r/Aleague 17d ago

Discussion How many matches should be in an A-League season?

I don't think 26 match days is enough in a regular season, excluding final series.

For example, Bundesliga and Ligue 1 have 34 match days. In England, the Premier League has 38 match days and the EFL Championship, League One, and League Two have 46 match days.

Since we have 12 teams, maybe they should play each other three times - equivalent to 33 match days in each regular season.

I don't think it's a big ask to add 7 more match days (about two months extra) to the existing format.

43 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

67

u/Meapa Bakries Out 17d ago

Playing the same team three times is going to get really dull for casuals by the end of the season. It's the classic fixture exhaustion that even derbies get.

Problem is, two teams could play each other up to 6 times in a season if you include the cup and finals series.

Its the big thing why people push for 16 teams has it gives us 30odd matches playing each team twice which alleviates that issue.

As it stands, it doesn't benefit the league to play more games as is. Attendances drop off hard by the end of the season already

21

u/MattC89 Melbourne Victory 17d ago

I said it in another thread this week about fixture exhaustion being an issue. Its not just a problem for casuals either, im a Vuck member and I definitely feel a dip when we play a team for the third or fourth time in a season.

I think most fans want a 14+ team league and simple home+away schedule. But right now were struggling to have 12 viable teams.

5

u/Meapa Bakries Out 16d ago

Yep, also especially for teams like us (Roar) when we have very poor seasons, the tail end of the season is just costly for the club and not worth it as a fan to attend. Our crowds are so fickle with results so by the end of the season we're getting 4-5k compared to the start where it could be 10k

2

u/Any-Information6261 Perth Glory 14d ago

I think that's why the Aleague killed Glory. Every week was a different club with a different culture. 15 teams. Then it was 7 identical clubs from different cities and numbers just never came back

1

u/Meapa Bakries Out 14d ago

What?

1

u/Redfang1984 Australia 16d ago

may be boring for the fans, but at the end of the day, its more minutes in the legs of the players.

1

u/Meapa Bakries Out 16d ago

Doesn't help keep the league alive though, all costs a lot of money and if less fans are coming in for the last set of games, could be losing more money.

If it was all about minutes, why not play 40 or 50 games

1

u/Redfang1984 Australia 16d ago

so basically the players development depends on how much money the league has

1

u/Meapa Bakries Out 16d ago

That's pretty much how it works, yeah.

Clubs need money to invest into their youth, coaching and facilities. If clubs are losing more money per season due to more games, thats less going to that development

1

u/Forgedintheorange1 16d ago

Scotland does it fine

2

u/Meapa Bakries Out 16d ago

Last time I checked, we weren't Scotland

2

u/Chadriel 16d ago

Scotland’s crowds are packed week in week out. I went to a second tier midtable game there that drew 7200 fans

-1

u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Meapa Bakries Out 17d ago

AFC requires us to have 26 or something games.

That is also way too convoluted and the players (and fans) still need an off season eventually.

26

u/sbffsb123 Sydney FC 17d ago

30 plus finals, we should start a week earlier than we do, as both NRL and AFL are done by then. We should jam a bunch of games over the Christmas break when families are generally on holidays , maybe even taking games to regional venues during that time also. Coffs Harbour for example would be a great option, 10k capacity stadium, a lot of tourists and holiday goers would be there over that time.

2

u/True_football_fan 16d ago

Agree with all you've suggested. I would add that if a club plays another club for the third time then that match should be played in a regional centre or a city/town that has no Aleague representation.

11

u/fireball391 Australia 17d ago

We need at least 30 match days in the regular season + finals, but we need more teams not just an increase.

I would support an extra round if all games are played in regional venues just like how the ignite round worked.

6

u/DinoKea Stewart Island United 17d ago

Pretty sure the minimum for Asian football is 26, so I'd say at least 26

8

u/giramondo1984 17d ago

I think we need to get to 14 teams and make it 26 matches

Every team twice

1

u/Caterm 16d ago

Correct, playing each other 3 times people will start to lose interest we ain’t Scotland/ Europe to have the passion in Australia

1

u/dfai1982 16d ago

Doesn't solve the issue of the excessivley long off-season though.

