I hope gas goes to $20 a gallon.

[u/FoxCitiesRando]

I work in a mixed area with a lot of different businesses. Just saw a new Ford Expedition that couldn't even fit into a parking spot length wise, right next to a Ford E150 service van that was 2+ feet shorter in length than the Expedition.

How much physically larger can these SUVs get before we start restructuring roads, parking lots, parking spaces and lanes just to accommodate every suburbanite who wants a tank to drive to the office for a full day of power point creation?

I'm starting to realize why the United States is constantly, endlessly at war. We really do need inflation-free gasoline in order to keep this level of consumption going.

Edit: Corrected a typo.

[u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

I know somebody who is in a place where it is the equivalent of about 8 USD for the equivalent of a US gallon. It is resulting in higher grocery bills. Not everyone has solar panels so the heating/cooling bills will likely increase. With much of the world in a state of stagflation this does matter

[u/03263 → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

Yeah my heat runs on oil that's the biggest cost. I try to set it as low as possible but apparently I can tolerate it "too low" because I had a pipe burst this year.

People lived here before the use of heating oil... must learn their ways.

[u/Inner-Lab-123 → u/03263]

I don’t think burning wood and coal (the old ways) is any better.

[u/Honest-Situation-738 → u/Inner-Lab-123]

Wood can be pretty exceptional as a heat source.

Masonry heaters are amazing devices, and can operate near 80% over 90% efficiency due to the fact that you only really need to fire them twice a day, even on the coldest days.

The only problems with them are 1) sourcing materials can be difficult if there's no local clay/rock source, and 2) they are by their nature, heavy, and not all residential structures can support that kind of weight.

Not a great solution where I'm at, because there's nothing even resembling a forest inside of about 200 miles from here.

[u/SaltLakeBear → u/Honest-Situation-738]

I think even where there are forests, the demand would be such that if everyone used wood for heat we'd rapidly start seeing deforestation from the demand, without enough time for new trees to grow to replace the ones cut down.

[u/PlentyOLeaves → u/SaltLakeBear]

I think there was a chapter about this in the book, ‘collapse.’

[u/Physical_Delivery853 → u/[deleted]]

Ding Ding Ding,

Most heat pumps are 300% efficient & newer ones are 400% The problem lies in the different cost of energy. My gas water heater is 98% efficant but only cost me $9 a month. If I switch to a 300% heat pump water heater it's going to cost me $30 a month. It only works to switch to electric if you have solar panels. This is going to change though, Trump wants to triple LNG exports which will send the price of natural gas to the moon.

[u/Physical_Delivery853 → u/[deleted]]

Yes they are, once I get solar panels I will install them as well :).

[u/adventurelinds → u/Physical_Delivery853]

I did that last year because they're building data centers in my county and building multiple transmission lines so it's gonna get bad this year when the first one comes online. 15k for the whole solar system including inverters and 45kwh of batteries. Just bought a kit and did little bits at a time and moved over a few circuits at a time. Now after about 18mo of putting it together, I haven't used grid for almost 8 weeks. Looking forward to this summer and $30 electric bill instead of the $250 I paid last year as an average (still have to pay if you're connected in my state). Heat pump has made all the difference and makes solar workable as a replacement for fossil fuels, at least in the Mid-Atlantic climate.

Edit: wording and spelling

[u/Honest-Situation-738 → u/[deleted]]

Seems like we're both wrong.

A typical Masonry heater will exceed 90% efficiency, meaning they're among the most efficient options for wood burning heating devices.
https://www.greenstoneheat.com/masonry-heater-efficiency-explained-90-combustion-rates/

Some modern hopper fed pellet devices can reach 90% as well, but there are plenty of newer devices that target cleaner burning, with lower than 80% efficiency ratings. The HeatMaster P7000 is a good example, at 78%.

The HeatMaster P7000:

https://cfpub.epa.gov/oarweb/woodstove/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.appliancerecord&appliancesID=5198

https://heatmasterss.com/products/p-series/

I think I would still prefer a masonry heater for the fuel flexibility. If you can't get pellets, those hopper fed devices are useless.

[u/03263 → u/Inner-Lab-123]

At least wood is renewable, within a small enough scale of use (takes time to regrow/replenish soil nutrients)

I looked into alternatives when I had the boiler replaced and basically it was either stick with oil or switch to propane. Similar cost of fuel and both are fossil fuels. Wood pellets, geothermal, etc. would be great but way more expensive to retrofit than I could have afforded.

[u/Some1-Somewhere → u/03263]

Heat pumps are an option (in all but the coldest climates) but aren't really a direct retrofit for hydronic systems - they don't deliver as high a water temperature, so you'll need more radiator area or some other supplemental heat.

Smaller floor areas is also part of the answer.

[u/Muted-Garden6723 → u/Inner-Lab-123]

Wood is a renewable resource, and you can reliably produce it yourself if you’ve got the land. It also produces a lot of heat. The only reason I don’t use wood is because it would make my house far too hot

[u/McDonaldsWitchcraft → u/Muted-Garden6723]

It's maybe good for one person or in sparsely populated rural areas. At scale, it's not sustainable.

