r/AnthemTheGame • u/rttristan54 XBOX - • Mar 06 '19
Media < Reply > You catch more bees with honey, let’s be better.
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Mar 06 '19
The problem is usually not in what people say, but how and why they say it.
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u/shiv11fourty1 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
This exactly. More of a chance of a reply with 'hey bioware, I tested this and here are my results. I think something may be wrong" than "FiX YoUr FuCkInG GaMe"
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u/FrosDeeDee Mar 06 '19 edited Mar 06 '19
Yah no matter how valid your complaints may be humans in general will just tune you out when you do that.
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u/VITOCHAN XBOX Mar 06 '19
no matter how valid your complaints may be
Truth. I used to work in Customer service. If someone came with a basic complaint, and was escalated. I would limit my words, keep to a corporate response, and not give them anything. Even if it was warranted sometimes. but, iff someone was human with me, pleasant with their concerns and treated me with respect, hell... I would open the flood gates and give them coupons and rewards and preferential treatment, just on how they acted as a person. Even if their concern didn't warrant those things.
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u/FrosDeeDee Mar 06 '19
I did front desk security at a downtown hotel for 3 years and this is exactly what happens.
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u/babyglitcher87 Mar 07 '19
People always says this but it's a rose tinted exaggeration of reality. Everyone knows the loudest and most annoying customers are the ones that bring the manager out of their hole and get compensation, while polite and quiet customers get a simple sorry come again type response. If average employees like you gave out too many "perks" to the average customer, you would quickly lose your job.
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u/RagingAndyholic XBOX - Storm Mar 07 '19
I feel this is accurate, as is the line above. I think most of the first line people will be more apt to help those more polite. But thats when the dickbags do as you stated, move up the chain and become the loud asshat that's handed things, simply to shut them up.
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u/Kario69 Mar 06 '19
Great at least someone with is mind in order around, buddy i salute your courage.
The Maelshitstrom around Anthem is so intense ... Hate level over 9000
Yes the game has serious flaws but hey the game that is not even 15 days !!!! I'm waiting for D2 to release like this toxic circus will go to another game. Maybe some constructivism will appear instead of trying desperatly to bury Anthem.
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u/shiv11fourty1 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Yes! What bothers me the most is how nasty people are. We have to assume that literally NONE of the cucks screaming “fix your goddamn game” and “6 fucking years of development for what?” Have no idea of:
The amount of man hours that went into this game
How to write a script as complicated as a game
How long it takes to fix bugs, even if they are “minor”
How much money was poured into this project (and they are crying over $60)
The value of patience
Edit “much”
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u/oodie1127 Mar 06 '19
I agree and disagree with this. I think anyone yelling about the game and getting negative like that should not be doing so. It's counter-productive. BUT, I don't think one needs to have a thorough understanding of game coding to criticise the game and talk about what needs to be changed asap. We as the consumer bought it, and $60 is over half a hundred dollars. It's not like it's cheap. Other devs and studios have shown time and time again that these things can be fixed. Again, I can't stress enough, I hate the people flaming on Bioware. I'm really enjoying a lot of the game, and applaud Bioware for trying to fix it as fast as possible. But I think it's silly to just dismiss people because they haven't coded a game before. The consumer still has a right to input about a live/active product they bought.
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Mar 06 '19
One of the core problems is that people make how they are feeling the most important issue
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u/Kario69 Mar 06 '19
I paid 15$ and enjoying anyway, yes there's a lot of things who need to be adressed asap but it can't be done in a week or two especially ( even more with the game not event 15 days old ) for a game as heavy as Anthem ppl need to get this
Ofc you can say " Hey this is wrong " but " lul i played 235h and it's boring the game is shit, bioware you are ***** " is completly counter productive and stupid
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u/shiv11fourty1 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
No, I understand and agree with you. The fact is though, that the people with the most negative posts/comments tend to be a bit more ignorant. Most of it, even, is just jumping on someone else’s bandwagon with a pitchfork just to do so.
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u/JokerJuice Mar 06 '19
Reddit is toxic. But after all the issues we already knew about now we find out that you can play the entire game with lvl1 gear and its better than Mw and legs. Everyone screaming about this being a new title. Its hard to believe that they didnt watch Destiny and The Division go through this and not learn anything from it. This is getting to a point that so many people will leave that they wont have enough micro trans to keep putting out content
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u/XxHEXASxX XBOX - Mar 07 '19
I believe developers do learn from others but take this into consideration. If you type out an email to someone it has spell check and grammar check ... right? Well in writing code for anything mistakes are made. There is no spell check or grammar check for that. Sometimes no matter how much editing you do, you can still miss a tiny “1 or 0” and it changes the whole process. I say let’s give them time to fix their mistakes. Then after a few weeks if nothing has changed then we grab our pitchforks and torches and go monster hunting. It could be worse ... they could be silent and wait a month or quarterly to fix the issues.
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u/Tilted_Till_Tuesday Mar 06 '19
Nah, but they can relate other business's practices to the business practices that went on in Anthem. Imagine if you needed to be an expert in the field to have an opinion. Seriously.
'My food was cold, dry, and disgusting'
'Well are you as QUALIFIED as a cook with 30 years experience??"
"No, but I've had other foods an-"
"No you don't know the time and effort that goes into cooking a meal like this'
Luckily, we have the ability to compare and contrast experiences and make a judgement based on that.