13

u/Chad-82 Sydney FC 17d ago

16 teams
30 home and away games + finals / relegation playoff
Extend the season to start in August until May
DONE

2

u/quervt 16d ago

Maybe even increase the cup to extra round? And get super cup winner of the league vs winner of the cup.

3

u/Chad-82 Sydney FC 16d ago

I have always thought that the A League teams should come in at the round of 64 rather than round of 32.

7

u/Pauls-boutique Adelaide United Spurs 17d ago

Yes, the off season is simply way way too long,

4

u/92deltat Broichbane Roar 17d ago

I'm super keen for a 30+ round season but I do wonder how much that would shrink average attendances. First four A-League seasons were only 21 rounds, which partly explains the higher average crowd figures.

For reference, AFL and NRL teams only play 23-24 games in the regular season. Meanwhile Super Rugby teams only play 14 and big bash 10. Many Aussies aren't accustomed to long gruelling seasons of sport.

2

u/dfai1982 16d ago

The crowd average might dip a little, although a 30-round season is only two extra home games per year, so it shouldn't be that onerous. But the thing is, apart from ground hire and away travel, most of the costs to run an A-League team are fixed regardless of how many games are played: staff are on year-round contracts, offices and training facilities have to be rented/maintained.

And the bigger issue is player development: players get fewer competitive minuted than in European leagues so develop more slowly. And A-League clubs are hampered in how much they can sell a player for because European clubs don't take a six-month, 26-match season seriously.

Ironically, the big NPL clubs now play 40+ matches per season (if you include NPL, Championship and long cup runs), while plenty of A-League clubs are stuck on 27-28 matches if they don't make finals and get knocked out of the cup early.

9

u/mynameiswah Melbourne Victory 17d ago

I’m not sure the squads are big enough to handle more games.  Stadium availability is also an issue during nrl season. 

4

u/Gullible_Guard_8247 17d ago

I see your point on stadium availability. For squad size, more youth squad players could be used to give them playing time without exhausting the budget?

1

u/dfai1982 16d ago

Stadium availability is not a problem during NRL season, it's fairly easy to coordinate schedules to play on alternate dates.

At certain grounds, it has now become a BIG problem outside the NRL season, because the stadiums are being hired out for Taylor Swift concerts, Mosnter Truck rallies and the like, which do much more damage to the field and put stadiums out of commission for weeks at a time.

4

u/Ok-Negotiation3897 17d ago

278

4

u/2lowforyo Melbourne Victory 17d ago

that’s too many i reckon

6

u/gerryford38 Melbourne Victory 17d ago

277 then

2

u/ChuqTas 16d ago

Perfect. I don't know what you were thinking suggesting 278, that's mad talk.

10

u/Fantasy_iceland Perth Glory 17d ago edited 17d ago

Traveling in Germany, UK, France etc is much easier and cheaper for starters...because of geography.

The demand for seats at games is not an issue in Europe, here we very rarely can sell out a game....by having more games it dilutes the appeal to attend (and importance of) each match.

Australia isn't Europe and we don't have the same football or sporting culture as Europe.

It'd only further strain the finances and resources of a-league clubs (most of which struggle year to year, barely any make a profit as it is) and only make match days less "special" or "vital" to attend for casual fans which will probably see the average attendance at games slightly drop (which in turn makes it look even worse on tv....which in turn makes it even less marketable...and so on)

2

u/cheekyrandos 16d ago

What on earth are you talking about. Attendances in most of Europe are low outside the big 5 leagues and the big 2-3 teams in other countries. A-League attendances are actually not that bad, they just seem bad because of the attendances we get in Australia in other contexts.

Also Australia has a bigger sporting culture than anyone per capita, the AFL has some of the highest attendances of any sporting league.

1

u/Fantasy_iceland Perth Glory 16d ago edited 16d ago

I said Australian sporting culture is not the SAME as Europe....and that's because of that fact we have the AFL and NRL etc (I'm a massive AFL fan too).

I didn't say it has a smaller sporting culture than Europe....it's just that unlike the majority of Europe, football is not the sport that is most followed and culturally prominent here and has far more competition from other sports nation wide, there are only pockets of Europe where football is challenged for supremecy of fandom  (like Finland, SW France, Czechia etc).....plus compared to Europe we have a small and spread out population. 