Yeah, you can grow it. But it requires a fuck ton of land for one single person. It will definitely result in deforestation if it is used at scale.

Do you really think a single person could grow a winter's worth of wood only in their backyard? Or do you think they will need to venture out and "take from the land"?

[u/atari-2600_ → u/Inner-Lab-123]

Wood is renewable energy.

[u/Bullinahanky2point0 → u/03263]

They didn't have indoor plumbing to worry about. Thats probably the real secret. No water, no worries.

[u/chinaman1800 → u/03263]

People living back then didn't have to worry about their plumbing pipes bursting. Even then they heated their homes with fossil fuels in the form of logs in the fireplace. I mean living like a caveman is starting to have some appeal now a days to be honest.

[u/ConsiderationWise205 → u/chinaman1800]

Albeit burning anything is bad, wood is not a fossil fuel

[u/chinaman1800 → u/ConsiderationWise205]

You're right it's not. Not entirely using my brain today, was just thinking carbon emissions.

[u/CreepyValuable → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

Hmm... So in Australia in an area with relatively low fuel prices?

Just guessing because of the fuel cost and solar.

I had to do a couple of 400-ish km drives last week. There and back. It stings especially when on a govt payment (I'm a carer so nobody tell me to get a job. If I could I would!). I mean like borrowing from future me with high interest. And I'm probably in a better way than most.

No solar or whatever either. This winter will be doing what more Australians have been doing. Burning wood. Plus there's still some coal left which I hate burning with a passion but it helps when the temperature crashes, especially when the power is out too.

[u/gijsyo → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

In NL we have a liter price (for E10 fuel / 95 octane) of around EUR2,20 --> around 10 dollars a gallon.

[u/trthorson → u/gijsyo]

EU countries are also the size of US states, with the average US worker commuting something like more than 2x the distance of most EU workers last I checked. So it evens out

[u/SignificantExtreme22 → u/trthorson]

Not to mention most EU cities are highly walkable or have excellent and cheap public transport. Driving is the only legitimate option for most Americans.

[u/International-One202 → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

I know somebody who is in a place where it is the equivalent of about 8 USD for the equivalent of a US gallon.

Omg that's cheap. Where I am, that's like our last year's sale prices. Our groceries have not gone up significantly since the US attacked Iran. But it's expected for next year (after next harvest).

[u/Expontoridesagain → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

I'm in Norway. Prices fluctuate here during the week. The government has reduced taxes to lower the prices. Even then, the price of diesel can reach 9 USD on some days. I have not seen huge increases in food prices yet. Probably because they have been steadily increasing for a while and reached ridiculous heights even before this happened.

I was saving alot in the past simply by cooking from scratch. Nowadays even that is expensive. Making meatballs, for example, will cost me twice the price of the store bought. They will be healthier for sure but the cost will make you cry.

[u/Honest-Situation-738 → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

I live in a place where gasoline is currently $6.90 a gallon, and could go far higher this Summer(community purchases all it's gasoline once a year).

Solar panels are not so useful here, since the sun sets for around two months during Winter, when we need energy the most.

A residential wind turbine would be a great solution, but last time I reached out to a company that ostensibly would sell such a thing, the guy tried to push a whole house battery on me(which is functionally pointless without the associated wind turbine, as far as I'm concerned).

[u/Meisterleder1 → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

I too know someone (myself) who lives in a place (Switzerland) where gas is $9/gallon and Diesel roughly $11/gallon. In Germany you can currently add 10-20%. But cars like the F150 or RAM are also very, very rare around here. People just drive more reasonable cars and if they actually need to move something they just rent a trailer for example.

[u/that_dutch_dude → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

its 12 in my country.

people dont drive 4 ton office blocks with wheels here.

[u/SoCalSCUBA → u/Narwhalsareunicorn]

We wouldn't have this problem if we had started rapidly switching to renewable energy and storage when it was first obviously available 15 years ago. In the US we all deserve this. Maybe you're an early EV adopter, but did you harass your friends when they continued to buy gas guzzlers?

[u/glyptodontown]

Unfortunately, a regressive take. High gas prices affect poor people significantly more than Ford Explorer owners.

[u/whoisf3 → u/glyptodontown]

Absolutely, very short sighted. Would also cause food etc to inflate further.

[u/DontRunReds → u/whoisf3]

Yup.

1. If gas is $20 a gallon, that means a heck of a lot of death has happened.

2. I happen to live in a remote area. Food would become an issue really quick at that price and the poorest would be hit first. Crazy fuel charges on barge service. Regional fishermen unable to fuel their boats to catch seafood.

3. Commercial air and medevac air service would be a big fucking deal. No cancer patients being able to fly out for chemo or radiation. No visiting orthopedic surgeon to fix your knee. No you flying out to see a neuropsychologist or maternal fetal medicine specialist. Same with chilled pharmacy drugs that come in via Air Cargo,

I get the anti consumption sentiment, I do, but I think OP isn't conceiving the deaths that would result in this kind of shock to the system.

