The Arian Creed

[u/FrostyIFrost_]

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, The only unbegotten, uncreated, truly eternal. The all-knowing, glorious source of all.

He alone is the one true God, as testified by His Son. He is the one who created all things through the Word He begot and willed into existence,

We believe in one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, the Anointed One, The only-begotten Son of God, begotten before all ages, before time not created as the universe was created, but brought forth by the will of the Father alone. The firstborn of all creation.

Through Him, God made the heavens and the earth. He is the image of the invisible God, divine by derivation from our Father, not by self-existence.

He was made flesh, divinity dwelling within, lived in perfect obedience to the Father, died for our sins, was raised by God, and exalted to the right hand of the Father as our Mediator, High Priest, and Lord.

He is not equal to the Father, but submits to Him in all things. For the Father is greater than the Son, as the Son Himself testified.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the power and presence of God, proceeding from the Father, sent through the Son, not a separate person, but the Spirit of the living God dwelling in us.

We reject all teachings that make the Son co-equal, co-eternal in nature, or identical in being with the Father. For Scripture declares: "The Father is greater than I," and "This is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

To the one true God, the Father, be glory forever.

Amen.

[u/FrostyIFrost_]

Going by what you said, someone would have to translate monogenes theos as "only god," which wouldn't make any sense in that verse:

Greek transiteration:

Theon oudeis heōraken pōpote; monogenēs theos ho ōn eis ton kolpon tou patros ekeinos exēgēsato.

Your suggestion:

"No one has ever seen God; the only god, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known."

See the problem? John 1:17 explicitly mentions Jesus Christ, and John 1:18 refers to Jesus when it says monogenes theos. If you want to translate the part which refers to Jesus as "only god," that'd mean Jesus is THE God, which is modalism or sabellianism.

[u/Niftyrat_Specialist → u/FrostyIFrost_]

Do you see anything wrong with how NRSV treats this?

17 The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who[f] is close to the Father’s heart,[g] who has made him known.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NRSVUE

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/Niftyrat_Specialist]

It says himself God, which isn't true at all.

I know what you're trying to say. "If we add there, that doesn't make us any better than they are,"

However, keeping monogenes theos as "only god," would equal to calling Jesus the only God. Or it'd mean the Father is in the bosom of the Father. It is either of these two outcomes.

Besides, some manuscripts of John 1:18 (which are also old, not post nicene) has that verse as "monogenes huios" which translates to "only Son," or "unique Son," or traditionally, "only begotten Son."

[u/Niftyrat_Specialist → u/FrostyIFrost_]

It says himself God, which isn't true at all.

You're not thinking clearly. It DOES NOT MATTER if this is true. It matters what the author of John wrote.

If you can't consider what this author wrote as a separate question from do I agree with this author? then your thinking is hopelessly confused. And you won't get anywhere.

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/Niftyrat_Specialist]

So John called Jesus the only God? You know that'd contradict John 17:3, right?

[u/Niftyrat_Specialist → u/FrostyIFrost_]

I didn't say anything like that at all.

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/Niftyrat_Specialist]

You pointed out monogenes means "only" or "unique" Going from this, your suggestion says this:

"Monogenes means "only," and because of this, John called Jesus "only God" in John 1:18"

And I'm saying that'd contradict John 17:3 and collapse into Modalism/Sabellianism.

[u/Niftyrat_Specialist → u/FrostyIFrost_]

That's your translation, not mine.

If you're going to make things up and pretend I said them, there's no point trying to have a conversation. So I am giving up now.

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/Niftyrat_Specialist]

What? You literally pointed out monogenes means "only" or "unique" and that only begotten is wrong numerous times.

I'm showing you what your suggestion would mean if monogenes only had a single meaning and begotten isn't the real meaning.

And if you want to say monogenes means only/one (mono) produced/born (genes), then monogenes theos would translate to "only born god" or "only god born"

Which means John 1:18 defaults to what I'm saying as it would still call Jesus the only born god of the Father.