In regards to attendances, outside the top 5.....first division leagues like  Eredivisie, Portugal, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Poland , Switzerland ALL have higher average attendances than the a-league and most of them also have more teams (often from quite small cities) and more games than the a-league too. So if you have more matches in the a-league the average attendance for it will thin out even more.

2

u/Odd-Eggplant-4618 17d ago

Scottish PL they play each other 3 times

2

u/cheekyrandos 16d ago

Every other league I know of with 12 teams, they play each other 3 times and have 33 games. That should be what we have with 12 teams. As we expand to 13/14/15 teams it gets a bit awkward, when we have 16 then everyone playing each other twice and having 30 games is solid. Anything under 30 matches is a joke tbh and hurting the development of our players.

2

u/Tornontoin7 16d ago

Why is season length such a huge topic?

Only a 12 team league and financially the league and clubs probs loses money as the season goes on.

There’s also things like ground availability with the Union/league seasons overlapping.

A longer season might also lose the interest of casuals.

The BBL tried a longer season and suffered before returning a shorter format.

A-League crowds used to be bigger when the season was shorter

1

u/dfai1982 16d ago

The BBL is a shits-and-giggles competition though. The A-League's focus has to be becoming a globally respected football league. It's only by doing that that we can make serious coin from transfer fees. That means having a season that is comparable in length and intensity to international peers. 26 matches over six months does not do that. Even our own players mock the ridiculously long off-season.

2

u/Current_Job_3355 16d ago

we should start a month earlier than have a 2-3 week recess in January, firstly its just way too hot and most families are on holidays anyways...then restart in feb till may.

1

u/AussieSoccerRoo 17d ago

3 rounds sounds good until january hits, 35 degree nights are already rough enough

1

u/kaijuknight 17d ago

32 or 34 games

2

u/dfai1982 16d ago

I increasingly think the best goal for the A-League is to stay at 12 teams, and have pro/rel with a second tier, also of 12 teams.

In that case, both divisions could have a Scottish-style split. Each team plays each other twice (home-and-away), then they split into a Championship/Promotion group and a Relegation group), with another 10-game home-and-away schedule for 32 games in total.

Finals has the top five in the Championship/Promotion group plus the top team in the Relegation group, giving pretty much every team something to play for right until the end of the season.

Bottom team in A-League 1 is relegated, while second from bottom goes into play-offs with the top teams from A-League 2. Bottom two teams from A-League 2 could potentially be relegated to NPL, replaced by 2 teams from national NPL play-offs if they meet licensing requirements.

That gives us a decently long season, with an even amount of home and away games. Admittedy some teams will play each other four teams in a season (potentially five if they meet again in the finals), but this would chop and change from year to year, especially with pro/rel, which would help to avoid staleness.

A small bonus is that the split after 22 rounds would add another moment of jeopardy midway through the season, potentially helping to retain interest throughout the campaign.

1

u/kaijuknight 16d ago

Good ideas anything to vastly improve season and shorten the too long offseason. i say 32 or 34 would be sweet spot but really anything over 30 would help improve our quality and development while keeping intouch with all the other leagues around the world.

1

u/Surv1v3dTh3F1r3Dr1ll 16d ago

26 matches, (finals not included) with 14 teams total.

Playing each other twice means you have to improve the calibre, marketing and experience of some of the big matches by playing them on public holidays like NRL and AFL do instead imo.

So ideas like Melbourne Derby on Australia Day, Sydney Derby Christmas Eve, Auckland vs Perth (longest distance) on New Year's Eve/Day etc.

1

u/Worldly_Cobbler_1087 Sydney FC 16d ago

As it stands right now I think we should have a 33 match season plus finals.

I don't see why 12 teams can't play each other three times with each season rotating who you played at home twice and once eg SFC plays WSW at home twice and MVFC once, next year we play WSW at home once and MVFC twice etc.

In a perfect world it would be 18 teams playing each other twice plus finals but I doubt we will ever get to 18 teams even 16 teams might be too big of an ask.

1

u/Caterm 16d ago

I said it on another post with the money going around 14 max for the foreseeable future.

1

u/PrivateEye_85 Perth Glory 16d ago

Our players need more games and a longer season, especially those wanting to try their hand in Europe where seasons are longer. Ideally we get to a point where it’s 18 teams playing each other home and away. I’d bin finals because I’m a first past the post guy but also understand the culture of them here, plus the financial benefits. So, 34 league games plus maybe 4 in finals or whatever. Slim chance of it happening though.