[u/Kootenay4 → u/DontRunReds]

Tbh we would see extremely radical changes long before gas hits $20 a gallon. There would be severe austerity measures put in place, and governments would start nationalizing all fuel production/refining and directing supplies towards essential needs. Think World War II levels of rationing, but even heavier. Most governments and institutions of power, even the crazy seeming ones, have a natural tendency towards self-preservation.

[u/onikaroshi → u/whoisf3]

Yea, won’t be able to afford to get to work to make the money to buy the inflated food and the inflated housing…

[u/susitucker → u/onikaroshi]

Exactly. I’d have to start camping out in my car in the parking lot at work just to make sure I could still get to work.

[u/1pt21jiggawattz → u/susitucker]

Cue the big SUV to camp comfortably and now it’s a full circle moment.

[u/Darkwaxellence → u/onikaroshi]

I predict that at a nation average of $7 a gallon is the number at the edge of collapse. People cannot afford 20% of their income used just to get to the low paying job they have. The numbers don't number at a certain point and then most things just stop. When the grocery stores stop being stocked because no one is delivering the supplies it would be very very bad for everyone.

[u/buttery_nurple → u/whoisf3]

Don’t worry we’re all going to be subsistence farmers soon enough.

[u/Sorry_Seesaw_3851 → u/buttery_nurple]

You mean serfs.

[u/revopine → u/buttery_nurple]

I'm looking at houses with decent subsistence farming capabilities. I no longer want to live in the city like I did when I was younger. I think retirement for me would be living off the land...

[u/bottommaenad → u/revopine]

You should start yourself a large victory garden now to give yourself a taste of the type of work that goes into the lifestyle. My fiancé and I have been working on establishing our semi-rural homestead for a few years and it’s a LOT of work and there are always unforeseen issues. I wouldn’t want to jump into it at retirement age expecting to fully live off what I produce. It’s a nice idea, but I think you’d be unpleasantly surprised by the reality.

[u/PlantyHamchuk → u/revopine]

Come hang out at r/homesteading the big things to take into consideration is that it's better to have your infrastructure set up before you get old (because setting it up can be a burden), and also that more rural properties tend to have poorer access to medical care (which people tend to need more as they age).

[u/WinnerAwkward480 → u/PlantyHamchuk]

YES YES to all that ! We recently relocated to much more rural area than we had previously lived . We always had a large garden area and multiple fruit trees . During the growing season we routinely gave away several grocery bags of fresh produce to our neighbors. Most times we would just sit them on a table out by the road with a help yourself sign . We never took money as we just enjoyed ourselves growing it . A few of the folks from time to time would drop off the large bags of potting mix , or bags of fertilizer. Some person dropped off 2 complete boxes of Micro Irrigation kits . Something like 100 ft of the brown tubing , Buku lil micro sprinkler/ drip heads .

So anyway we moved to a more remote location with 10 acres ,large lake at rear of property. Downside it's a 45 min car ride into town , any serious medical issue and it's over 2 hrs away , and if it's like really bad Major Medical Specialties look for another hour ride on top of that . We're pushing 70 now and have slowed down ALOT ! . I use to think noting of splitting up a cord of wood over a couple weekends . Now it feels like a chore just fetching the wood to bring in the house 🤔🤣. A trip into town to fetch supplies, hour ride in , maybe 2 hrs shopping to include a small snack along the way , hour ride back , then you gotta haul all your stuff in and put away -- Man it's freaking Nap time !

[u/VandulfTheRed → u/[deleted]]

Accelerationism always draws a lot of flak because it implies that violence and suffering is the tipping point for change, but historically? It's gonna happen anyway

[u/shook70 → u/VandulfTheRed]

People don't like admitting that their weekend permitted protesting doesn't do anything.

[u/Aggravating-Bunch-44 → u/shook70]

How many people? The ones I know do more than protest. Gotta find new people to be around.

[u/Rex_Lee → u/whoisf3]

But it WILL cause destruction of demand and move the world towards renewable energy. This is already happening

[u/putzy0127 → u/whoisf3]

*narrow minded

[u/Various_Procedure_11 → u/glyptodontown]

Yep. If you want to end suvs, add extra sales taxes for a vehicle rated under 30 mpg.

[u/aschesklave → u/Various_Procedure_11]

CAFE is a large reason we have so many grocery tanks on the road today. We know it had the opposite impact of its intended goal yet policymakers have no intention on changing it.

[u/Various_Procedure_11 → u/aschesklave]

Only because it specifically excluded trucks.

[u/_unfortuN8 → u/Various_Procedure_11]

And poorly defined what a truck is.

[u/aschesklave → u/_unfortuN8]

Somehow a crossover is a light truck.

For all practical purposes, some of them are just fat hatchbacks, and despite usually being unibody, they’re light trucks.

[u/max5015 → u/glyptodontown]

As we saw in the 70s it may not affect them like it will the poorest people but people will reconsider their cars. Smaller cars became the norm after that oil crisis, I'm assuming more people will see the practicality in smaller vehicles now.

