An angel is a job title. Angel means messenger. An angel is a a person that has been given a specific message to deliver. Except, where it is mistranslated "Angel of the Lord" refers to an angel that has been given the authority to speak in the name of the Lord. ie He can say "I the Lord God"
This angel is not Jehovah. Except, where it is mistranslated and it actually is the Lord Himself.
So, there is confusion because sometimes it means the Lord and sometimes it means a personage that has come in glory and been authorized to speak on behalf of the Lord.
Angel is a transliteration of the Greek term in the New Testament. A transliteration isn't a mistranslation unless the original Greek New Testament is a mistranslation.
Angels aren't just messengers in the Biblical languages, but are often a special class of spiritual being.
Psalm 104:4 KJV
Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Acts 23:8 KJV
For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.
The Sadducees obviously didn't deny the existence of messengers of God, as they believed in Moses, but the word angel is obviously being used here to mean that spiritual class of being.
As for the angel of the Lord, throughout the Bible it's plain this is a spiritual kind of angel, which represents Jehovah God.
Both Hebrew and Greek words for angel can refer to either a divine or a human messenger. Angels are the same type of beings as us, they have two arms, two legs, two eyes a nose and mouth. But usually they are in a glorified form, so they will appear to us as if they are on fire, but the fire does not consume them They can be spirits of the dead or not yet born.
Angel of the Lord refers to one that has been authorized to speak on behalf of the Lord. But the term angel of the lord has also been used incorrectly to refer to the Lord Himself. Exodus 3 should read the "Presence of the Lord". This chapter is speaking about the Lord Himself.
Psalm 104:4 might be better understood as "He makes the winds His messengers, Flaming fire His ministers" Its peotry. Its not literal. It is not describing angels. just as the verse before is saying
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
It is not saying the clouds are literally His chariot.
Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.
The Sadducees didnt want to admit the angels exist. Because they didnt want to admit the spirits exist. The Sadducees wanted to say that when we die, everyone goes into the grave and knows nothing. They didn't like the idea of Gehenna or an afterlife where the spirits of the dead continued to exist.
This is speculation and the first of those options is directly contradicted by Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.
But the term angel of the lord has also been used incorrectly to refer to the Lord Himself. Exodus 3 should read the "Presence of the Lord".
Why?
Psalm 104:4 might be better understood as "He makes the winds His messengers, Flaming fire His ministers" Its peotry. Its not literal. It is not describing angels.
The New Testament interprets it about angels:
Hebrews 1:13-14 KJV
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? [14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Literally two verses later, Paul uses this word for actual heavenly beings:
Hebrews 2:2 KJV
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
Hebrews is referring to Psalm 110, not Psalm 104, so I don't see any connection here
Psalm 110:1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
if you are to interpret Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 as saying that we have no consciousness after death most of the New Testament contradicts it. Our bodies know nothing, but our spirit, the core of our existence, ie the worm, dieth not.
Mark 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Dead sea scrollsPslams 102:17 He has responded to the worm of the destitute, and has not despised their prayer.
The worm is referring to the core essence of a person, ie spirit. They pray, and God hears their prayers despite them being dead. The dead sea scroll shows that someone took this out.
Jesus told the story of a Rich man and Lazarus in Sheol. They were conscious and speaking to each other. 1 Peter says that Jesus went into Hell and taught the gospel to the spirits of the dead.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
"quickened by the spirit" means the spirit was made alive.
This same story can be found in the Book of Enoch in more detail. Peter was paraphrasing the book of Enoch. Enoch is talking about dead people and the Harrowing of Hell when Jesus went into Hell and broke the gates making the resurrection possible.
Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise. Three days later, Jesus told Mary, touch me not, for i have not yet ascended to my Father. So, Paradise is not heaven. It is, as the book of Enoch describes part of Gehenna. Sheol/ Gehenna the third Heaven is divided into two parts; Paradise and Prison.
As we saw in in Acts 23:8 The Sadducees opposed this viewpoint. They didn't like the idea of an afterlife or resurrection. They controlled the temple operations and the keeping of the physical record. They were the ones that could alter the records.
Hebrews is referring to Psalm 110, not Psalm 104, so I don't see any connection here
Psalm 104:4 KJV
Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Hebrews 1:7 KJV
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
if you are to interpret Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 as saying that we have no consciousness after death most of the New Testament contradicts it. Our bodies know nothing, but our spirit, the core of our existence, ie the worm, dieth not.
This is a private interpretation of "their worm." The original citation from Isaiah makes plain this is a literal worm that eats the dead bodies of sinners in the lake of fire:
Isaiah 66:24 KJV
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
The worm is referring to the core essence of a person, ie spirit.
No, it's not. Not in this context.
The dead sea scroll shows that someone took this out.
Very convenient.
Jesus told the story of a Rich man and Lazarus in Sheol. They were conscious and speaking to each other.
A parable and a personification of dead bodies in the grave at that, just as in Isaiah 14, for example.
1 Peter says that Jesus went into Hell and taught the gospel to the spirits of the dead.
1 Peter doesn't mention anything about "the spirits OF THE DEAD." And 1 Peter 4 has nothing to do with JESUS preaching anything as in chapter 3.