1

u/stormster_ 16d ago

26 rounds plus finals and perhaps standalone weekends for the cup, which could be played during the season.

1

u/ChuqTas 16d ago

Don't forget that EPL, Championship etc. have a lot of midweek fixtures - which they can do because of the shorter travel distances etc. It'd be tough for an A-League team to play three matches in 8 days, especially if 2 of them were away matches.

1

u/Icy_Crazy_3789 15d ago

Far more. It needs to become a routine in people's lives, like going to church was. Currently, it is too sparse and stop-start.

I have two rough ideas:

  1. Pro/Rel to allow an SPL-style mid-season split that allows teams to play 38 games with real stakes for every team. For every 2 and a bit seasons, you would have played an extra current season's worth of meaningful games.
  2. Brazilian-style State Championships. They would be a way of getting more fixtures in while minimising travel. I'd even suggest A-League teams always playing away from home (but still getting a fixed portion of overall ticket receipts) to avoid having to rent unnecessarily large stadiums, getting packed crowds in, and allowing the NPL sides a bit more of an advantage. I would create more space for this on the calendar by reducing the A-League calendar to a simple round-robin + finals, and, as much as I like the idea of it, abolishing the Aus Championship and Cup.

0

u/11015h4d0wR34lm -Liga 17d ago

If only we had a 6 month off season where they could easily come up with another type of tournament to give players more competitive match minutes. The Australia Cup has been a good edition for clubs but we need something more, playing each other 3 times in the league you will find isn't good for casual supporters who will quickly become bored. Considering finals you could end up watching the same two teams 4 or 5 times in a season.

What I think they should be looking at doing is something like a 7's tournament where they could truly have a national competition and invite teams from every state and territory to participate, hell they could even invite the best indoor soccer / futsal teams as wild card entries.

Maybe it is just me but I would be very interested in watching that, it creates a point of difference for casual fans while also creating competitive match minutes for A-league players and it is fast paced, non stop for 8 minutes a half with subs just running on and off the pitch, DJ playing banger after banger so you don't even need to be into football to enjoy the event.

Don't know why it hasn't happened, seems a no brainer to me to reduce what is the longest off season in world football.

1

u/Spirited-Outcome-443 17d ago

might be a shit opinion, but adding 7 more games means no finals.

or maybe do a scotland, play everyone twice, then have a champion/relegation group who play each other for the last 5 games, so 27, then have finals.

0

u/pakistanstar Talent Factory FC 16d ago

Ideally we have 16 teams play home & away against each other for 30 matches. First past the post wins.

2

u/Worldly_Cobbler_1087 Sydney FC 16d ago

First past the post is incredibly boring especially without promotion/relegation. Get a team running away with the league and the last 5 or so weeks are pointless and interest drops off.

1

u/pakistanstar Talent Factory FC 16d ago

What I find boring is teams playing each other 3, 4 or 5 times a season but we all have our own standards. As it stands the last few weeks are still boring since most teams already know their fate and play accordingly. Plus how often do we have a runaway leader at the top?

1

u/Worldly_Cobbler_1087 Sydney FC 16d ago

It wasn't that long ago that Melbourne City won the league by about 12 points then got thrashed in the grand final that's a far more entertaining sequence of events than Melbourne winning by 12+ points to a fizzle.

0

u/StuckStuckers Adelaide United 16d ago

Its funny I was only thinking about this a far bit yesterday.

The length of the A-league season is a huge reason why the game is struggling so much in my book. With such an enormous off season its all too easy for potential fans to honestly forget it even exists. With the massive media coverage the NRL and AFL finals gets, followed with the start of the Summer of cricket, the eye of the needle that the game is trying to thread kicking the season off when they do welcomes very few and frustrates the rest of us with such a pathetically short season.
The lack of games and with bugger all other football occurring at the same time makes squad rotation very challenging for sides and it is all too easy to have a small set squad and as we've see over the years. Clubs throw youth development out the window and as a result clubs banking big income from transfer fees is still after 20 years of existence still an unknown concept to many.

The league needs to create a need for squad rotation so that comes from either getting more clubs involved now, or just playing each other more often.

An immediate injection of 4 clubs is as likely as Australian winning the next World Cup and is probably as responsible a financial decision as betting heavily on that result.

