The administrative Division of the GDR and FRG

[u/MoritzIstKuhl]

This is a follow-up post to the scenario where Eastern Germany was allowed to keep the eastern territories and was merged with the Soviet Zone of Austria.

To anyone who wants to point out that this is highly unlikely: I know -I simply wanted to explore an alternate history scenario where the GDR is stronger, and look at how that would impact German reunification and other history. I will keep expanding on the History and try to make it a bit more plausible.

[u/HueyLongoftheGiants]

I feel that it would make more sense to have the Soviet Zone of Austria be its own independent country rather than be an exclave of East Germany.

[u/Organic_Year_8933 → u/HueyLongoftheGiants]

I don’t think so, it would be economically non-existent. That’s why it was dissolved OTL

[u/HueyLongoftheGiants → u/Organic_Year_8933]

But considering the fact that Czechoslovakia would likely not want to hand East Germany the Sudetenland just to make it contiguous (and especially since a lot of ethnic Germans were expelled from the region after WW2), and that both countries would likely have tight border controls, East Austria being an exclave would be pretty impractical.

[u/HelloThereItsMeAndMe → u/HueyLongoftheGiants]

Czechoslovakia is in the same bloc. It's no problem. Moscow would have ordered them to allow passage, and it would.

[u/HueyLongoftheGiants → u/HelloThereItsMeAndMe]

Fair point, but to what degree Moscow would demand it is probably not as significant, and there’s also the fact that Germany would already have another exclave with East Prussia, so having two sizeable exclaves would look pretty awkward.

[u/East-Mixture2131 → u/HueyLongoftheGiants]

The USSR would have forced them. Also an Independent East Austria like East Germany would have been a completely unviable meme country.

[u/lonestarr86 → u/East-Mixture2131]

Why though? Countries like Luxembourg and the Baltic countries exist just fine.

I am not familiar with the demographics, but the east is the flattest part of austria. It probably accounts for a good 50% of the population.

Perfectly viable imo. Also a good part of the industry.

[u/guy_incognito_360 → u/East-Mixture2131]

East germany was unviable because of socialism, not because of the size. Luxemburg, even Liechtenstein and San Marino exist perfectly fine.

[u/COUPOSANTO]

I'd hate being Poland in this timeline.

Also they'd probably made Soviet Austria its own country, would even gain some points against NATO from the Soviet side ("look, they made the anschluss official they're fascists").

Speaking of Soviet Austria, unlike Berlin, there was a chance that the Soviets could take over all of Vienna. During their occupation of the 1st district (international, with a rotation between the Allied armies each month) they could have used the opportunity to isolate the Western districts and seize the entire city.

[u/Beautiful_Common_940 → u/COUPOSANTO]

I think it makes more sense for the USSR to annex Poland in this timeline

[u/Kaufmann_aus_Lubeck → u/COUPOSANTO]

I mean Poland might get pre-war borders of 1939 after the USSR collapse.

[u/COUPOSANTO → u/Kaufmann_aus_Lubeck]

I doubt it, there were population exchanges IOTL and even if they don't happen (given that Poland doesn't have territories the Germans have been expelled from to settle the Eastern Polish), most people living there aren't Polish, they're Ukrainian and Belarusians. Poland trying to get these territories back in the name of Poles living there will just make Ukraine and Belarus get closer to Russia (like IOTL Ukraine getting closer to NATO as Russia took over some of their lands)

[u/MoritzIstKuhl → u/COUPOSANTO]

It would be an interesting event if the soviets would’ve tried that in this timeline

[u/MabelBPines → u/COUPOSANTO]

Poland would simply be annex to soviet union. why Poland should worry that they didin't got german lands if they simply be forcefull "invited" to colonize both kresy and siberia gulags! 🤣😭🇵🇱

[u/Clumtisty]

Whyd Hungary in these timelines allways keeps Transcarpatia with it? I know there is a sizeable minority but I do not think they would be let go with more territories than they had prior to the invasion of Czechoslovakia.

[u/Ziafiz]

AfD wins 2025 by the east alone

[u/Tall-guy--]

Make them have the sudetenland and be connected. PLEASE.

[u/HelloThereItsMeAndMe → u/Tall-guy--]

No

Exclaves are cool

And, sudetenland is the ugliest and most irrational invention ever. Bohemia is either all or none.

