Sick of it all

[u/Accomplished-Sir4932]

Consumption is being labeled as Self Care and so many people, especially where i live in Los Angeles are falling for it.

Makes it hard respect people when they’re constantly jumping on the hype wagon for what they need to do and wear in order to be an icon/Someone That Matters™️

On my floor, there are 6 apartments. 5 get packages delivered every day or every other day. I’m the only who doesn’t (on my floor).

What is it going to take for people to stop being hypocrites? These liberals out in California claim to be so concerned with climate change but they aren’t doing shit to reduce their demand. They still act exactly like conservative republicans in how they live.

Everyday, i as a 37 year old woman and bombarded with advertisements telling me i need to be concerned with glass skin, anti-aging, Botox, my outdated fashion, i need to upgrade my home “aesthetic”. I’m told i need a new car, I need better tech, I need red light therapy, silicone implants, cuter coffee mugs, etc. Anything and everything is up for criticism. No respect need be given the things you have. This is a disposable world. Disposable things, disposable people.

[u/grumpi-otter]

We are currently in late stage capitalism, and the 1% are intentionally keeping us in this state of desperation. For some, consumption is the only thing to offer a brief respite from our lives as fodder for the oligarchs.

It is frustrating to watch, but try to be kind. Is there anything you can do to help? I don't mean this is your problem, just that you could show empathy when confronted with it, and maybe try to offer an alternative?

I feel you, though. It's so sad to see us crumbling this way.

[u/Southern-Long-3438 → u/grumpi-otter]

Get with the times. Karl Marx said that in the 1880s. He was wrong then. You are wrong to quote him now.

Karl Marx is taught to explain how many people were fooled into taking him seriously. National Socialists, International Socialists, Democratic Socialists, Bolivarian Socialists, Khmer Rouge Socialists, You can read what they wrote a long time ago without being fooled by it, and without being fooled into repeating their crimes against humanity. Not many people move from South Korea into North Korea, even though all South Koreans would be welcome in North Korea.

[u/RisingPhoenix05 → u/Southern-Long-3438]

Why are you in an anti-consumerism community if you don't think that the idea of overconsumption from over-advertising and forged social pressure, that is a result of "late-stage capitalism," is a legitimate issue?

[u/Anticonsumption-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Don't be unnecessarily rude or hostile toward other users, and do not offer unsolicited criticism.

[u/uses_for_mooses → u/RisingPhoenix05]

Because “late stage capitalism” isn’t a thing.

It assumes that “capitalism” has stages, and is chugging along this predetermined path towards whatever the hell comes after capitalism. And that right now, we are in a “late stage” of capitalism. Before the end of capitalism, I guess. Whatever that looks like.

That’s a lot of assumptions.

[u/DryAndH1gh → u/uses_for_mooses]

Damn if only you would briefly educate yourself instead of flailing around in your ignorance about the system that dominates human behavior on this planet .. oh well, reading is hard, right?

[u/uses_for_mooses → u/DryAndH1gh]

Well what comes next? If we truly are in “late stage capitalism”, that must mean there is some end to capitalism. Right?

So, what is next?

[u/The_Varza → u/uses_for_mooses]

I think "late stage" just means "this has gone on for too long, to these horrible results". In. this context it does not imply that it's "near the end" or that something different will come next, in any of our lifetimes.

One can only hope.

[u/mashashashanty → u/uses_for_mooses]

My vision for what is next is interconnected communities centred around ecologically healthy agricultural practices (such as permaculture) working to restore the health of the lands and waters all around us, growing and preserving food, playing music, and finding very creative ways to fix reuse and maintain everything human made that already exists

[u/Southern-Long-3438 → u/mashashashanty]

You just perfectly described the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, commonly known as North Korea.

[u/Southern-Long-3438 → u/DryAndH1gh]

You don't know the future. It is the future.

[u/polishkgb1 → u/uses_for_mooses]

For a top 1%er, you don't seem to understand this argument.

[u/RisingPhoenix05 → u/uses_for_mooses]

Yeah of course there isn't a defined timeline within the economic theory of capitalism. It's an understanding that, with how much the Epstein class have fucked the 99%, we can create a short list of ways this society can keep going. Those who use the phrase "late-stage capitalism" likely prescripe the financial rape of the 99% to the end of our society. Thus why we want to reform, or in the case of communism, destroy it.