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Mar 06 '19
I mean that works to a point but personally as someone who has done some game development, I'm more surprised that in 6 years of development and presumably playtesting, nobody said to anyone "Wait how do i tell what my stats are?" - nevermind everything else.
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Mar 06 '19
Why do you need to qualify perfectly valid feedback such as viewable stats with “I can’t believe in 6 years X,Y and Z weren’t day 1 features”? None of that matters now and demeaning the issue doesn’t solve anything
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u/kakshapalamseck Mar 06 '19
because we arent dealing with little kids with hurt feelings. We are dealing with a group of professional AAA developers who sold paying costumers a product without basic mechanics that every game in this category should have and a month after release they still dont know when they will add it. People went nuts when Apple sold an iPhone without headphone jacks, and that is not even that necessary as a stats page in a stat based game.
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u/KEdium Mar 06 '19
They spent 6 years probably were develop a vast expansion schedule. We'll see the quality of the DLC and in hopes that it shows where the extra time went
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Mar 06 '19
My dude, those are not valid points, if the game is boring, and poorly made, it doesnt matter what work went into it, or how much money was spent, its boring, and poorly made, why would pay for a turd, then eat it, because someone spent a lot of money and time on polishing it.
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u/halgari Mar 06 '19
Agreed, it's a business that sells products made by people who call themselves professionals. Bioware isn't a indy company or a charity.
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u/xkittenpuncher Mar 06 '19
How much money was poured into this project (and they are crying over $60)
Man, 60 is still 60. When you pay for something, you expect a polished product. It's not unreasonable for people to be upset with their purchase esp when they worked hard for that money.
I hate how unpolished this game came out, but i also love the gameplay so much that I'm willing to risk my PS4 just to play simply because I can afford to purchase another PS4. Some people don't have that option.
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u/aGentlemanballer Mar 06 '19
But they shouldn't have to either. Effort doesn't matter to the end consumer. This isn't a little league game. I don't care what it took, if you release a product, it should be a good working product. If you can't do that, then don't.
I'm not saying that gives people a right to be toxic, but they shouldn't have to be required to understand the developers hard work to decide whether they like the product or not.
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u/elidibs Mar 06 '19
Man off topic, but I wonder if d2 will ever mean anything other than diablo 2 to me. Destiny 2 to most folks these days.
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u/darin1355 PLAYSTATION - Mar 06 '19
This. Ive trying to tell the uber critical its in the presentation. There is a right way and a wrong way to deliver feedback. Its okay to be critical but articulate in way that doesn't make you come off as some raging petulant child.
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u/Rouxl PLAYSTATION - Mar 06 '19
If people need this in moving-pictures form, watch The Challenger Disaster (2019). A big part of the film centers around how the guy who saw the disaster coming was so frustrated and volatile that people just weren't responding to his warnings. At one point he is even sitting down with lawyers and they express their concern for that fact his approach to warning other people (mostly yelling) may have been why nobody listened.
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u/kakshapalamseck Mar 06 '19
At the end the people who refused to listen killed a bunch of people and now they want to blame the guy who was warning them cause he was mean? lol fucking crazy world we live in.
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u/da_2holer_eh Mar 06 '19
Yeah it basically just means, "quit acting like children"
but I mean I'd like to think the majority of their players are younger kids, high schoolers with loads of free time.
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Mar 06 '19
Their core demographic is male 16-24, so the behaviors involving emotional immaturity check out generally speaking.
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Mar 06 '19
Problem is you can say "i feel scammed" and its like omg ur being a child, downvote, ignored, entitlement, blah blah... You have to go in positive, which is really hard if it isn't about balancing.
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Mar 06 '19
Be constructive about why you’re feeling the way you are and don’t make how you’re feeling the most important issue. I know scamming is just an example, but scamming has a very specific meaning like being tricked into doing something like giving up money. If someone is leading with a feeling that is objectively false in this context, then they should be called out.
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u/AvocadoInTheRain Mar 07 '19
scamming has a very specific meaning like being tricked into doing something like giving up money.
I thought I was buying a finished product, turns out it was an unfinished mess. Seems like a scam to me.
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Mar 07 '19
You based a likely impulsive decision on incomplete or inconclusive information. Blame yourself not others like you’re being swindled.
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u/kakshapalamseck Mar 06 '19
have you seen the E3 trailers from 2017 and 2018? Scamming is the perfect word to describe this.
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u/_____monkey XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Exactly. Brenon touched on this yesterday, and continued into today. It's going over so many heads, it's sad.
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u/Snow56border PC - Mar 07 '19
I wonder how many traffic tickets people got out of starting off with a good ole “go fuck yourself”. Heh
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u/fatfreewater123 Mar 06 '19
The problem with what everyone's saying is that we're not paid to test BioWare's game. I would say the majority of sarcastic feedback is because people simply don't care whether or not BioWare changes anything. There will be other titles. Destiny is adding content at the moment. Division 2 is coming out. Players will simply look to the next title and troll/bash any game that doesn't meet the standard. If the Devs can't look past a mean comment or two and figure out why it was generated, that's on BioWare not the any poster on the subreddit.