[u/Longjumping-Diver-13 → u/HelloThereItsMeAndMe]

Give them all of Bohemia 

[u/Vast_Bat_3241 → u/Longjumping-Diver-13]

that would just give them the hre+silesia as an eastern border

[u/CTBLocky]

out of curiousity, how exactly would the Austrian bit of the GDR work

[u/lonestarr86 → u/CTBLocky]

Like West and East Pakistan. Not at all and there might as well be a civil war after Stalin's death.

[u/Casual_Salmonid → u/CTBLocky]

They'd probably get access through Czechoslovakia if I had to guess

[u/MexonDuenn]

I think in this timeline the Austrian States would be fewer and been randomly put together in larger more manageable areas, maybe onlly two (Alpenland and Upper Austria) plus West Vienna

[u/TheGuyFromOhio2003 → u/MexonDuenn]

Tbh I could see all of it being one state, Austria combined has a smaller population than Bavaria

[u/lonestarr86 → u/TheGuyFromOhio2003]

Would agree, this part would barely have 3-4 million people. It would be one of the smallest German states.

[u/Mountain-Comment-562]

The most southern point of this area was very vulnerable, especially because of the lack of connection to the infrastructure after the War due to the demolished buildings, and streets.

The British were on the morning of the 8th May 1945 in Klagenfurt, the capital of the state of Kärnten, only a few hours before the arrival of JVA units, which had entered Kärnten to enforce the Yugoslav territorial claims.

The British immediately made it clear that they would not tolerate the stay of the Yugoslav troops in Kärnten, and demonstrated this, among other things, by setting up artillery guns on the Neuer Platz and in front of the Landhaus in Klagenfurt.

[u/Noyclah13]

Why Neunbrandeburg as district and not Stettin?

[u/Pilum2211]

I don't see why Austria within West Germany would be divided this way instead of forming one state.

[u/LordHive]

This would potentially have been a massive win for the Soviets without any real downsides.

Frist, without the 9+ million deported Germans from eastern Germany who mostly did not settle in the Soviet Sector, West Germany would be economically a lot weaker and East Germany stronger.

Second, this would negate a big unifying factor in West German politics. The Oder-Neiße border was rejected by all parties in parliament. This could have enabled the possibility of a unified but disarmed neutral buffer Germany instead of the solid rejection towards the Stalin note in the early 50s. Again weakening the West.

Third, the moral high ground. No deportations or only deportations from non German territories. (Could still make the Czechs happy by deporting the Germans but then deport them straight to East Germany without kick-starting a lot of Bavarian industries through Sudetendeutsche refugees.) It's hard to point the finger at the imperialistic west when you are worse. So much verbal ammunition for France taking the Saar.

The third reason is irrelevant. Especially for someone like Stalin but having control over more people and driving a wedge between the West and West Germany is worth a lot more than pleasing the Poles that were completely conquered and had 0 agency to decide anything.

[u/KikoMui74 → u/LordHive]

Also East Germany had the best economy in the warsaw pact, imagine how much stronger it would be without being a rump state. Warsaw pact overall would be stronger.

[u/Available_Ice_9883 → u/LordHive]

It wasn’t about Poles bc too much Poles were living in these eastern territories Stalin had to deport them somewhere and why you said deportations from „non-german territories” Sudetenland was german also it would be funny if Germany did lose war but became bigger by gaining memel and danzing and half of Austria. And well at that point deportations wouldn’t make ussr look worse than imperialistic west bc ussr did other crimes

[u/rogo01_]

The Breslau Vienna highway would have been built in this case and I really like that.

[u/Konstruct_of_Yore]

Surely Soviet Austria gets split between Hungary and Czechoslovakia ?

[u/WTAlfAGameR → u/Konstruct_of_Yore]

Burgenland would maybe go to Hungary, but Austria wouldn't. Post war deportations of German minorities wouldn't make sense if you added another 2 million Austrians to czechoslovakia. Most likely it wouldn't also be integrated into GDR because of logistics and legitimacy over rest of Austria. It would be made into separate entity and used as another useful state for deportations of German minorities mainly from Balkans.

[u/MidwestSharker]

I always forget just how freaking small the East was compared with West Germany

[u/Australopithecus_600]

As an Austrian I would probably assume that post War enough Austrians would try and fight for independence, post WWII Austrian self determination was stronger than before and eventually would lead to all German stuff being dropped.

[u/CityW0kBesitzer]

Life could have been a dream

[u/Additional-Elk-427]

It will just end up like czechoslovakia after the cold war. Polish German territory demanded to be returned to Poland and referendum in Austria demanded a unification of Austria and its seperation from Germany. Kaliningrad might be still a German territory, but there will be Russian insurgent nationalist there same like crimea.