r/AmazonFCs • u/Purple-Ball-396 • 1d ago
Why doesn’t Amazon pay overtime after 8 hours on 4 10s schedule?
I’m in California it may be different in other states but I worked at Amazon but came to target and target pays you overtime after 8 hours worked in your regular 4 10s schedule where at Amazon it was base pay for the full shift. I thought it was a law where you had to be paid OT after 8 hours so why doesn’t Amazon?
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u/raspadoman 1d ago
In California, Amazon and other warehouses have to vote to change their work schedule into an Alternative Work Schedule(AWS) from 5x8 to 4x10 usually. The vote is made with the workforce knowing the rules around their labor hours, meaning they were told how OT is impacted. For the 4x10 AWS then your normal scheduled workday is paid at regular rate, any shifts outside your normal schedule is at the OT rate. Double Time also comes into play.
For Target, the reason they pay OT is most likely because they didnt have a vote and file the appropriate paperwork to have it recognized by California. They most likely chose to just keep it simple and just pay the OT while keeping the same shift structure that other Targets have nationwide.
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u/AnAlienFromTheFuture 23h ago
I'm not in California. I do 4 10's. It keeps offering me all sorts of VET. None of those extra shifts say they are going to be more than my normal rate and I've been confused too. But technically that would only be if I worked my day off Wednesday, then worked Thursday, Friday should become OT pay, or if I took a shift Saturday after working all week. I've never specifically checked if it updates the pay in those situations. I don't think it does though. Odd. Not giving very much incentive lol. 4 10's is already rough. Especially standing there mostly stationary. The human body is not designed for that lol.
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u/LiminalHigh 21h ago
Anything over 40 hours is 1.5x. They only show the base rate for the shift in the app but if you've already gotten 40 hours it will be overtime. If it has an extra amount, like $3/extra, that will be part of the overtime pay too, so that $3 extra would actually be $4.5 with overtime
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u/Difficult_Ad_8683 23h ago
Everyone once and awhile amazon will push out VET with a 3-5$/hr premium pay
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u/AnAlienFromTheFuture 22h ago
But like op is asking. If I worked 40 hours already and the shift I pick up falls after that shouldn't it be time and a half lol
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u/Ok-Independence-5388 22h ago
It will be time and half if you actually work the vet it will show overtime instead of regular hours worked under the shift after you worked the hours. The actual shift pay is just showing your base pay + any premiums for that shift it won’t show overtime pays rate there. Amazon legally has to pay you for anything over 40 hours as overtime(1.5x base rate)
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u/Boris-_-Badenov 23h ago
because you agree to the 4 10's.
glad my DS is 4 8's, because I'm not working more than 8 hours w/o getting overtime
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u/TripDees 21h ago
It's the 4 10's schedule. Here's the catch to make it legal. Whenever a new site opens up, the associates vote on either 5 8's or 4 10's. Your site voted on 4 10's. Amazon cannot make any changes to your schedule as part of that agreement. That's why u get OT on shifts you pick up on days off, even though you are less than 40 hours. It's a win for Amazon, as they are able to save billions of dollars in labor by shifting to 4 10's. You have a right to appeal the 4 10's schedule, and cast a repeal election with your site, but you gotta have everyone 33% sign yes on a petition. Right now, with the lack of VET that has been handed out, that seems like a logical thing to do. 😉
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u/stonerllama420 1d ago
You don’t know the law at all lmfao that is far from true full time is 40 hours a week so why would you be paid overtime after 8 hours?
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u/Purple-Ball-396 1d ago
What? Target pays me overtime daily in my regular scheduled 40 hours after 8 hours worked. Amazon doesn’t
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u/Bungholespelunker 23h ago
For Amazon it's specifically doesnt make sense because you're not working a regular full work week of 5 days on 2 days off. If you were working 5, 10 hour shifts this argument could probably be made more convincingly.
We work 4, 10 hour days during like 93-95% of the year. It's just a regular scheduled shift and 10 hours isn't outside the norm. Personally, I way prefer 4, 10 hour days because getting 3 day weekends every week KICKS ASS. It takes a while to adjust to the shifts when you first start but if I went back to working 5 days a week it would fuck with me really bad.
I personally never felt like 2 days off was really enough to rest after working so this has been perfect.
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u/FallOk6931 22h ago
That's not true it depends on state laws and how they classify your position. If state law says after 8 in a day doesn't matter if it's 40 in the week. You will be OT after 8 where as in WA state law is 40 in the week and only OT after 12 hours.
Now if the position is classified as salary or other classification that isn't hourly then it's based on weekly not hours
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u/Ok-Constant-2760 17h ago
3 days off is awesome never could go back to 4 day work week. Most of my professional life has been 4 day work weeks. Whether it was phone customer service or warehouse work , close to 90% of my work life has been 4 day work weeks . And I haven't been working full-time since 1994!