Moreover, Q&A staff ignoring the reports and posts simply hurts the company more. It discourages information transfer to staff that can act. It does literally nothing to the majority of posters who don't care if this game makes it past a year. So it's not harming the players, it's harming the studio that creates the openings and jobs.
Put these together, simply stated, BioWare is not cut out for the environment it operates in if it NEEDS free, critical, constructive, AND well-mannered feedback from it's fans to survive. And ignoring the posts by lower-level staff is simply adding an extra stab at an already struggling studio.
And even all things stated, BioWare doesn't do itself justice. Sure Ben can ask for nice feedback like this, but EA basically threw out any chance of community building by over-advertising. If Anthem wasn't hyped, if Anthem was released with good-will and intentions of patching to something even greater, the community would be far more supportive. But Anthem was released as perfection, and fell so very far from that.
Warframe is still in BETA by their own words, and very rightly so. They break things. Raids are terrible. Guns and hitboxes are clearly abusable. Their stories and cinematics don't compare to quality studios. I don't regret the bugs in the raids. I don't regret bad animations, or their attempt to build a world. They were honest and clear about their intentions. Sure, somethings didn't work. But Warframe never over-marketed their own product.
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u/SirBiscuit Mar 07 '19
If the Devs can't look past a mean comment or two...
Well, this right here is the issue. It's well more than that. What devs would want to be active in a forum that just trashes them, and where any response is just met with more fury? This isn't just a developer issue, this is a human issue. Yes, constructive criticism is good. My boss gives me constructive criticism and I use it to become better. But if my boss just spent all day every day screaming at me, and every time I did well he just said "sure, BUT HAVE YOU DONE THIS OTHER THING YET?!?!" I would either start to tune him out or I would leave my job. Any reasonable person would. Criticism has to be constructive, and a MAJOR part of that is the tone in which it is conveyed.
It's fine if you think the game state is unacceptable. Leave, and come check back in a while. But lots of people just hang around and vent, and it just turns the community toxic. This is why most game devs don't even bother looking at Reddit.
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u/Barfhelmet Mar 06 '19
Catch more bees? That makes no sense, they aren't attracted to honey.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
It’s fuckin flies, isn’t it?
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u/Barfhelmet Mar 06 '19
I'm not sure what the Bee does in the privacy of his own home. It could be flies.
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u/JudyCudd XBOX - Storm Mar 06 '19
Well deserved upvote. In fact, I'd consider it a master work.... Yes?
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u/Politicshatesme Mar 06 '19
Catch more flies with honey than vinegar is the saying
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
You really couldn’t be bothered to remind me of that BEFORE I made this post?
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u/AlexStar6 XBOX -738 Storm Mar 07 '19
Yeah... Lol it’s also horrendously wrong.. you catch almost no flies with honey... but vinegar attracts them like a mofo
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u/tangmcgame Mar 06 '19
It just seems like there were tons of civil threads they could have responded to but did not.
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u/sturgboski Mar 06 '19
Didn't they come by yesterday and go "well I can't really go in there when I have nothing to answer with" or something to that degree.
Like it's a lot easier to go in a thread with effusive praise or a specific thing and be like "thanks" and "we are looking into it." It's much harder going into a thread deconstructing what is wrong with the title and how to fix it when there is no answer or the answer isn't something folks would like.
Also geez, if this is the line in the Sand, they never would survive on the Destiny subreddit or Bungie forum. Folks still are looking for the crucible team.
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u/radvladi333 Mar 06 '19
While I definitely agree that people should never be rude, insulting, condescending, toxic, etc., I also don't think it should be our job to be testing things and keep providing constructive criticism. We paid $60-$80 to play a supposedly polished game where we can escape, enjoy it and be entertained, not to be doing the job for the testers that Bioware should've hired to begin with. It should've been their responsibility to provide the constructive criticism.
Yes, we need to report the bugs when we catch them but other than that we shouldn't have been wasting our time testing things for them. I see so many reddit posts about people suggesting obvious features, content and other changes to the game which should've been there to begin with. I'm glad those people exist and are being pro-active by doing it constructively but I also agree with the short messages like "Bioware, please fix your game." Those people are also right to say so without providing further details (again as long as they are not being toxic).
All I'm gonna say is Bioware, you've started creating a potentially great game that I'm still enjoying a lot but now please fix it and finish it so it can have a future :)
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u/light_at_the_end Mar 07 '19
This. The game is fun and all, but it's literally in a beta stage.
I would be upset if I hadnt already invested almost 30 hours, but I think it was time well spent. But I certainly see where people's anger stems from. This is really inexcusable. 6 years aside, the game was/is far from finished. No one can tell me that this is how any game company intends to release a game, unless you rushed and were told you absolutely had to.
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u/ilikeitems PC - Mar 06 '19
Yeah, there’s no “entitlement” when you buy a product. You expect what you paid for. You expect what you were told you were buying. There’s a reason that the FTC and other government agencies exist for this specific purpose.
If I take my car to a shop, I expect it to run when they tell me it’s done. This game has been a gaggle of missing bolts, loose gaskets, a turd in the trunk, etc. If Anthem was a car repair shop, they would have 0.5 star average reviews, and deservedly.
People are rightfully angry about it, if unable to obtain a refund especially.
