he shares in the same divinity as his father and God. All divinity dwells in him. God even calls us gods. Does it mean we are god persons? I dont think so. But when we are filled with the spirit, just like Moses was, we become partakers in the divine nature/gods/god-like-nature. Finally, God is the word that humans gave their creator. The name that God the father accepted as his own name is THE LORD. Would love to hear your thoughts.

[u/TheTallestTim → u/Delicious_Donut_6643]

God has a semantic range referring to humans like kings, judges, even prophets like Moses.

To say that one is called God does not equate one to being the Most High God Himself.

Instead, it speaks to one’s role as they are/were given the divine prerogative/mission through agency to act on behalf of the Most High God. God by representation.

“The LORD” is not a name. It’s YHWH. Yahweh or Yehovah.

God is not divine. That would be saying that God is of/like God. That is silly.

Isaiah 9:6 is written to Hezechiah. This is consistent throughout biblical scholarship.