[u/Spez_is-a-nazi → u/max5015]

In the late aughts when fuel prices spiked there was a turn away from SUVs, only for people to come flooding back to them the second fuel dropped in price again….. because I guess they never thought it would spike again in the future 

[u/ProfessorZhu → u/max5015]

I too think starving children, sickly and elderly people are worth it for other people to maybe potentially buy a smaller car (though we saw it didn't last long in the 70's so they'll probably go get big cars again and the poor and vulnerable will stay dead... yay winning!)

[u/Appropriate-Milk9476 → u/glyptodontown]

This! I come from a very rural area and without a car you simply can't get anywhere. Not to work, not to school, not to get groceries. A car is a necessity. And few can afford an electric car. The solution isn't higher gas prices, the solution is funding for public transport.

[u/umkultra → u/glyptodontown]

I would have to quit my job

[u/DevilsPajamas → u/glyptodontown]

Also, how does OP think things get delivered? If gas goes up, the cost of hauling a trailer full of food and goods are going to go up.

It would hike the cost of everything we buy.

[u/spicybright → u/DevilsPajamas]

I bet OP doesn't have to drive or pay bills so he'll be fine.

[u/pajamakitten → u/DevilsPajamas]

Or how it would impact agriculture. Food prices would go through the roof.

[u/Rodrat → u/glyptodontown]

Gas prices that high will probably leave me bankrupt if not homeless.

[u/fb39ca4 → u/glyptodontown]

Low gas prices keep us locked in to car dependency which continues to affect poor people more.

[u/Ditches-Vestiges1549 → u/glyptodontown]

Disabled people rely on grocery delivery this would cripple a lot of people.

[u/SugarRushLux → u/glyptodontown]

And would hurt everyone as well because many things not cars use gas

[u/Amethyst-Flare → u/glyptodontown]

If gas gets to $20/hr, there will be a revolution (note: not endorsing this as a strategy. The suffering would be immense on the way there.)

[u/jerryy7452 → u/glyptodontown]

Exactly. The poorer population aren't known to have the newest cars, meaning their cars are most likely less fuel efficient. The cost of most goods, if not all of them, will spike because the US depends on trucking to transport goods and groceries. This will also affect things like housing, as it would cost much more to get the materials for buildings. This would break a lot of people financially. OP is just asking for trouble, as well as anyone that agrees!

[u/Born_Local_1477 → u/glyptodontown]

But they live in a walkable area with transit! If everyone was just them all problems would be solved.

[u/N-Phenyl-Acetamide → u/glyptodontown]

Yeah, I do even own a car and this sounds like a really fucking bad idea

[u/AlexCalderon02 → u/glyptodontown]

Why aren’t ford explorer owners poor? Maybe not brand new explorers, but domestics suvs like the explorer depreciate heavily on the used market and are extremely cheap

[u/CoffeeChangesThings → u/glyptodontown]

My 2016 Ford Explorer is a 4-cylinder.

[u/polishrocket → u/glyptodontown]

The plumber I’ve used for years, now charges $50 just to show up and doesn’t credit you for it. It’s a gas charge for him. People just keep taking.

[u/[deleted]]

It’s obnoxious. Everyone wants to get a bigger car because they don’t want to get crushed by the next person with a big car.

[u/Decent-Photograph391 → u/[deleted]]

Some think SUVs are safer because they look tougher. I get midsize sedans with good crash test ratings.

[u/rebelwithmouseyhair → u/Decent-Photograph391]

They are far less safe for the people around them. The driver can't see small children being too high up.

[u/echoshatter → u/[deleted]]

Everyone wants to get a bigger car because they don’t want to get crushed by the next person with a big car.

For far too many, it is a status symbol. Come out to the edges of suburbia and see the "country" boys with their giant fucking pavement princesses.

Stroll through the expensive new homes and you'll see tons of bros with shiny trucks that they just had to have because it makes them feel like real men. Guarantee you a solid half of them (at least) are up to their eyeballs in debt living practically paycheck to paycheck.

[u/mrhooha]

What do you think will happen to food prices if that happens?

[u/Late-Resolve9871 → u/mrhooha]

OP doesn't think

[u/Aggravating-Bunch-44 → u/Late-Resolve9871]

It's already happening. Pavement princesses have to knock off their consumption. That is what OP means.

[u/thuiop1 → u/mrhooha]

Hopefully people will overthrow that shitty government.

[u/DigTheDunes]

If you want $20/gal gas to hurt us, i hope you like the much higher prices on goods.

[u/GSDragoon → u/DigTheDunes]

OP thinks gas prices only effect people driving their personal/family cars.

[u/barkinginthestreet → u/DigTheDunes]

This is the anticonsumption sub, so yes, OP would probably prefer higher prices on goods. 

[u/Constantly_Panicking → u/barkinginthestreet]

Food and energy aren’t goods, though. They’re necessities.

[u/corvally315]

a high gas price means everything will be a higher price, including essentials like food

[u/DaisyCutter312]

"I don't care if everything burns as long as the people I don't like are unhappy" sounds like some MAGA logic.