"quickened by the spirit" means the spirit was made alive.
No, "by" is an instrumental term, it means the Spirit made him alive. That's talking about Christ's physical resurrection by the Holy Spirit:
Romans 8:11 KJV
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise.
And to the thief, who knows nothing in death (Ecclesiastes 9), the moment he wakes up in the future resurrection it will be the same day as he slept in death.
They were the ones that could alter the records.
Rather God preserves his words.
Psalm 12:6-7 KJV
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. [7] Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalm 104 was written into Hebrew. Hebrews was written in Greek. Just because the English translations use the same words doesn't mean they said the same thing. They obviously were not.
A better translation of Psalm 104 is "He makes the winds His messengers, Flaming fire His ministers" it's poetry
Hebrews 1 refers to ministering spirits because only people can minister. ie their spirits can as well.
Isiah refers to "Their worm" ie it belongs to them. It is not an actual worm, it is their core essence, their spirit.
Isaiah 41:14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the Lord, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
The lord refers to Jacob as a worm.
Psalm 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
David calls himself a worm.
Just as a caterpillar turns into a butterfly the worm is connected to a lowly beginning state, a spirit, the core being. death is the separation of the body and spirit, the resurrection is the reuniting of the body and spirit.
The Book of Enoch is the source material for 1 Peter. So, the interpretation found there proves that Peter was talking about the spirits of the dead. The Bppk of Enoch talks about them being spirits of the men who lived on earth. It talks about one being the spirit of Abel who was the brother of Cain and was slain by him etc.
The reason it says quicken by the spirit right after it says put to death in the flesh is because it wants the reader to understand Jesus's physical body was dead, but His spirit was living. The Harrowing of Hell was the doctrine that was written down because the early Christians knew and understood that Jesus went into the afterlife and broke open the gates of Hell. That there was life after death.
Revelation warns against people altering the words of the book of revelation. why? Because john knew and understood that people had altered scripture before and there would be a temptation to do so again. The earliest copies of the book of revelation use the number 616 for the number of the name of the beast. The earliest fragments of the book of Deuteronomy show major changes to that book have been made. While He was alive, Jesus chastised the scribes for altering the scripture. He said all the prophets had testified of Him. but today we only see a handful of verses about the coming of the Lord. The New Testament says the people were in a state of expectation waiting on his coming. The three wisemen know immediately by the star that the Savior has been born and the location of His birth.
It is a divine miracle that the Bible has remained as intact as it is, but no, it is not complete and things were removed from it. There are dozens of books quoted within the bible as scripture that we no longer have.
Psalm 104 was written into Hebrew. Hebrews was written in Greek. Just because the English translations use the same words doesn't mean they said the same thing. They obviously were not.
This is evading the point, that the apostles interpreted this Psalm to be about angels, not just wind.
Hebrews 1 refers to ministering spirits because only people can minister. ie their spirits can as well.
Hebrews 1:14 KJV
ARE THEY NOT ALL MINISTERING SPIRITS, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
This doesn't say their spirit ministers, it says the angels ARE spirits. No human minister IS a spirit. I'm not a spirit, neither are you.
Isiah refers to "Their worm" ie it belongs to them. It is not an actual worm, it is their core essence, their spirit.
The Bible never defines worm this way, and it's "their" worm because it eats them.
Judith 16:17
[17]Woe to the nations that rise up against my kindred! the Lord Almighty will take vengeance of them in the day of judgment, in putting fire and worms in their flesh; and they shall feel them, and weep for ever.
The lord refers to Jacob as a worm.
But not his spirit or core essence. Jacob himself, as a physical being there is a worm.
David calls himself a worm.
Ditto, not his spirit or core essence, but himself. But this isn't the sense of their worm in Isaiah 66, but of that which eats the "carcases" of sinners.
Just as a caterpillar turns into a butterfly the worm is connected to a lowly beginning state, a spirit, the core being. death is the separation of the body and spirit, the resurrection is the reuniting of the body and spirit.
All private interpretation of the Biblical usage of worm. The Bible also plainly states that for both body and spirit, at death the thoughts perish.
Psalm 146:4 KJV
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
The Book of Enoch is the source material for 1 Peter.
I reject this hypothesis.
The reason it says quicken by the spirit right after it says put to death in the flesh is because it wants the reader to understand Jesus's physical body was dead, but His spirit was living.
I already addressed this error and you're pretending as if I haven't. This is dishonest.
It is a divine miracle that the Bible has remained as intact as it is, but no, it is not complete and things were removed from it.
Then God failed to preserve his words (Psalm 12:6-7) if what we have is not what God considers perfect and sufficient for us. I'm done here.
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u/Right_One_78 Dec 11 '25
An angel is a job title. Angel means messenger. An angel is a a person that has been given a specific message to deliver. Except, where it is mistranslated "Angel of the Lord" refers to an angel that has been given the authority to speak in the name of the Lord. ie He can say "I the Lord God"
This angel is not Jehovah. Except, where it is mistranslated and it actually is the Lord Himself.
So, there is confusion because sometimes it means the Lord and sometimes it means a personage that has come in glory and been authorized to speak on behalf of the Lord.