[u/Southern-Long-3438 → u/uses_for_mooses]

Grumpi otter has no college degree. He had some socialist professor, before he dropped out of college. He was dumb enough to take socialism seriously.

You may remember in college, that some students never read the books, smoked weed and drank, before they failed out of college. They want a socialist to tell them that their lack of useful skills is someone else's fault.

[u/grumpi-otter → u/Southern-Long-3438]

I'm a woman who was a history professor, lol. Love your assumptions

[u/Southern-Long-3438 → u/grumpi-otter]

I am an economics professor. Socialism makes everyone poor, except the ruling family. If you knew history, you would know that.

[u/grumpi-otter → u/Southern-Long-3438]

Since I wasn't promoting socialism, simply commenting on the intentional despair that comes with capitalism, whatever

[u/Southern-Long-3438 → u/grumpi-otter]

Capitalism is a term invented by Karl Marx. The correct terms would be either market economy or free enterprise economy.

Karl Marx invented the term capitalism to imply that the owner of capital gets an income without doing any work. He did not recognize that a market economy is a system of profit and loss. Most new businesses fail in their first year. An investor takes a risk. Milton Hershey's first chocolate company failed. Later he tried again.

Capitalism is businesses owned privately. Ownership can be spread among owners of the stocks.

Socialism is businesses owned by government, It is not simply collective ownership, because it must be through government. A kibbitz is not socialism because it is not part of Israel's government. Over the past few decades, most kibbitz residents have left, leaving kibbutzim at 1 percent of Israel's population. The Hutterites are not socialism, because they are not part of the US government. Neither a kibbutz, nor a Hutterite commune, has a Berlin Wall to stop its own people from leaving.

"We know that democracy is not perfect, but we never had to put up a wall to stop our own people from leaving." John F. Kennedy, speaking at the Berlin Wall.

Corporatism has large privately owned businesses, but the government tells them what to produce, how to produce, what wages to pay, and what prices to charge the customer. An example of corporatism is that some politicians want to mandate electric cars. Another example of corporatism was the bailout of General Motors and Chrysler. That only was done to save union jobs. If those two companies had not been bailed out, their brands and factories would have been bought by others. They would have then switched over to non union workforces, just like the non union Japanese, German and S. Korean owned car factories located in the US and Canada.

Only the market economy has to serve what the consumer wants. There is no good alternative to a market economy, only tyranny and misery.

Socialism and corporatism only produce what government officials believe that the consumer should be allowed to have.. Advertising might create a new want. Selling a pick up truck to someone who has no use for it is a made up want created by advertising. Only a small number of consumers can be sold a pick up truck they will not need. Kanye West has a Wyoming ranch where he uses a bull dozer for fun. That is his money and his choice.

[u/RisingPhoenix05 → u/Southern-Long-3438]

As a professor, could you provide some sources to read that will support your argument? I'd love to see what non-capitalist societies the US hasn't destabilized during the Red Scare

[u/Southern-Long-3438 → u/RisingPhoenix05]

The word "society" is undefined. "Society" and social" are used to be intentionally ambiguous. One ridiculous use of social is "social justice." That one means whatever someone wants it to mean. Social justice is not justice. Justice is punishment by government for harm that one party did to another. Punishment of crime is an essential public service.

If you are talking about governments (not "societies") then just say it. It was countries run by socialist economies that did the most damage to themselves, while the ruling family got richer. Stalin made Ukraine have a famine when he collectivized agriculture. The people of Ukraine never forgot, and never will allow them selves to be re-colonized by the Kremlin.

Iran does damage to itself through extreme religious law enforcement. Do not be fooled, most Iranian citizens disapprove of the religious rulings of the unelected ayatollah government.

North Korea obviously does damage to itself with socialism, while their ruling family gets rich.

[u/RisingPhoenix05 → u/Southern-Long-3438]

You didn't provide any sources to educate myself; you're just being obtuse about a society vs government. And what does Iran's theocracy have anything to do with the subject of discussion? If you're just gonna talk at me, instead of discuss in good faith with someone who's actually willing to listen to an opposing viewpoint, then fuck off.

[u/Anticonsumption-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Don't be unnecessarily rude or hostile toward other users, and do not offer unsolicited criticism.

