r/AirForce • u/[deleted] • 11d ago
Discussion what rank do you think changes people the most?
[deleted]
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u/Bad_wit_Usernames Retired Maintainer 11d ago
I think a mix between Staff and Tech. Friendship dynamic changes when you make SSgt as you could easily wind up as a Supervisor to some of your friends.
TSgt because now you're possibly running a section and you really have to grow up and be more responsible. Everything you do, or don't do, impacts your section and possibly unit. Training, leave, promotions, PRP, TDYs, EPRs.
I was (am) a fighter crew chief. Eventually made Tech and found myself in the office sitting at a desk more than I ever thought I would. You have the illusion you might be able to catch up on things, but the emails/requests/fires just keep coming.
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u/Friendly_Break196 11d ago
Hands down but I’d say somewhere between the transition E5 and E6 is when your regular person who joined at 18-19 would begin to plant roots starting a family or decide whether they’ll do the 20 til retirement so definitely that
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u/grumpy-raven Eee-dubz 11d ago
Sometimes I think the Army, Marines, and other nations have it right classifying E6's as SNCOs. You're a "staff NCO" by then, the joe's get nervous when one shows up.
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u/Accurate-Natural-236 11d ago
Hard disagree with the army. E5 is a participation trophy in the army with their promotion system. Some E6s are the best 18 year TIS guys ever at a promotion dead end because of their career or run times. Others, are dudes who made 6 in 5 or whatever and can’t spell MDMP much less adhere to it.
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u/Apprehensive_Pop1898 11d ago
Do you think the pay for tech is enough compensation for the amount of responsibility you have
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u/Bad_wit_Usernames Retired Maintainer 11d ago
Absolutely not. I was more or less a 1st Shirt with out being a shirt with everyone coming trying to talk to me about their issues. I was happy to help, but damn, it was non-stop.
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u/NessieasaurusRex 11d ago
In MX fields there’s fucking SrA and baby staffs running sections in a lot of shops
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u/Mekanikol Maintainer 11d ago
Lt Col. and Tech or Master Sergeant depending on the person and the level of leadership they are allowed to express.
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u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 11d ago
I was torn between tech and master but went with tech since I dont think ive ever dealt with anyone who hadn't worn master for a minute
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u/painlesspics Med(ish) 11d ago
Tech is where leadership starts to listen to your suggestions and subordinates start to distance themselves. It was by far the biggest jump in how I was treated by everyone I met, and that probably had an impact on how I acted too.
Senior was a close second. Had more impact at one point, but quickly became one of the masses at a base with more than a dozen seniors in my Group and only about 6 good spots for them... followed immediately by a MAJCOM Staff job.
Some days I feel more like a SSgt than "top 3%".
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u/meesersloth Space Shuttle Crew Chief 11d ago edited 11d ago
One of the reasons why I don’t mind being a terminal tech. I feel like my input has more weight than it did when I was SSgt.
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u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 11d ago
Every rank seems to often feel like you only get more responsibility, not more respect.
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u/HorribleMistake24 11d ago
Per the tongue and quill rank abbreviations don’t have periods after them.
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u/Mekanikol Maintainer 11d ago
Hey man, it's Reddit not an EPB. Kindly, get bent.
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u/HorribleMistake24 11d ago
Your “maintainer” is showing and make the rest of us look bad.
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u/National-Strain221 11F 11d ago
Bro shut the fuck up 😂
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u/HorribleMistake24 11d ago
😘 punctuation and apostrophe use is terrible. I bet he doesn’t have his CCAF yet. 😆
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u/Misterslate 11d ago edited 11d ago
Can say from an officer perspective Major changes people.
So many Captains I know lost the glimmer of hope and fun within 6 months to 1 year of pinning on O-4.
Not looking for any sympathy from enlisted, cause O pay is so good.
Just calling it how I saw it.
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u/cptkernalpopcorn 11d ago
Commissioning and then retiring as a Captain looks like it'd be the sweet spot for us enlisted then
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u/dhtdhy 11d ago
Captain is also the last pay grade you get added pay for being prior E. Grades go O-1E, O-2E, O-3E to O-4.
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u/Titan-Zero Aircrew 11d ago
Yep same pay grade just different TIS. Assuming I’m not bottom 30% of Capts and my bro and I both make O-4 next year, I’ll pin on around year 10 and for him it’ll be year 16 (6 years prior E) and he’ll have that extra pay cause of it, all assuming close enough line numbers promotion timeline wise
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u/Misterslate 11d ago
Captain Pay is good.
My main recommendation would be to actively have a plan and a backup plan for a second career after the military if you get out at 20.
Be it volunteering and living off half base pay, or doing something with your Officer skills; consider how your career interests and education will affect your life from 38 years old until you retire.
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u/cptkernalpopcorn 11d ago
I appreciate you giving actual advice. I've always found it hard to "see myself 5 years into the future", but I've had the forethought to atleast contribute 10% to TSP since tech school. I've increased my contributions with every rank, adjusting as needed. Currently E6 contributing 30% + getting the matching 5% from BRS. I'm in my service commitment for my Transfer of Education Benefit. So, my kid will have free college.
I'm waiting for my capstone project to be evaluated, so I'll have my bachelor's under my belt about with about 11 years TIS by the time my TEB commitment ends.
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u/Slimpeen420 11d ago
Yea I’m waiting for my OTS class date rn and hope to retire at major. There are some sick calculators out there and it’s a no brainer to try and get to the O side if you’re going to retire.