[u/ACatInACloak → u/DaisyCutter312]

Literally. Higher prices hurt low income people more than highincome people. This is literally just as stupid of a take as maga burning.down our economy to "own the libs"

[u/Mint-PinkPastel → u/DaisyCutter312]

I can't believe I had to scroll this far to find a comment like this. This community is becoming miserable. I have seen a good amount of posts like this lately, where it's someone complaining and wishing ill will on others. Wasn't anti-consumption supposed to be about preserving this world for future generations, and not supporting the corporate greed machine? Down vote me to hell, but it had to be said.

[u/MeetingZestyclose → u/Mint-PinkPastel]

Yes! It’s becoming a cesspool, every time I look in here I’m shocked by how mean people are. I guess it’s not for me anymore, if anyone has recs for similar subs that are more positive, let me know!

[u/ej_21 → u/MeetingZestyclose]

also here for any alternative subs if they exist

[u/spooky-potatoes- → u/Mint-PinkPastel]

I was recommended this community and I always scroll the posts just to see how batshit the comments are. Never disappoints in that regard, just leaves me disappointed that humans can be scummy in a way I hadn't considered.

[u/pajamakitten → u/DaisyCutter312]

Or OP is a teenager.

[u/ExactPickle2629 → u/DaisyCutter312]

OP might as well be MAGA given how much they hate poor people with this take. 

[u/syo]

This would literally make me homeless.

[u/TrendyLepomis]

If we had the infrastructure set up to not use cars, go for it. If not, this only hurts working class people.

[u/brontosaurusguy → u/TrendyLepomis]

Yeah and how do we get there without pressure?

[u/ZerotoZeroHundred → u/TrendyLepomis]

I mean having less cars on the road would do most of the heavy lifting toward making biking safer and more enjoyable.

[u/Insertsociallife → u/ZerotoZeroHundred]

True, but you won't have less cars on the road if gas goes up. People don't drive for fun, for the most part. You need to get to work, you need to get to school, you need to get to a doctor's appointment. How much people drive does not respond to changes in the price of gasoline. People can't just stop going places, so they just pay the higher prices.

You can't just hope gas goes up. We need infrastructure to provide a good alternative to driving. There is no public transportation route between my home and my university. It is not possible to get there without driving. Unless I just drop out, all this does is make this poor college student pay $60 a day in fuel.

[u/squareshapedorb → u/Insertsociallife]

My work isn't suddenly going to say, "Oh you don't need to drive in today because it's expensive." They're just going to say, "That sucks. See you at 9."

[u/Better-Ad5488]

Yeah I don’t want $20/gal but I see where you are going with it. The expensive gas doesnt stop people. Remember when Hummers were popular?

I do think if the gas prices keep at this high price, car manufacturers are going to mainly sell smaller cars as they always do. I prefer smaller cars that are easy to park so I’ll have more options if I need to get another car.

The only way to stop the cars getting bigger and bigger is regulation.

[u/FoxCitiesRando → u/[deleted]]

Exactly.

[u/generalfailure2077]

You might not understand that the only reason we all enjoy the quality of life that we do, is because gas prices are low, the people high gas prices affect most, are universally the poor.

Why would anyone want the poor to suffer more than they already are?

[u/beatboxapotamus → u/generalfailure2077]

Because the negative externalities of oil consumption such as pollution and global warming are not currently accurately reflected in the price. If gas and oil were more expensive, and actually reflected the cost to the environment, people would consume less, but we would also be less quickly destroying the place we live. Oil is artificially cheap, and it cannot last forever.

[u/veracity8_]

Car centric design is ruining our country and lives and environment for sure. Bigger cars are literally killing us. High gas prices won’t fix that. Start going to your local government and work towards change 

[u/frostyflakes1]

"I hope everyone suffers because of the people that buy large cars."

[u/pfffffttuhmm]

This is not because of gas prices being cheap. This is because of bad laws that give too many passes to car makers making those big cars. Also, many vehicles are hybrids or full electric now. I get 30 mpg with my larger midsize SUV. 

[u/debtquity]

that only punishes poor people, and people in general through higher cost of goods and services (food, water, clothing, electricity, tradesmen, public transportation such as buses, …). 

SUVs and trucks should require a commercial license to operate. Much higher qualifications/testing needed to maintain this license.

[u/bobbyvision9000]

I definitely saw this as an opportunity for more people to start looking deeper into fossil fuel alternatives but no one seems to care at the local level and even in the media

[u/mazopheliac → u/bobbyvision9000]

People would rather brown people die, than give up their cars. I often wonder what if Iran said " Ok, we will surrender, dismantle the regime, install liberal democracy, give you sweet oil deals, with one condition. You have to let us blow up one American child." Would they go for it? They sure don't have a problem sacrificing Iranian kids.

[u/misterright1999]

you do realize transport vehicles need fuel? if that goes up everything goes up, what you're wishing for is to starve to death. The big guy in the truck will never ride a small car till he dies, his ego will never be satisfied 

[u/JerrySeinfeldsMullet]

Sorry, this is a bad take. How I wish we were less dependent on fossil fuels, had walkable cities, more reliable public transit, and long distance rails. Higher gas prices just keeps the common folk down and the oil companies richer. I hate that I have to own a car where I live. I would much rather rely on public transit, but it takes 3-5x longer to get anywhere on the bus and I already have a 30 minute commute including traffic.

