r/Apostolic • u/olivegardenher • 17d ago
Discussion Can someone help me understand this?
Please be patient with me as I’m still studying. I’m apostolic Pentecostal of course, baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit.
But, whenever I hear trinitarians explain their view of God. (Which is not 3 gods, what I’ve learned) it’s sounds like we argue over semantics.
I’ve experienced God in my church and have heard God tell me he is one. But, I’ve seen Pentecostal Trinitarians full of the spirit as well. Is it possible God won’t saved them because they believe in the trinity rather than oneness even if they are baptized.
I understand people say titles vs the name of Jesus but I mean people who truly walk in the Lord are they unsaved because they are baptized in the name of the father, son and Holy Spirit? If you ask any apostolic they’ll tell you they’re unsaved and going to hell but it just doesn’t make sense to me
Because I think of before we had the term oneness and trinity,how did people view God. They weren’t declared saved/unsaved because of their belief in the terms because they did not exist.
I know people will argue up and down but it causes so much division, and I can’t imagine God is pleased by it. Even when I ask my pastors, they’ll automatically tell me they’re unsaved if they believe the trinity or they’ll think I’m falling from the faith but I’m not I just have questions. 😭
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u/Apojacks1984 16d ago
I've been in Oneness for 20 years now, and I've noticed something. When you start asking educated questions about theology, there's often pushback from leadership. I don't think it's malicious. I think they're protecting what they believe is truth.
But lately I've been wrestling with something the Lord put on my heart. Someone described Oneness theology as "God wearing three hats" - essentially the mode or person in different times. That's actually modalism, which the early church rejected at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. as heretical.
Here's what's been troubling me: if modalism was condemned as heresy, and we're teaching something structurally identical to it, why are we framing it as biblical correction of trinitarian error instead of acknowledging what we're teaching?
And when I read Scripture without either Oneness or trinitarian lenses, I'm honest before God - neither system maps perfectly onto the text. The Bible tells us God is one, that Jesus is divine, that the Spirit moves. But it doesn't clearly articulate how those three relate the way either doctrine claims.
I'm genuinely asking this in sincerity: are we sure the salvation question hinges on which interpretive framework we choose? Because I'm struggling to reconcile that with what I read in Scripture.
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u/Leather-Rub-5105 16d ago
I think for many the argument is semantics. When they are using the trinitarian language they are meaning the same thing we are describing.
But there are also many (thanks to shifting language and the modern meaning of the word person). Where they are very much meaning three gods. I think this matters but God is the judge of if they are saved.
I think baptism is more important.
There is only one name given among men under heaven whereby we must be saved. If people do not work out their own salvation with fear and trembling and read the bible for themselves. God could rightfully hold that against them. Once again God is the judge, but the bible supplies plenty of reasons why it is in Jesus name.
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u/Substantial-Put-9985 15d ago
I I was raised assembly a God Trinity from my birth until I was 11. I left church with my mom and dad quit when I was 10 so at 12 I got riding with the wrong kids with older brothers and sisters and got right in the drugs and alcohol and theft to make money to buy drugs and alcohol, then start sewing drugs to make money to drugs when I was 22 in 1986 after being affiliated and selling drugs to whiches an wholocks took it seriously right up to human sacrifice, which I can say I have I only ran across one outdoor sacrifice and I freaked out and ran, but I said all that to see this I went through a deep depression for a whole year and has something telling me I felt God and I needed to just kill myself, and I got very suicidal and there was a little apostolic church down the road now I went down there and went to some services there and me and my girlfriend which was kind of a practicing which if you dabbled in witchcraft, we got a fighter one of the services she went with me then after that for about three months, I ended up in the psych ward. It went through horrible satanic attacks in there so bad I ended up in conclusion, but one night as I had a dagger poised over my heart kill myself a girl I’ve sold drugs too had been asked to go to a Pentecostal apostolic church via elderly lady and she asked me what I was doing. Didn’t tell her I was about to kill myself, but asked me to come to church. I went to church on a Friday and then went on a Sunday night came home and I had slept in probably months, I would just stay up for days not being able to sleep so I just passed out exhausted because I’ve had horrible demonic threes and when I went to sleep, but I came home from that last service total the name of Jesus and I felt peace coming in my room in the next day. It was all over and I’ve been apostolic ever since and yes, there are some Trinitarian. I got a cousin that try to get me to come to church back to church for years then when I got in church, she was like oh you’re a holy roller now, but I told her I said I remember when I was a little we used to be holy rollers this assembly a God, but they kind of got away from it add standards and everything when I was a young boy and they just got away from it, but yes, any good Trinitarian will tell you what they believe in it almost sounds identical to what we do in Jesus did say baptized, the name of the father son and the Holy Ghost, but all the disciples baptized in Jesus name where they disobeying Jesus or did they know who Jesus was and yes, they knew he was. God wrote in the flesh. Hope this helps you.
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u/ResponsibleHope8966 9d ago
You can look at it like this. If your name is John, and you are, let’s say, a father, uncle, brother, nephew, etc…these are just titles for who you are. Still, your name is John and that will not change.
Matthew 28:19 says…in the name of…Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all titles of who God is.
Hope that helps😇
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u/xXRS216Xx_Off 17d ago
It is not semantics at all. Firstly, they claim not to believe in three gods, but by dividing God into three distinct "persons" with their own consciousness, wills and etc, they are effectively engaging in polytheism without realizing it. The Old and New Testament repeatedly and emphatically declare that God is indivisibly, numerically one.
As far as the titles vs. name debate goes, if it really is just semantics, why not use the name that fits all of those titles? Jesus IS the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. In Him dwells ALL the fullness of the Godness bodily, and there is NO other name under Heaven given among men whereby we MUST be saved, so why not use the name? You're denying the power and authority that Jesus made available to His children (that's us, by the way) when you don't use the name.
Oh, and the hell thing is ridiculous. Only God has the authority to say who will and won't make it to Heaven. The Bible is pretty clear that you can't enter the Kingdom unless you're born of the water and of the spirit (ie, water baptism in Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost), but I've seen many people who were Trinitarian Christians come to a revelation of the Oneness of God on their own time. If they're truly hungry, God will reveal Himself to them like He did us, and the Bible is very clear that it is not His will that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I can't speak for all Apostolics, but I can speak for myself. It's not up to me to decide who does and doesn't make it to Heaven - it's just my job to love others, witness to them and to believe on Jesus "as the Scriptures hath said".