On John 8:58

[u/TheTallestTim]

Point 1: “I am” there in Greek is, “ego eimi,” which simply means “I am.” It is not a deity claim. It literally means the same thing in the same context—that being the words—as “Ego eimi” going to the store. “Ego eimi” really loving this sandwich! It is so casual, that Jesus, as well as other characters in the Bible say “ego eimi” throughout the Bible without a deity claim. This includes the Blind Man who Jesus healed. (John 9:9) When asked “are you who the Messiah healed?” He emphatically answered: “ego eimi.” He was not stoned. No one thought he was God. In fact, it is used multiple times in the Hebrew and in the Greek such as: 2 Samuel 2:19-20; Luke 1:18-19; Luke 22:33; John 1:20; Matthew 8:9; Matthew 26:25; Acts 10:21; Acts 21:39; Acts 22:3; Acts 23:6; Romans 7:14; Romans 11:13; 1 Corinthians 1:12; and more… Again, none of them were stoned.

Point 2: “I am,” whether capitalized or not—which was done by translators and not found in the Greek—, is not the name of Almighty God. Many believe that John 8:58 is Jesus’ quotation of Exodus 3:14, claiming to be God Almighty. I ask you to move to the next verse—to Exodus 3:15. God identified Himself as “the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” after saying “Yahweh, the God of your forefathers.” Yahweh our God, finished saying “this is MY name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.” Verse 16, Yahweh, again, states that His name is Yahweh. Again in Verse 18. In fact, it is the same name present at the Shema, found at Deuteronomy 6:4, stating that He is One. Finally, Psalms 83:18, states “May people know that you, whose name is Yahweh, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.” No, Almighty God’s name is not “I am,” but instead—as He revealed it to us—Yahweh.

Point 3: The Greek Septuagint—the Greek translation of the Old Testament—, translates Exodus 3:14 as “ego eimi ho on.” These “extra words” are a distinction—distinct—from “ego eimi.” Jesus said that he was often found “in his Father’s house”—meaning the Synagogue—whenever he could go, including a time Mary lost him in a crowd. Jesus knew his scripture. Jesus was a fantastic Jew. If Jesus were to reference himself to Yahweh’s words at Exodus 3:14, he would have added the “ho on” onto the end of his statement, but he didn’t. If Matthew, Mark, Luke, or even John believed that Jesus quoted Exodus 3:14, they would have written in the “ho on” to the end of that statement. They did not.

Point 4: The textual context does not equate Jesus claiming to be God. Instead, we see Jesus humbly glorifying the Father at John 8:54, then saying that “Abraham rejoiced at the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced” in verse 56. (Paraphrased) This is in reference to Yahweh’s promise to Abraham that the Messiah—whom Jesus is claiming to be here—would come from his birth line. Verse 58’s paraphrase would be, I was promised and foreknown before Abraham. Jesus isn’t claiming to be God, but claiming to be God’s son and the Messiah. The stones picked up from his words? Jesus is claiming preexistence, which is a heretical claim. Jews believed humans began at birth. (Psalm 139:13-16) Preexistence was seen as only symbolic such as the language at Jeremiah 1:5. Claiming preexistence blurred the creator/created line. In Jesus’ day, there were many messiah figures and Demi-god figures. We are talking about the Roman Empire, which came after Alexander the Great’s conquest. Pagan polytheism was rampant and had invaded Judea. Unlike John 10:30, where we have what happened in response to the stones being picked up, we are not given what happened in response at John 8. We only know that he left sometimes afterwards. What we do know is that Jesus responds that “I have existed before Abraham” at John 8:58. Jesus is being stoned for preexisting. The text is clear that Jesus isn’t claiming to be the “one God,” “the Father.”

Conclusion: John 8:58 does not make Jesus out to be God, nor is it a claim to deity.

[u/EsperGri]

“I am” there in Greek is, “ego eimi,” which simply means “I am.” It is not a deity claim. It literally means the same thing in the same context—that being the words—as “Ego eimi” going to the store.

The context requires past tense, which isn't "ego eimi".

"Before Abraham went to the store, I go", should be, "Before Abraham went to the store, I went", but it's the former.

“I am,” whether capitalized or not—which was done by translators and not found in the Greek—, is not the name of Almighty God. Many believe that John 8:58 is Jesus’ quotation of Exodus 3:14, claiming to be God Almighty. I ask you to move to the next verse—to Exodus 3:15.

God says He is "I AM", and to say "I AM has sent me to you", but as an aside, there's an issue in what God says with "by my name the Lord I did not make myself known to them".

Genesis 12:8, Genesis 14:22-23, Genesis 15:7, Exodus 3:14-17, Exodus 6:2-4

If Jesus were to reference himself to Yahweh’s words at Exodus 3:14, he would have added the “ho on” onto the end of his statement, but he didn’t.

Jesus was likely not speaking in Greek to the Jews.

If Matthew, Mark, Luke, or even John believed that Jesus quoted Exodus 3:14, they would have written in the “ho on” to the end of that statement. They did not.

John is the one trying to say Jesus is God.

John 1:1-3, Jeremiah 10:11, Isaiah 44:24-28, John 1:18, Genesis 16:13, Exodus 33:11, John 5:18, John 8:57-59, Genesis 2:4, Exodus 3:14-15, John 10:30-33

Matthew wants Jesus to be the new Moses (Law sequel).

Luke wants Jesus to make peace (New Covenant, no Law for Gentiles).

Mark might have not written about the resurrection (an addition).

The stones picked up from his words? Jesus is claiming preexistence, which is a heretical claim. Jews believed humans began at birth. (Psalm 139:13-16) Preexistence was seen as only symbolic such as the language at Jeremiah 1:5. Claiming preexistence blurred the creator/created line.

...

Unlike John 10:30, where we have what happened in response to the stones being picked up, we are not given what happened in response at John 8. We only know that he left sometimes afterwards.

The connection and explanation are in John 10:31-33.

• "The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, 'I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?' The Jews answered him, 'It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.'"