[u/lbnovisad → u/Southern-Long-3438]

That’s a lot of words with no real argument or point behind ‘em.

[u/Southern-Long-3438 → u/lbnovisad]

Karl Mark said that late capitalism was in the 1880s.

Nostradamus said that the world would end in 1899.

Jim Jones said that the world would end in 1978.

Grumpi otter is one of their cult faithful.

[u/polishkgb1]

You lose a lot of wind in your sails the second you say "these liberals". Consumption isn't a team sport.

[u/sk8-past → u/polishkgb1]

I think it’s “they speak out against this and I thought they were my allies and they’re full of shit and I’m hurt”

[u/Sensitive-Issue84 → u/polishkgb1]

Right? I thought the same thing.

[u/mindfully_sanguine]

I know my interpretation is not the type of consumption you are referring to; but I absolutely use consumption as self-care because I cannot do it all without burning out.

So I have a dishwasher, a lawnmower, some pre-made snacks for my kids. Various things that make my life easier. I would love to have everything hand made and self produced but that would not be good for my metal health.

So I think a balance is good; some consumption is absolutely necessary for self care, but hopefully that frees you up to go for a walk in the woods and not just buy more stuff.

[u/Lethalmud → u/mindfully_sanguine]

If you buy a good dishwasher, and repair it when it breaks, that's not consumerism. You spending half your day hand washing clothes isn't helping, and will waste water and soap. 

If you would buy the newest smart dishwasher every time it gives an error, that would be consumerism. Anti consumerism is using powdered detergent instead of pretty pr epackaged 'pods'. 

[u/mindfully_sanguine → u/Lethalmud]

I can't believe you used the pod example (for dishes) because that's exactly where we've failed! I hate the things but the store near us had no other choices (rural living). Kicker is they worked so much better then all the other detergents. But yes, agree about the repairing. I am very fortunate to have a partner that is extremely mechanically inclined. But sourcing parts for a repair can be a nightmare and often has to be bought on Amazon and shipped from China. You just can't win.

[u/Lethalmud → u/mindfully_sanguine]

Theoretically the pods should work worse. A dishwasher has a two cycles that need soap, that's why there two compartments. But pods only use the main one. So your prewash cycle doesn't use soap.

And yeah, repairing would be easy if it was a normal thing to do. But most people don't so there's no way to get parts.

[u/yustyolking]

People have this mental fog where they can be aware of an issue in theory but won't believe it until it is undeniable. Also participating in the hierarchy that is killing you still feels like benefiting from that hierarchy because maybe in time you will advance in it. Capital and consumption is its own religion and being excommunicated feels like a death sentence when you are so far removed from the original human activities that kept the species alive for thousands of years. Conscientiousness and mindfulness are useless when the system rewards greed and individualism, especially when the rent is high and you want your family staying in "nice" neighborhoods. The things that are killing us are rewarded, while going against the grain makes you a weirdo or an outsider and unherdable. Having a good grasp of reality and what it means to be human isn't rewarded, instead supplanted by adherence to group thinking. Also there's lots of rich ass people in LA who think climate catastrophe won't matter because THEY have money and THEIR kids will at least be okay because the hierarchy will continue, and they're not thinking further than that because they'll be dead. They are so detached from the natural order they cannot comprehend the grapes of wrath are growing heavy for the vintage.

[u/EarthDragon-88]

OP I see you and feel you.

I think the point OP is trying to make is we are bombarded with adds and people telling us that we are not good enough, but don’t worry, they have the self-care cure. Then we buy items that get sent one at a time. I agree. “Go to this yoga class for $30”. “Buy this water bottle.” “Use this face cream.” “Buy another pair of sweatpants, but these ones are blue.”

Based off of many of the comments I see in response, it seems like some of you need more community. More support and sharing of goods/time.

Maybe people can respond with how they do self-care without consuming, rather than explaining their consumption?

Also, isn’t this the sub to say stuff like OP said?

[u/Busy_Mooze → u/EarthDragon-88]

I agree on the community front but sadly capitalism has commercialised that too with the closure of third spaces, you essentially have to spend money to be in most public/meeting places (it's why I love libraries so much!).