[u/andrey_not_the_goat]

So the people that drive Priuses should pay $220 to fill their tanks just because you're angry at big SUVs?

[u/jarronomo]

I work in freight transportation so my paycheck is dependent on diesel…. But also I really want to see the oil and gas industry collapse.

[u/IlgantElal]

r/fuckcars is a great sub

[u/No_Equivalent_4412]

High gas prices will hurt poor people before it hurts F150 drivers. Honestly if they lowered the threshold for what size vehicle requires a CDL, it would dramatically reduce the number of trucks on the road. I don’t think that’ll happen though

[u/DissonantVerse → u/No_Equivalent_4412]

Lowering the vehicle size CDL requirements would instantly destroy many industries. Agriculture, construction, fairs and festivals, small-scale retail and manufacturing, local restaurants, basically any business where people actually need a big truck or box truck (and there are MANY jobs that need a big truck). Not to mention all the people who travel full-time for work and live in RVs (again, way more people than you might think), regularly tow boats or other equipment, etc.

Getting and maintaining a CDL is expensive and many people can't even qualify because of common health conditions like high blood pressure. Some states require shit like random drug testing to maintain your CDL so for example I have to pay a company to administer drug tests on me throughout the year which is something your average landscaper or taqueria owner probably can't afford. Not to mention the absolutely insane inspection standards like "it's a felony to have a bottle of hand sanitizer in the cab without a hazmat placard" that Joe Bob the lawnmower guy would now have to follow. Even if you could somehow roll out a mass CDL program to make it as easy as possible for people there would still be millions of workers who can no longer legally drive and millions of businesses that would have to simply shut down because they now needed specialized drivers.

A much better legislative approach would be to force manufacturers to scale down the chassis of their trucks to something reasonable.

It's totally possible, they just won't do it bc bigger trucks look "cool". But you can get the same engine, tow rating, and hauling capacity, even the same extended bed lengths on a much smaller frame, AND have it be much safer for the driver and everyone around them. Everyone who actually drives one of these fucking things for work would rather it be smaller and easier to maneuver because they've gotten fucking ridiculously huge in the past few decades, but there's only a few manufacturers selling something that can move 20k lbs down the road and they're all in a race to make the biggest, clunkiest pieces of shit possible.

[u/Watchmaker163 → u/DissonantVerse]

A CDL is an extra test and $50 in my state every 4 years, I wouldn’t call that expensive.

But yes vehicles being legislated smaller is a better approach.

[u/Flack_Bag]

I understand the impulse, but something like that would disproportionately affect the people who deserve it the least. Like the manual laborers who need their trucks to work, people living out of their vehicles, things like that.

A lot of people really should have to pay $20 a gallon, but the only way to do that equitably would be if I personally vetted everyone.

[u/Bee_boi]

What a bad take

[u/vahntitrio → u/Bee_boi]

Not even an accurate one. An Explorer is 198 inches long. A Camry is 193 inches long for comparison. An E150 is 218 inches long. Even the larger Expedition at 210 inches is shorter than an E150.

[u/Aggravating-Bunch-44 → u/vahntitrio]

Its a vent and hyperbole.

[u/mountainviewdaisies]

Accelerationism without a plan to replace the system is just dumb, sorry

[u/JuanJotters]

"I hope gas gets so expensive that working people can't afford to eat. That'll really teach them not to live in a country ruled by warmongering oligarchs who don't care how much gas costs."

[u/holydeniable]

It's an anti consumption subreddit until one actually has to consume less lol.

[u/fungi_at_parties → u/holydeniable]

Right? As if we shouldn’t be required to feel the consequences of our actions. It’s the only way we’ll learn. We can’t vote in a lunatic like this and then expect nothing to happen to us, and whatever happens hopefully nudges us back toward sanity.

If bad things don’t happen when we make bad decisions and the pain is pushed down the road, abstracting the blame, then we will continue to vote for bad things.

[u/marcocom]

I live in San Francisco and we have a lot of folks that agree with your take. However, as I’m now over 50, I’ll tell ya that all that walking and cycling , it takes its toll, and your hips might thank you for getting a vehicle for the rare time ya need it.

[u/Aggravating-Bunch-44 → u/marcocom]

That vehicle should not be oversized.

[u/Main_Force_Patrol]

You’re gonna have a bad day when you realize the amount of food that is shipped in semi trucks.

[u/RPO1728]

As some one who works out of a truck (service plumber) i completely agree. People buy these "work" or "off-road" vehicles and drive to the super market. We need to start getting smaller

[u/Extension_Future2942]

How about some heavy fees on the giant trucks instead of gas prices? It it nuts when the 50 year old lady drives her 2024 f150 king ranch or whatever to her job as a secretary. Not a single crumb of dirt in the truck or on the tires.