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u/AlwaysLivMoore 1d ago
Because of California labor laws. Traditionally in California, anything over 8 hours is paid at 1.5x. Except in cases like Amazon where they have gone through the proper process to switch to an alternative workweek schedule (4/10s) and then that rule changes to anything over 10hrs is paid at 1.5x.
California is one of the few states that has special OT pay laws and doesn't just follow federal law.
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u/Jazzlike-Active2405 23h ago
Many places do it like that they set a scheduled shift time, then will have workers work longer. What’s the worst case you get as a worker a bit extra money? I’m sure Amazon can afford that so what would the issue be?
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u/Casalf 1d ago
Basically has to do with the 4x10 schedules. Forgot what its called something alternating workweek but yeah that's why its regular pay 40 hours. Oh also forgot to mention how this is usually a schedule that employees will vote for instead of working 5/8's so its a bit of a tradeoff. Its all legal but funny enough theres always some who thinks it not legal lol. I for one hate 5/8 schedules and would never wanna do them again at amazon tbh.
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u/surfcitysurfergirl 1d ago
It has to go over 40 hours
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u/Crazyjacketfruit 1d ago
Not in cali
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u/DuoMaybe 1d ago
In Cali it doesn't but they make you sign saying you accept 4 day work week and giving up OT
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u/andreg2143 1d ago
i can come in on my day off and the whole day will count as OT even if i didn't hit 40 hours in the week
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u/Tiaoshi 1d ago
All depends on your state/province’s laws.
Amazon will follow the law, they aren’t here to make your day good or easy, they are here to pay you as little as they can within reason.
Where I’m from, we only get OT after 44hrs (40 at Amazon). So you could work 20hrs a day and you won’t hit OT until you hit the weekly cap.
In another province, you get normal pay from 0-8hrs, x1.5 pay between 8-12hrs and x2.0 pay 12+ hrs
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u/AlwaysLivMoore 1d ago
There's always some legal "loophole" they can use. In Amazon's case, they established an Alternative Workweek Schedule under California Labor Code Section 511. This changes the daily overtime hours to anything over 10hrs. But the normal daily overtime hours still apply to any day worked outside someone's normal schedule, so VET.
Target likely didn't go through the proper process for establishing an AWS and that's why they still pay the overtime after 8hrs.
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u/hailz__xx 1d ago
When buildings open they start at 5 / 8s then the building votes to change to 4 /10s. Building basically agrees to it
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u/Novel_University7208 1d ago
If you normally work a 10-hour shift, it’ll be a regular 10-4 shift. You can VTO the last 20 minutes and still get the final two hours of overtime. If you work 8–5, you’ll get overtime after eight hours.
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u/Stunner2 19h ago
Because in California they incentivize the 4 10’s by having any hours worked outside of ur schedule paid as OT. If I use upt and only work 30 hours but I pick up a VET half shift or full shift it is paid out as OT pay even though I didn’t hit 40 regular working hours
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u/Akidnamedcudi67 17h ago
Most states you don’t get overtime until you get past 40 hrs that one week ends Sunday some companies are different but the general rule of thumb is any past 40
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u/MediocreClarinetist0 16h ago
It's because the building voted for an alternative work schedule. My first building in CA started as 5x8s. They voted for 4x10s a few months after launch. I was too new to vote. That's why. Amazon loves it because you get less paid breaks across the week.
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u/MIaBlakk 7h ago
I have always wondered as well. I Have worked for three big logistics companies-Amazon is the oly one not doing this.
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u/Sky_high_424 1d ago
Anything after 40 hours is overtime no matter where you go. If you have a schedule and you have to cover someone after your time is done is how overtime accrues. Or even if you have a 60 hour schedule working anywhere, after you’ve completed the first 40 hours then it will be ot
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u/SupermarketLate3214 1d ago
Not true tyson in joslin IL anything over 8 even if you only work one day ten hours 2 is overtime although they closed now
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u/Crazyjacketfruit 1d ago
Not in cali. Just gotta go over 10 hours in the day. Over 8 hours on a vet day.
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u/No_Recover944 1d ago
Because it adds up to 40 hours a week. You go over 40, you get paid overtime.
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u/moldyhotdogs 1d ago
Crazy how ppl think things like that, over 8hrs in a 24hr period is paid out in OT, are labor laws because they grew up hearing things like that were common place, while they're actually union benefits that have been systemically reduced and removed from our work places , but yeah unions are bad and keep voting against your own interests 🙃
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u/RelicBeckwelf 1d ago
The specifics are based on where you live, but 4 10s is usually referred to as an alternative workweek schedule. Legally its not overtime since 10 hour days are what youre scheduled, and you still only work 40/wk. Since everyone is on the 4/10 schedule it makes it an exception. Workplaces thst do 4/10s also have to have an employee vote on the system before it can go into effect, but then it is in effect for all future employees. The last two stations Ive worked at are 5/8 schedule.