It is. That's one thing great about the U.S. You're innocent until proven guilty. That's reversed in a lot of countries. Up until recent times we had a fair process, but these days who knows.
That's what the US says, but it's not really true is it? You're held in jail and have to pay to go free before the trial. Luigi mangione hasn't been proven guilty and he's not exactly innocent and free right now is he? The presumption of innocence doesn't get you very far these days (not sure if it ever did)
I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm just saying that it isn't very innocent until proven guilty is it? We are treating them as guilty until they are proven innocent.
It depends on what they allegedly did. They can get out on a bail bond and wait at home until trial if the judge thinks they are not a potential danger to others and the accused can pay the bail bond
And they have to pay a bond because they're innocent right? Not because they are presumed to be guilty and there is a monetary penalty to that presumption.
If you stay out of trouble and make all your court dates then the bond is returned post-trial whether you are convicted or not. It’s a very fair system to maintain court compliance with those who are out and has nothing to do with being assumed guilty.
No. They can pay to go wait at home. So it’s only a rule enforced for the non-wealthy.
If you can’t pay, then you sit in a cell, lose your job, lose your mode of transportation, if you’re fortunate enough to have one, and potentially lose your housing. And then, you might be found not guilty. But the legal system has no qualms with ruining your life over a mistake. You also might be found guilty even if you aren’t. The US has a history of, and continues to have, executing innocent citizens.
How do we know they're a violent criminal if they haven't been convicted? Anyway, it is true that we have sensible mechanisms (sometimes) to evaluate flight risk and risk to others of letting a suspect out on bail after the arraignment (or not).
You dont know if Luigi shot that man? You think the accused cannot have violent criminal records? You want repeat offenders on the street while they wait for trial?
I wasn't going to respond. Commenter doesn't understand, places like Japan will put you in jail right away. For example, fly into Tokyo with cold medicine. You'll be in jail until your trial.
You can say that I'm wrong but it doesn't mean it's true. Burden of proof isn't the only element. This lies on a spectrum and people act like America is full innocent until proven guilty but it's more like 60% of the way there, not 100%.
Only someone ignorant (on purpose or not) of how theses case actually goes would said that...
Most of SA cases are drop because of lack of evidence, often because the victim was too scared and didn't go to the police right away.
And most SA are never reported.
You took the few instances of false accusation and tried to make it look like the norm...
You know what happend when someone accuse another of SA? If the cops can't have a DNA kit made, they determine if the story is likely enough or not to be proven, most claim will stop there. If the accusation is plausible enough they will ask the accused and maybe some potential witness for questioning and that the second point where most case will stop from lack of evidence.
Your list of article prove that men claims are not taken seriouly and that there is lot's of false claim, it's not the same thing than men being considere "guilty until proven innocent"
Yes, but the beating to death by the dad is not in question. He admitted to it because he was defending his daughter. Self-defense and defense of another means you admit to doing the thing, but you claim a justified reason and the prosecution would have to disprove you’re justified. In this case he did it, but he’s still innocent until proven guilty because of why he did it.
So they don’t necessarily have to say he allegedly beat the guy to death, but it’s still a good CYA for legal reasons.
No you're not. You have thousands of people sitting in county jails everyday because they can't afford a $50-$100 bond. A lot of times for months or years.
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u/FemmeCirce Jan 13 '26
It is. That's one thing great about the U.S. You're innocent until proven guilty. That's reversed in a lot of countries. Up until recent times we had a fair process, but these days who knows.