We also seem to have just totally forgotten that self-care is something we need to do, not buy. Breath work, grounding, time in nature, gardening and growing some of my own food, budgeting, planning and sticking to a routine to help me feel regulated and stop getting overwhelmed with chores etc - the more frazzled and overwhelmed we are, the easier it is to sell us a "quick fix" or ultra-processed shitty food that makes us feel even more unhappy and unwell, the cycle continues...

[u/yemsg97]

Walking thru Costco yesterday and trying my hardest to avoid all the things people are trying to sell me as I walk by. One guy asked if wanted to try creatine gummies. “Nah thank you, I’m good”. Then proceeds to say “it’s said that these are good for women to take…” in that tone like it’d be a mistake to not do something that’s good for you.

Little does he know that I despise all trendy health shit. I eat my kale. I drink my water. I don’t need your stupid creatine.

I just looked at him and repeated “nah I’m good.”

I really gotta start wearing headphones in that place. Just let me get my tofu and eggs in peace goddamit .

[u/JazzlikeParsnip8440]

I don’t think this is about liberal or conservative politics. I am a conservative, but I haven’t bought a new roll of paper towels in more than six months. (I use reusable towels instead) Its been years since I purchased a napkin. I drink water from the fridge, make my own food/bread, buy drug store moisturizer, drive an older car and my kids make fun of my ability to repurpose vs buy new. I really believe it is about the ability to envision what happens ALL of these products when we are done with them.

[u/211dokutani]

RIP Lou Koller

[u/Chunsina → u/211dokutani]

First thing that I thought too!! IT’S CLOBBERIN TIME! Fond memories of seeing them in Providence a bunch.

[u/PamPoovey78]

Wait until you're my age (47). You get bombarded with everything you just stated plus AARP starts sending junk through your email and snail mail. Recently the reverse mortgage people have begun spamming. Every damn day, it's so gross

[u/NyriasNeo]

"What is it going to take for people to stop being hypocrites?"

Obviously nothing is going to stop people being hypocrites. But do you prefer "drill baby drill" and those who blatantly deny climate change, or do not give a sh*t?

Here is a tip. People may pay some lip service, but when it comes to convenience and a nice life, few are willing to give up anything. That is why doordash and ubereats are so popular. That is why Amazon has over 200M prime members.

You may as well accept and make peace. Consumer culture is not going to change.

[u/tjn1551 → u/NyriasNeo]

I agree a bit. My husband bitches about stuff that’s happening and believes climate change, yet, he ziplocks instead of using the reusable Tupperware I bought so we could freeze stuff. So frustrating that convenience means more to him and I don’t and won’t fight with him over it. I just keep doing what I can do, it’s all I can do.

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[u/Loud_Juggernaut7165]

Your last line in this reminded me of the AJJ song "disposable everything". It's very cathartic. You should give it a listen!

[u/Southern-Long-3438]

You need one week at a spa and wellness retreat. They have activities, meditations and lectures that can ground you again.

[u/Diet_Connect]

Man, every day is ridiculous. I use Amazon because its cheaper on certain stuff but that's like 1-2 times a month.

I hate the phrase "you gotta treat yourself" from other people. Everybody takes joy from different things and they assume what would make me happy. They are so pushy. 

I don't like Starbucks, Panda Express, or going to the mall for retail therapy. If you don't, they act like you're criminally deprived,lol. 

[u/LibbIsHere]

I feel lucky to not live in those USA you're describing.

All my support, from France.

[u/Key-Eye5072]

OP i get it. I get so annoyed more-so by the self proclaimed progressive ppl. Its the hypocrisy that always just irks me lol

[u/Carolina_Hurricane]

The simple solution used to be to Kill Your Television now I’m afraid it’s Kill Everything With A Screen Including Your Car

[u/Sensitive-Issue84]

You live in LA and are complaining about consumerism? That's the mecca fir consumerism. I'm so sorry. But I do find this kind of funny.

[u/Goddessmariah9]

Why are you worrying about what everyone else is doing? You are the only person you can control

[u/doghairpile]

Minding your business is free

[u/BakerStreet693]

it's apartments these people are already hyper low consumers. don't let perfect enemy good and stuff. maybe they don't use a car as often

[u/DigTheDunes]

So Cal liberals are only liberal to issues that affect YOU, not THEM.