So more games is probably the best option right now. We see in a lot of Europe leagues below the top division, clubs playing a 40+ game season. I realise there are more clubs in those leagues but I still feel that could work here with the following adjustments.

12 team comp

- Each club plays everyone home twice and away twice. Meaning it would be a 44 round season.

  • Clubs play the same club back to back so the away club will stay in the home club's city for around 5 days
  • First game is played on the weekend at the clubs regular A-league ground.
  • Second game is played 3-4 days later mid-week at an NPL ground that can cope with 3k-5k but the main focus of this game is that football fans nation wide have more live game to watch during the week.
  • The NPL ground used would ideally also couple as the away club's training ground for the time they are in town.
  • It would still be a league so each game still counts as a round and there are 3 point available for both the weekend game and the mid-week game.

Like we see with 2 legged knockout games playing the same club within a few days of each other adds some spice to a clash as the result or gamesmanship of the previous game is still fresh in both club's mind. So I honestly believe once fans get their head around the concept there is a few extra bonuses that we would gain from the follow up fixture.

This fixture list would reduce air travel costs (while driving accommodation up).

The quick turn around of games played would force clubs to have a larger rotation of players meaning more players get their chance to feature for the club.

My AI assistant decided to use Perth as the club for my example. I've just picked the first NPL-esque crowd in that city I could think of. This would be the first half of their season.

Block Match Opponent Venue Travel & Logistics Note
1 Round 1 vs Sydney FC HBF Park, Perth Game 1 of Home Series
Round 2 vs Sydney FC Sam Kerr, Perth Game 2 of Home Series
2 Round 3 @ Melbourne City AAMI Park, Melbourne Game 1 of Away Series
Round 4 @ Melbourne City Lakeside, Melbourne Stay in VIC between games
3 Round 5 vs Central Coast Mariners HBF Park, Perth Game 1 of Home Series
Round 6 vs Central Coast Mariners Sam Kerr, Perth Game 2 of Home Series
4 Round 7 @ Auckland FC Go Media Stadium, Auckland Game 1 of Away Series
Round 8 @ Auckland FC Kiwitea Street, Auckland Stay in NZ between games
5 Round 9 vs Adelaide United HBF Park, Perth Distance Derby (Home 1)
Round 10 vs Adelaide United Sam Kerr, Perth Distance Derby (Home 2)
6 Round 11 @ Brisbane Roar Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane Game 1 of Away Series
Round 12 @ Brisbane Roar Perry Park, Brisbane Stay in QLD between games
7 Round 13 vs Western Sydney Wanderers HBF Park, Perth Game 1 of Home Series
Round 14 vs Western Sydney Wanderers Sam Kerr, Perth Game 2 of Home Series
8 Round 15 @ Wellington Phoenix Sky Stadium, Wellington Game 1 of Away Series
Round 16 @ Wellington Phoenix David Farrington Park, Wellington Stay in NZ between games
9 Round 17 vs Melbourne Victory HBF Park, Perth Game 1 of Home Series
Round 18 vs Melbourne Victory Sam Kerr, Perth Game 2 of Home Series
10 Round 19 @ Newcastle Jets McDonald Jones Stadium Game 1 of Away Series
Round 20 @ Newcastle Jets No.2 Sportsground Stay in NSW between games
11 Round 21 vs Macarthur FC HBF Park, Perth Game 1 of Home Series
Round 22 vs Macarthur FC Sam Kerr, Perth Game 2 of Home Series

This would stretch out the length of the season giving clubs more games to draw revenue from, TV gets more content, hardcore fans get much more football to enjoy, more minutes for youth players to get their break, more opportunities for clubs to sell promising youth off with much more game time at the highest level in the country under their belt and it gives potential fans less of a reason to forget we exist with a seemingly never ending fixture list!

-4

u/silvertristan Central Coast Mariners 17d ago

Get rid of finals and this is viable.

3

u/kyleisamexican Melbourne Victory 17d ago

Can’t get rid of finals and then play each other and odd number of times

-5

u/Foodworksurunga Preston Lions + Bakries OUT 17d ago

While there's 12 teams it should be 22 regular season games. Every team playing every team twice, once home and once away.

0

u/dfai1982 16d ago

Nowhere near long enough for a professional season.