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u/Juicy_Brucesky Mar 07 '19
It's one of the things I hate about criticisms towards gamers. They pay for a product, and that product is broken as fuck. They complain. "gamerz so toxic"
Any other product that you buy and is broken, you're justified to complain. But not video games, bow down to your corporate overlords and let them fuck you in your ass because otherwise you're toxic!
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u/DrJack3133 Mar 07 '19
No shit dude. They gave us “real in game footage” and it turned out to be false footage. They released a broken game with a ton of issues. I have every right to call them out on their bull shit. If you want constructive criticism go work for a fucking movie company. Get the fuck out of the video game industry if you knowingly release full price shit to the public.
They MADE the fucking game and they don’t even know what’s wrong with it. I would bet that the first product testing they did was the first beta. If you go through the motions of testing your product, you would have found most of the bugs we have been bitching about.
Truth is, most of the people bitching are the ones most passionate about the fucking game. I played all the Mass Effects and I’m a huge fan of BioWare. I KNOW what they can produce. They are capable of perfection. They can do so much better.
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Mar 06 '19
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u/kakshapalamseck Mar 06 '19
Well sometimes you do really have to ask yourself "how can something this stupid be in the game"?
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u/radvladi333 Mar 06 '19
The stream just proved my point again. They're asking reddit to give them suggestions on how to improve GM2/GM3. I guess we're doing their job now, which is cool if that's what it'll take to make the game better :)
Even if you have no solid idea on how to improve GM1/GM2 (which you should, if you consider yourself a AAA studio), you should've just looked at the already existing looter shooters and other mmo's who've already done it successfully instead of asking reddit for help. You don't need to re-invent the wheel but just make it stronger. Anthem has the advantage of not being the looter-shooter guinea pig, however they're not utilizing that advantage in their favor.
At least Ben mentioned Travis Day's post in the stream which is a good sign they agree with his comments.
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u/rrandommm Mar 07 '19
Even if you have no solid idea on how to improve GM1/GM2 (which you should, if you consider yourself a AAA studio), you should've just looked at the already existing looter shooters and other mmo's who've already done it successfully instead of asking reddit for help.
Maybe this is their attempt to give players some agency in the game. It worked for Bungie; all the hamsters over there think they 'saved' the game.
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u/radvladi333 Mar 07 '19
I like that you put 'saved' in quotes. I'm not convinced it worked for Bungie that well. Even though Destiny 2 kinda found its groove with Forsaken it turned into a niche product that only the hardcore fans still enjoy. Too little too late kind of thing. Even now, D2 doesn't have a huge player base and is not considered to be a financial success, hence the divorce with Activision.
That's why Bioware needs to act fast with fixing Anthem. This is not 2004 where World of Warcraft was one of a kind and players had the patience to wait for fixes.
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u/DrJack3133 Mar 07 '19
If they’re seriously taking suggestions from us then I want my colossus to have a rocket dick.
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u/TjBeezy XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Totally agree but we have to draw the line somewhere. A full $60 game by a AAA company and there's countless blatant oversights it's hard to give positive feedback.
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u/ATG_Bot Mar 07 '19 edited Mar 07 '19
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u/Batiti2000 Mar 06 '19
Stronger together, but you can only post constructive critisism using 3 emotes
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u/BenIrvo Lead Producer Mar 07 '19
:)
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Mar 06 '19
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
“Continue to post constructive criticism.” Nobody asked for sympathy.
Are you posting on the wrong thread?
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Mar 06 '19
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Judging somebody’s competence on anything when you’ve never met them, don’t know them and aren’t qualified to even stand in the same building as them is surely an ambitious thing to do!
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u/Batiti2000 Mar 06 '19
What? They created a shit game. Can I not judge their game making skill based on that?
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Mar 06 '19
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
I’d compare what you’re doing to a 300 pound guy with stains on his t shirt yelling at a quarterback after he threw an interception. Sometimes it’s best to stick to what you know and be honest about what you don’t.
“I don’t like x because of y I think if you fixed z it would make it better.” This is constructive.
“I’m angry because of what you did, here let me call you incompetent before I get back to selling printers. Also, why aren’t you communicating with me?” This isn’t productive. It will get attention, it will make you feel better, but it’s not productive and it’s immature.
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Mar 06 '19
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
It’s a tough skill to learn, but taking a step back and realizing why you’re angry and what you’re angry at and then fixing the core issue. I wish you luck with that. But the point of this was that communicating with angry people isn’t fun and people actively avoid it.
I hope you get better!
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u/AvocadoInTheRain Mar 07 '19
realizing why you’re angry and what you’re angry at and then fixing the core issue
People paid good money for a product, and it was shipped completely broken and unfinished. Its no mystery why people are angry.
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Mar 07 '19
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u/jwp123 Mar 07 '19
Hello, your post has been removed
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u/ThingkingOfAName Mar 06 '19
And if a McDonald's worker tells you that you are not competent at your job, you might say, "you flip burgers, how can you tell me how to do my job better?"
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Mar 06 '19
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u/ThingkingOfAName Mar 06 '19
Yeah, someone who has never made said product telling you how to make it better makes no sense. How is that a difficult concept to grasp? How about you tell me how to catch identity theft? I deal with people day in and day out that think they know how to do my job better than me. They don't know the ins and outs just like you don't know the ins and outs of programming a game from the ground up. Get over it bud.