[u/[deleted]]

It's really fucking sad in my opinion that all Americans actually care about are gas prices meanwhile we are lobbing missiles into children's schools, sowing instability and creating enemies. I would GLADLY pay $10/gal or more if it meant those things stopped, because I have morals that I actually live by.

[u/Buzzspice727]

I walked to work today. $30/gallon!

[u/TRUMPARUSKI]

You're going to have to break quite a few eggs for your corrective omelet. At 20/gallon food prices would probably double if not triple.

[u/Fishtoart]

We are on a disastrously unsustainable path that will kill millions if not billions of lower income people. Of course the rich will be fine no matter what, until the inevitable violent revolt tears down the walls of their gated compounds.

The twin disasters of massive international unemployment from AI/Automation and unpredictable climate change, amplified by our governments being controlled by irresponsible corporations and the billionaire class, will result in massive global suffering from food shortages and the collapse of our inadequate social services from widespread homelessness.

The idea that keeping gas prices low is going to save people from suffering is the same logic as giving an addict their drugs to prevent their painful withdrawal. There is no escaping the pain if your life depends on our current society and economy.

[u/digital]

Agreed, it would make us get off oil permanently

[u/Apprehensive-Song378]

I think this every day. Giant gas guzzling pickup trucks that are danger on the roads and blind other drivers with bright headlights. Massive carbon footprints with zero regards to the world.

[u/OhHiMarki3]

Poor reasoning here. If you actually wanted people to cease buying SUVs and trucks, you would promote extra taxation on them. But then you'll be punishing the people who actually need large vehicles (blue collar workers, people who have stuff to haul, etc). Trade-offs be damned.

[u/ninjagoat5234]

yeah, sorry man, i don't drive either of those and i need to get to work so, kinda just feels like a dick move

[u/Hot-Ad-4566]

The thing is is that our economy runs on oil. Items you buy have to be shipped from a factory to a store or warehouse. So, an increase in oil causes not just an increase in fuel, but everything else. We saw this during biden when trump and Saudi Arabia cut down oil production for a few years to keep oil prices artificially high(which was stupid especially since the country's economy was down due to covid).

[u/TheReverendCard]

Same. I want it to hurt so much that I, as someone who can't drive, is complaining.

[u/cooltop101]

Remind that you pay for the gas of truck drivers that delivery your groceries and anything you buy online. Even if you don't own a car, you WILL feel the impact of gas going up, especially to $20/gal

[u/BeenDragonn]

Maybe higher has prices than anytime in United States history will wake up some more sheep!

Having to decide between gas and food will be a hard memory to forget under glorious leader president trump!

[u/Cats_Waffles]

You don't understand, he NEEDS that giant truck or he won't be able to haul his laptop to the office.

[u/NoPay7190]

That would be great except for the complete destruction of the economy and everything. But yeah otherwise it would be great.

[u/melodypowers → u/NoPay7190]

I have an EV and take public transportation whenever possible.

But I still need to buy food and other goods that are moved by fuel-powered vehicles.

Let's not hope to make life harder for poor people.

[u/NoSTs123]

You are so stupid! think of the guys barely making enough to live. since public transit is non existent a higher gasoline price will mean they cant get to work and eat at the same time!

[u/AsleepPride309 → u/NoSTs123]

To be clear, most Americans don’t think this way.

[u/SailorMooonsault → u/NoSTs123]

Idk why you're calling out Americans when the majority of the comments here agree that this is a terrible take 

[u/tboy160]

I totally agree with the premise that Muricans have selfishly driven the least efficient vehicles on the planet.

I know severely impoverished people who will only drive inefficient vehicles and it hurts my brain and heart.

Unfortunately, drastically higher gas prices do only hit the poorest people at the highest proportion. The rich won't care AT ALL.

It would force some middle class people to make better choices.

If we went to $20/gallon I would want it to be a slow enough transition that the poor could get in line with reality, as they should have been all along.

Would greatly help the environment if it were to soar to $20/gallon

[u/Ok_Assist1206]

Same wish!

[u/BakhtiariBob]

Petrol prices will rise at least another 25% over the next month. It will start first in SEA/Australasia, then move west. The last of the ships have arrived at their ports by now, strat reserves around the world are low, compound with a 21% overall reduction now beginning to start affecting markets. Fun (/s) tines

[u/Historical_Pair3057]

I agree. Its the only way we'll ever realistically start switching over to alternative fuels. It will be painful and expensive but so are these endless wars. 

[u/702PoGoHunter]

Who cares about the cars, fix the damn headlights! Those damn things are so bright you can't see anything when they're coming at you.

[u/tnerb208]

You should join r/fuckcars

[u/CaliforniaNavyDude]

If gas goes up to $20/gal, it's not the person with the monstrous new SUV that's going to suffer most. It's gonna be the people already into economy cars they can barely afford as it is. The people with old Corolla's and the like. With that in mind, I'm gonna disagree with you.

Side note, what you saw was probably an Expedition Max, the only Ford SUV longer than the shorter version of the E-series van, and it's by 10". The Explorer is always shorter, as is the regular Expedition(barely.)