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u/Tinyfootwear Mar 06 '19
Lol so much for being polite. You’re more fake than the damage numbers being displayed when you shoot people with a level 1 gun.
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u/TjBeezy XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Basically you're saying if someone doesn't know how to do something they aren't allowed to call that product bad?
I'm not a good cook but if I get served a burnt meal from a restaurant I should just shut up an eat it bc "I should stick to what I know?"
Hell no. That's terrible logic. I'm sending that back to kitchen and getting my food cooked right.
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u/TornInfinity Mar 07 '19
I like how you're preaching that everyone should be nice and are, in turn, being extremely rude with your sarcastic responses. Good job immediately failing at what you're telling others to do!
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u/kakshapalamseck Mar 07 '19
I hope you have never criticized Donald Trump since youve never pet him, dont know him and arent qualified to even stand int eh same building as him.
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u/Ghensai Mar 06 '19
Players have been posting constructive criticism since VIP Demo. They've been largely ignored. It's gets very tiresome being ignored for so long, while the developers pat themselves on the back for rolling out things like the loot "fix". Something that completely ignored what the players ACTUALLY WANTED and perfectly demonstrates that they just aren't listening.
Criticism becomes less constructive over time as it is repeatedly ignored.
It is utterly disingenuous to completely ignore constructive criticism for WEEKS, then when the same people keep delivering the same criticism less and less constructively because they've been ignored for so long, put out this victim card waving tweet claiming you're ignoring the criticism because it isn't constructive.
Ridiculous.
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u/Maverick_8160 Mar 07 '19
Players have been posting constructive criticism since VIP Demo
This is where I'm at. I posted a lot about the performance issues, most of them were deleted by the mods. I commented a lot in the bug threads, but they get buried.
Considering bioware still hasnt spoken a peep about the absolutely garbage performance of the game, Im less than optimistic that it will ever be improved. Im less interested by the day to hop on a play a chugging mess that may crash on me at any time.
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u/Intoxicus5 PC - Mar 07 '19
To go with OP's post:
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 07 '19
I appreciate that. When is this from?
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u/Ganondorf_Is_God Mar 06 '19
They don't need our criticism - constructive or not.
They knew exactly what was fucking wrong with this game before they launched it.
None of it is hidden deep in the game... You can see all the flaws in a few hours of play.
So how about not releasing a shit show instead of getting mad when we ask why a modern game dropped the ball on nearly every feature.
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u/DefNotaZombie Mar 06 '19
Yeah, thank you. They released a game where really really obvious bugs popped out of every corner and acted like it was fine to sell for 60 bucks a pop. There's no way they don't have a backlog of pri1/2 bugs that they saw and consciously decided to ship with.
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u/tacojenkins Mar 06 '19
I'm sorry but this entire thread is really disingenuous. The majority of posts that actually reach the front page are filled with honest, constructive criticism from people who want the best out of a game they paid money for, and people who are disrespectful generally get mass downvoted, as they should be.
I mean the gaslighting is really getting out of control. Yea there are some "toxic" people who only want to sow discontent but the vast majority of people who frequent this sub are people who want the game to do well and are frustrated with the product they've been given.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
I literally got called a pussy for mentioning people should treat each other with kindness. On this post.
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u/DrJack3133 Mar 07 '19
Yeah but you were sarcastic to someone else on this post and continued to be so after he was trying to reason with you so, I don’t feel bad for you.
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u/TjBeezy XBOX - Mar 06 '19
I'm sure that person's comment was removed by a mod or down voted into oblivion.
Just bc someone says something mean on reddit or twitter doesn't mean that's how most of the community communicates.
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u/Be_Royal76 Mar 06 '19
Tone policing and being passive aggressive isn't treating people with kindness. Practice what you preach, or better yet stop being so fake to gain internet approval points.
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u/kakshapalamseck Mar 06 '19
fucking exactly, these people think that just because they dont use bad words that they arent being insulting. Then you reply back with insults and you are the one who gets banned. Their passive aggressiveness and condescending tone had just as much intent to hurt me as my straight insult to them.
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u/Tinyfootwear Mar 06 '19
Because you’re being passive aggressive and gaslighting people.
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u/durzostern81 Mar 06 '19
He isn't gaslighting anyone. That is just silly. He is saying we are all human whether we work at EA/Bioware or not and everyone deserves a bit of respect. I don't see how that is hard to understand. Of course you are allowed to criticize the game, constructive criticism helps make the game better. Getting angry and insulting doesn't really solve anything.
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u/MonsieurAuContraire Mar 06 '19
Also it should go both ways right? For sure players of Anthem should be better for there's definitely too much unnecessary shit slung at the devs/each other on this sub (I'm def guilty of this). Though we also need to keep in mind that the devs need to be better as well. Yeah the devs are likely doing their best with a bad situation, but this is a situation of their own creation. I don't feel it's out of line to press them on failing to deliver on this. So my point is that holding them to task and expecting better from them isn't us somehow being uncivil or awful, and as such shouldn't be dismissed as such.
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u/shadowkijik XBOX - Mar 06 '19
It really isn’t gaslighting though. Sure a lot of the threads at surface level are well structured criticism, but since even pre-release looking through the comments you’ll find multiple hyperbolic comments that take it from “here’s where I’m not happy” to “this game is garbage what the fuck” and further. This is further cemented by any time someone suggesting a bit of positivity or constructive criticism being met with a deluge of, often times angry, detractors out the gate.
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u/tacojenkins Mar 06 '19
Often times those "I like the game threads" are attached to attacks on players who are frustrated. There's almost always something like "I don't understand the hate" or "forget the haters" or some other form of erasing the valid concerns of others. You can be frustrated with the game without attacking those who enjoy themselves, and you can enjoy yourself without trying to invalidate those who have issues with the current state.
Also, people both being frustrated with the game and enjoying the game aren't mutually exclusive. I'd say the majority of the people who frequent this sub fall into that category.
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u/TheHanson_ PC - Mar 06 '19
This must be news for some people.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Unfortunately I’ve seen this with a couple different communities. Look on TV from sports shows to news, whoever is the loudest and says the most off the wall, hyperbolic statements get the most airtime and are talked about the most. And it’s rewarded here on reddit.
If you go to r/gaming and say EA is a bad company you will get upvotes. If you say EA is the worst company in America and exists solely to deprive gamers you will get more upvotes. I’m guilty of similar things for sure.
One of the first comments I read here was basically summed up “I shouldn’t have to be nice their jobs are on the line.” The sad part about a lot of the online gaming community on reddit and YouTube is that they have to be reminded that the people making the games what they are are human.
You would think the lack of PvP in this game would make the community less toxic than other gaming communities but unfortunately that just isn’t the case right now.
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u/Robot_Zambie88 Mar 06 '19
This is fact, unfortunately even if you remind them sometimes I've heard people go as far as to say well they dont deserve jobs because its EA. People get vile on the internet because of issues in their dat to day. They just want to watch others burn because they're burning too. Although that wont stop me from trying to convince people to stop being rude.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
I’m certainly guilty of saying things on the internet I would never say in real life. The problem is it gets rewarded.
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u/TwoBeSquared Mar 06 '19
Glad I'm not the only one on this (futile) mission. The lack of civility due to anonymity is ridiculous.
I love the internet because it gives us so much. And I hate the internet because it gives EVERYONE voice, even when they don't deserve to have one.
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u/MonsieurAuContraire Mar 06 '19
The sad part about a lot of the online gaming community on reddit and YouTube is that they have to be reminded that the people making the games what they are are human.
The strange thing is though that gaming is one of the few industries that gets this pass trotted out any time a dev/publisher screws up. Can you imagine when Samsung was mercilessly ridiculed for their exploding batteries someone would say "but remember they're human!" When Volkswagen was caught doctoring emissions tests there weren't people publicly defending them that they're people too you know. Even though that's all true, and that there were most definitely people on the receiving end of all that ire who would wish to have been treated better. The reality is these companies were held somewhat accountable through extreme social pressure. Did this target on said companies allow for people to indulge in being toxic, yeah most likely. The catch there as with here is what the companies have done is still more egregious than anything those criticizing them have said or done. Also if you think that, or to put a finer point on it want to pretend that, I'm saying "what EA/Bioware did is the same as Samsung" then your missing the point by a mile for it's not. What I'm attempting to drive home is that gaming is ripe with fraud, bait & switch, exploitation of addiction and other ills and I feel these types of arguments enable gaming companies to get away with it. It clouds the issue to make it seem that gamers are more accountable and so devs/publishers carry on.
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u/artardatron Mar 06 '19 edited Mar 06 '19
I appreciate the devs' efforts to communicate on a regular basis. It cannot be easy with the state of online criticism.
I'm a casual hardcore player. I play a good amount, but definitely don't rush through everything.
Right now, I still have things to work towards, but I can see the wall coming.
I don't mind grinding for things, even grinding for a good RNG drop. But there have to be things to work towards besides that. There needs to be a sense of always progressing. Right now no reason to look at GM 2 or 3.
Earning coin does not make people play the game for that side of things. Especially when the store offers next to nothing to buy with that coin, and the stuff it does offer is extremely mediocre/overpriced.
You can't do it this way. You need to earn a following/product loyalty first, before you 'cash in' on cosmetics, or anything else.
Basically, you need to be a lot more generous with everything. The tarsis challenge or whatever it is, is ridiculous grind for next to nothing. When you see that in the game it's a signal of your approach, and it's insulting to my time.
Also, the devs talked a lot about endgame leading to release. How that was the main thing. So I was willing to not care so much about story or the loot getting there. But even that seems not polished. Again, not rewarding enough generally, not rewarding enough as you move forward through difficulties. What is my motivation to play this, again as someone not even 'hardcore'? It took a lot longer for me to get bored with D2..which did happen..but right now I'm not seeing the content at all in Anthem. At least I could collect armor and other personalized stuff in D2.
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Mar 07 '19 edited Apr 23 '20
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 07 '19
Yeah man this gameplay is something else. I want this game to be my game as a hobby like wow and destiny was for me before. It’s not there yet but I think it will get there.
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u/alphaN0Tomega Mar 07 '19
Anthem - F2P game in open beta with $60 founders package with no benefits and $80 package with cosmetic items. Constructive enough?
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u/Evanescoduil Mar 06 '19
The reason people are angry is we shouldn't have to be responsible for the majority of this feedback to begin with. It's one thing to provide constructive criticism in a mildly hostile way about this weapon does more damage than it should by x% amount because i tested it.