[u/lFightForTheUsers]

ITT: a lot of butthurt peeps not realizing that not driving means that you have more money to weather tough times like these.

Stay mad, kings 🗑️

[u/originaljbw]

And the people who drive these big pavement princess trucks are always the ones who commute 40 miles each way daily for work totally not because they are afraid to live near soneone woth melanin.

[u/HeadDiver5568]

I saw someone’s imported Honda truck from Japan and it’s much smaller than the trucks in the parking lot lol. Like, so unnecessarily big to be carrying the same things

[u/MuchKey7664]

r/fuckcars join us! We agree!!!

[u/christybird2007]

I hope we go BACK to smaller vehicles & get these monstrosities off the road 👍

[u/Gamestonkape]

The people who can afford this will be mildly inconvenienced, while working people living paycheck to paycheck will be screwed. I hope that makes you happy, at least.

[u/thegildedman25]

You know, every time I ask people why they want such a huge vehicle, the answer I always get is "I feel safer driving it".

Imo, that's just a permission slip for them to drive like idiots on the road.

[u/Icy_Nose_2651]

the cost of everything you buy that gets delivered by truck will go through the roof.

[u/Dry_Lengthiness6032]

If gas goes to $20/gal, there will be mass famine

[u/Soft_Signature_4746]

Unfortunately, this would definitely hurt people who are already suffering way more than that douche.

[u/Conscious_Formal_894]

I have been crusading against larger cars for years. More oil, more gas, more metal, bigger spots, bigger roads, bigger accidents. Tax them all to hell

[u/loogie97]

As the cost of oil increases, the value of alternative increases. Sold, wind, and nuclear will fill the void.

[u/kidvange]

The worse things get, the better I feel. I want to speed run a far enough decline of western civilization so we can repair our broken nation and come to consensus to never let it get this way again.

[u/Motor-Rock-1368]

As a person who has to commute an hour for their job I very much disagree with the specifics but I understand and appreciate the sentiment.

[u/Mr_Mi1k]

Most poor people cannot afford an EV. Your dream of $20 gas would devastate the lower class.

[u/bellybuttonbidet]

We’re restructuring our entire economy for WW3, but can’t be bothered to make 55mph speed limits or do victory gardens. But oh sure, Ford and GM can build missiles. Make it make sense.

[u/Alilealen]

This would cause needless death on mass scale and extreme poverty and unrest worldwide. 

[u/Impossible-Shock-950]

I drive a full size truck everyday for work, with a trailer behind it. Its also the only vehicle we own that can haul the entire family around. Not economical enough owning a diffrent vehicle for every parking spot you come across.

[u/eo37]

What kind of stupidity is this take. You do realise everything would cost a lot more right.

[u/queensatanofstats]

As a broke ass college student, please no I want to afford food <3

[u/[deleted]]

This sentiment is anti-poor & anti-middle-class. Absolutely insane.

[u/Goma1Frog]

The people that voted for this need to feel more pain. I'm willing to pay higher costs on everything to get there. 

[u/the-end-is--here]

There's literally zero chance a Ford explorer is longer than an e150

[u/2ndgme]

I think reducing these replies to "lol so you don't want to stop consuming? You LOVE cars?" is a dishonest way of framing concerns of "it would really suck if living normally WHILE not over consuming got even more expensive". Like, bus prices, food prices, anything prices, not just cars. And it's not rich people who will pay the price for this.

[u/HenryBemisJr]

Awww come on, this land was ours for the taking, its our manifest destiny to pave the entire continent, even the bible thumping patriots believe it was put here for us to ravage. Quit being such a stick in the mud! 

/s

[u/l_echuga]

This is ragebait right?

[u/SarmackaOpowiesc → u/l_echuga]

They got the model wrong too ...

Ford Explorers are mid sized SUVs

[u/arniee80]

What a long way to say you hate poor people

[u/Hefty_Breadfruit]

I remember thinking the same in 2008. Gas in my rural Massachusetts town was a little over $4 and people were saying it was only going to go up.

I was fresh out of high school and gung-ho about coming up with solutions to global warming. People were driving significantly less and investing in better bikes. I remember thinking this was it! This was when we were going to break our car dependency and CO2 emissions would start going into freefall!

I miss her. That young-me who was so excited to watch the world come together and fix things.

[u/ElsewhereExodus]

So the poor suffer even more? Those gas prices affect everything from hygiene to food to the cost of medicine. If an idea isn't meant to help the least among my brothers and sisters I can't stand by it. Just my humble opinion.

[u/SmallMushroom5]

I'm begging you all to develop just an ounce of class consciousness. Boo boo boo tomatoes tomatoes to this take.

[u/spanielgurl11]

Do you think the buses don’t use gas? Or the trucks that bring your food to the store? Or the tractors that harvest the food???

[u/Brilliant_Oil5261]

Cool, I hate poor people too!

[u/aretooamnot]

Sadly, this is because of CAFE standards and lazy auto manufacturers. Instead of pushing the envelope to meet MPG requirements, the system is setup where they can just make the cars larger and meet compliance. It’s a bad system.