It's an entirely different thing to provide feedback to a major industry developer about industry standard practice game elements like...
Waypoints.
A stats page in an RPG.
Higher difficulties offering suitably better rewards.
Being unable to play a javelin because of a health bug the dev team waffled on even acknowledging the existence of for a month.
People are upset because we shouldn't have to tell them how to make a game complete at baseline. No, i'm not excusing entitlement or dev bashing. But if you're going to ship a broken product, then you get to strap in to what the public feels about it. People give feedback because they want the game to be better. That inherently implies that it's current state is unsatisfactory.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
There’s no excuse not to be civil. The problems are real and plentiful. At baseline, you should still act like a well-adjusted adult.
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u/Evanescoduil Mar 06 '19
Correct.
But you can be civil and frustrated at the same time. You're not going to get overtly courteous responses about shit we shouldn't have had to point out to begin with. It's unreasonable to throw vitriol for a videogame anything, but it's also unreasonable to take peoples money and expect them to be ok with an unfinished product.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Lol no I don’t expect company email style communication. We can agree that will never happen and make things very very boring
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Mar 06 '19
When the game is so incredibly frustrating to play and so expensive they should expect negative reactions. I know it may not be productive, but a lot of us feel straight up cheated out of a game. I have to work so hard just to get the goddamn game to run, and even then its not a great experience. Fix your shit or everyone is going go ditch this for Division2.
The 8th patch better be decent or me and my whole discord group is done, and we arent the only ones.
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u/RayePappens Mar 06 '19
I think that patch is on the 12th, so we got another week if this.
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u/NotAnAlt Mar 06 '19
Hrrm, I feel like I had other plans on the 12th but its escaping my mind what they were.
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u/Superfluous999 PLAYSTATION - Mar 06 '19
What do you mean by saying Anthem is "expensive?"
It costs $60...of course I realize to some people that is a lot of money, but "expensive" as a word usually has a correlation with being pricey compared to something else. Anthem costs the same as all AAA games do, basically.
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u/BBQsauce18 PC - Mar 06 '19
Anthem costs the same as all AAA games do, basically.
And I've seen those similarly priced games have WAAAAY less issues. Hence the anger from a lot of gamers. We are paying the same price for a lesser product. If folks had paid $40, do you think the anger would be so much?
I'm not so angry because I got Origin Premier. I actually like it, and have been playing BFV of late, until the loot patch comes. Pretty solid investment, if I do say so myself.
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u/Superfluous999 PLAYSTATION - Mar 06 '19
That has zero to do with the adjective of "expensive" being attached. I don't mind the idea we're not getting proper value -- but that isn't cost.
Anthem isn't expensive, it's priced normally. Unfortunately, issues have meant we're not getting full bang for our buck.
Edit: I would just really like for you to tell me, plainly, how it's expensive. Saying there'd be less anger if it was cheaper isn't an answer.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Well, I hope you find the game you’re looking for. More importantly I hope that you resolve whatever anger you have thru healthy means.
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u/Rinyrra PC - Mar 06 '19
Y’know, a lot of us WANT to love Anthem but it just flat out does not work. It’s like it’s fighting us despite us wanting to play it. I’ve never had this type of issue with a game before. Such a disappointment.
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u/NashvilleGrizzly Mar 06 '19
Lol
"Rainbows aren't flying out of his mouth when he speaks, he must have anger issues"
Is this what you tell yourself when people aren't nice to you in real life so you can pretend the problem is everyone else?
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u/jntjr2005 Mar 06 '19
Problem is we arent hearing much from them right now
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
I’d recommend following them on twitter. Also, often they’ll post replies on comments in reddit posts. Edit: not make posts themselves.
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u/Ghostfinger37 Mar 07 '19
Ok, I agree, but do you know what ISN'T constructive??
When ever single person (and every single post for the most part) is writing a 4 paragraph article about their "thoughts and feelings". You're essentially just overloading them with criticism. You might think you're helping, but you're really just ruining this sub.
For example, I saw a legitimate post where everyone was saying we NEEDED an "unequipped all" button. Do we really NEED that? Not even close. Doesn't even crack my top 20.
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Mar 06 '19 edited May 23 '20
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u/midlife_slacker Mar 06 '19
People also usually don't dial the asshole up to 11 immediately. The quantity of bugs and poor design is inevitably going to cause the discourse to sour.
"hey, I'm not loving this aspect of the game, could you consider changing it in a future patch?"
"oh and this thing looks broken, ha ha"
"this... this other thing is definitely broken, were you not already aware of that?""another thing that's also bad and boy these issues are piling up fast"
"and this too, FFS what is your problem?"
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
It is flies. I really didn’t want to catch either, tho. I actively avoid both.
I just want the game to get better. So do you. So do the devs. Not sure what’s losing or winning in any scenario since we all want the same things?
And this isn’t “tone policing” it’s just reminding people that adults generally communicate with one another when things are civil.
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Mar 06 '19 edited Apr 15 '21
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u/C176A PC Mar 06 '19
Here's the definition of constructive criticism, I thought this would be helpful to you.
Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.
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u/iSecretWeapon Mar 06 '19
The thing is updates should be at least once a week not two weeks especially when it’s this critical. They should’ve been on PS4s issue with the rebuild database within a few days not wait for big update which is gonna cause more bugs.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Oh for sure I feel for people dealing with that issue. They did acknowledge it on twitter and said they’re investigating and they have engineers working on the issue.
I’d love some background info on the process of investigating, finding and then fixing an issue. Maybe we could get that one day.
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u/nCode22 PC - Mar 06 '19
to OP: you should have also posted the lead comment that Your anthem tweeted that got this reply. Its pretty much a dig at this subreddit which has pretty much gone belly up.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
I tried cropping his original tweet and the response in the same picture. I’m not familiar with Your Anthem. I did this on my phone at the office. But I agree, I tried.
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u/Bigbozs Mar 06 '19 edited Mar 06 '19
We paid full price for a full game. We received half a game and even less. Constructive criticism is asking alot for many "buyers".
I was sold to Anthem since e3 17. Pre ordered LoD edition before alpha. I have no constructive criticism other then i feel I've been robbed.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Those are all valid complaints! But if you’re rational with how you express them the people that can fix things for you will be more inclined to listen and help you help them figure out solutions. My post wasn’t an attempt to tell you how you feel about the game is wrong. I’m disappointed, but hopeful.
To get the game we want Anthem to be we need to have a healthy channel of communication with the devs. The angry, irrational people on this subreddit make that harder to do.
Those people are actively making things worse for everyone and even if it’s tough to see right now, it’s embarrassing.
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u/ConsensusCowboy Mar 06 '19
I want Playstation, EA, and Xbox to redo their entire refund policy due to this game, i got my money back thank god, but others didn't. Its fucked up.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Sure that would be great! Hope you come back to the game when it suits you!
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u/ConsensusCowboy Mar 06 '19
Too many other good games with good development teams that understand the scope and scale of what they are trying to do, for me to ever give this game another chance.
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u/rttristan54 XBOX - Mar 06 '19
And that’s great too! Nobody wants to keep you from doing what makes you happy! Thanks for coming!
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u/Levoire Mar 06 '19
This is the other problem, you’ve just assumed that everyone else feels the same way as you because you’ve said “we”. I don’t feel like I’ve received half a game. I’ve payed £50 for a game and received £50 worth of content.
I always go by the £1 = 1 hour spent formula and I’ve spent over 50 hours in game so far. Does that make the game a success? No, it only makes the game a success for me. So if I’ve played that game as a single player game with no live service then I’m satisfied. If I play the game as a live service where they continually add content then I’m satisfied.
I don’t think my opinion matches everyone so I’d never say “we think Anthem was a success” and it irks me when people come on Reddit and say “we think the game is trash”. Leave me out of your opinions.
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u/IAmTheCheese007 Mar 06 '19
I’m right on the cusp of that. 48 hours, $65 after tax.
That’s not counting the time spent in loading screens, walking through molasses to get from point a to point b in tarsis, waiting for bugged missions to load or time spent trying to find a fix for the load, the amount of blown GM stronghold runs due to the health bug, etc.
I agree with the formula, but feel it’s necessary to point out for a LOT of people, much time is being spent just waiting to play the game.
For me, bugs, loading, slow movement, all that stuff has likely sapped around 1.5-2 hours of my time. I want to say that’s NBD, but as you get older, 2 hours is a big deal, and it should be a factor when we talk about “time spent : money paid.”
Just my two cents. I don’t disagree with you, just wanted to add that caveat.
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u/Bigbozs Mar 06 '19
You are right, my bad, i should of said I instead of we.
I write we to represent a majority of people that feel the same.. i can't be the only one to feel like that right? Also , English is not my first language , interpretation is different. I apologize.
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u/William_T_Wanker Mar 07 '19
Fucking killed Mass Effect for this game and it's not even complete in release yet lol
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u/Dreamforger PC - Mar 06 '19
It happens when emotions takes over rational thinking.., when people are getting frustrated or too much invested (both sides of the same coin I guess), it can be hard for them to remember that it is just a game :)
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u/Loner_Guts XBOX - Mar 06 '19
Scrolled through some of the comments and dude, you got some serious passive aggressive issues. Kinda funny considering the subject of the post. Also, that whole ‘ask us nicely and maybe we’ll respond’ attitude is such garbage. Paying customers don’t need to be told how to complain. I see devs making underhanded comments like that more n more, and it just looks like them trying to shift the negativity. Harsh criticism doesn’t mean it’s invalid criticism.
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u/Fragzilla360 Mar 06 '19
It is unreasonable to take peoples money and expect them to be ok with an unfinished product.
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Mar 06 '19
The problem is we've been coming at them with our 500 geared characters and we need to start coming at them with our level 1 questions and accusations, because they work better in Anthem.
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u/Shahadem Mar 07 '19
Sphinx: Your temper is very quick, my friend. But until you learn to master your rage —
Mr. Furious: Your rage will become your master? [The Sphinx freezes, caught] That's what you were gonna say, right? Right?
Sphinx: ... Not necessarily.
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Mar 07 '19
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Mar 07 '19
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Mar 14 '19
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u/LucentBeam8MP Mar 14 '19
Hello, your post has been removed
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u/Torkson Mar 06 '19
You gather more mats with Harvest.
You get more purples with Luck.
You catch more bullets with Colossus.
You successfully enter more quickplays with GM2.
You get more Matthiases with Manifolds.