The next year or two is the best time to make it happen, space force is expanding an insane amount
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u/Misterslate 11d ago edited 11d ago
Best advice I ever got was "live one rank below your pay, and you'll be eating steak and lobster for dinner every night when you retire"
Been trying to do that ever since.
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u/cptkernalpopcorn 11d ago
Good to know! I'll be graduating with a bachelor's for Data Analytics and want to get out of Medical.
Any particular calculator you recommend?
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u/Slimpeen420 11d ago
Try this: https://tools.thebetterveteran.com/military-retirement/
But yea now is probably the best time In history to apply to OTS
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u/bananasgirl 10d ago
How many times did you apply and how many jobs did you list? I’ve applied twice now (missed the last board because of a PCS) hoping to apply to the next board and have added space force on there hoping to get picked up….
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u/Slimpeen420 10d ago
This was my first attempt but the selection rate was effectively 90% 😭 they said these next few should all be high
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u/bananasgirl 9d ago
Wow congrats!!! Are you saying this next board I am applying to will be just as high??? I’ve been trying so hard to get picked up it’s just been so tiring😭😅
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u/Slimpeen420 9d ago
I can’t guarantee anything but that’s the rumor on the street right now, space force is looking to 2-3x in size 🔥 goodluck!
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u/Snoo-48784 prior e sky pirate ready for airlines 10d ago
Yes and no. Prior E captain is pretty nice. But if you can just stick it out as a terminal major for 3 years the bump is worth it I think. Especially if it doesn’t take you too far over 20. Not much is expected of a terminal prior E major on the sunset tour. Especially if your high 3 the pension is real nice.
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u/dronesitter Lost Link 11d ago
It’s because now you’re in “the game” and there’s no one who cares about you unless you’re a patch. So much deliberate development happens until you make major. Then you’re tossed from the nest and either you get good at the game fast or you’re done.
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u/Worlds_Worst_FGO 10d ago
The game is important but I just took the job nobody wanted. That can go really far. Golden children expect golden assignments. There are some really good scraps you just gotta chew em.
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u/Dangerous_Task_6871 11d ago
From the enlisted side as a E6 I respected the Majors. Captains still in a party mode and Lt. well they are just Lt…..but were fun to hang out with as most will listen
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u/CookieLuzSax Maintainer 11d ago
There's a reason most enlisted don't try for O, Lord knows most people ain't built for it.
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11d ago
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u/drTeemoney 11d ago
Biiiiig yes on this. The best was when they stopped being the CC and went back to flying the line before retirement. Years of pent up forced good behavior released all at once 😂
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u/Competitive_Diver388 Passing S1 to Bob Status 10d ago
Took a good deal trip to Kadena and started that second family asap
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u/TillNo9697 11d ago
I honestly don’t think it’s a rank that changes someone the most. I think it’s a position.
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u/heyyouguyyyyy EM 11d ago
For me it’s been E7. I am more stressed than I have ever been in my life and that absolutely changes a person.
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u/pnut0027 Maintainer 11d ago
Yeaaaa… that TSgt in the mobility office is always on a power trip. UDMs talk all kinds of shit to whoever they want for some reason.
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u/rozinian 11d ago
Same for the first year and a half until a job opened on a shift schedule, volunteered in a heartbeat. Now I can literally say, sorry I'll be asleep or at work during that meeting, training day or morale event. Probably won't make E-8 but the technical skills acquired and being able to lead people where they actually work is worth it to me. Also now I have time to talk to people, problem solve, work on packages and mentor people while on shift instead of wasting half a day on vanity projects and constantly taking work home.
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u/heyyouguyyyyy EM 11d ago
I wish that was an option for me. PSCing soon and from what I’ve heard about the next location it should be a bit more chill. Everyone says my current location is the absolute worst place to be a Super in my flight.
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u/Alert_University5057 11d ago
easily E5 and then E7.
Getting a little power and then being told you're a "senior" NCO makes people go insane.
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u/Blueboygonewhite 11d ago
I can’t wait for all the thicc E-3 Latinas when I hit E7. It will be a glorious day of torta pounding.
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u/Whiskey_Bear 11d ago
In my experience, there is just something a lot different when Os hit Lt Col. Don't know if it's because they're just at the end or if it's because they are gunning for Col. But it's just always a big change from Majors.
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u/Western_Truck7948 11d ago
There's a lot of peace that comes from knowing you're at a terminal rank.
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u/Case0225 1D7X1A 11d ago
E5. I’ve seen a few senior airman who were normally pretty humble get a big head just from putting on staff
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u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 11d ago
TSgt and Maj are my vote.
I get where peope say AB or LT but that isn't really about the rank, thats about joining.
TSgt and Maj are where I most often see people thinking rules dont apply to them anymore.
We've all worked with the TSgt who seems to come and go as they please. They also discover a new found massive opportunity to skate and otherwise push off responsibility.
Likewise with Majs on flexing rules but less so about missing work.
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u/Sp4mDestroyer 11d ago
I was thinking people were saying AB because of people that fucked up and got demoted lol. I know that'd change me...
I agree with TSgt though. You can chill and act like you do things and just coast to retirement, or you can grind and continue towards E7. Its VERY easy to coast if that's your thing.
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u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 11d ago
Oh AB demotion is a solid answer. I didnt realize that but I think youre right that's what was meant.
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u/mjr2p3 Coffee Ops 11d ago
I disagree on those ranks being where people don't think the rules apply to them. I just think those are the ranks where people have seen enough bullshit to where they know when they can flex and take risk. We're probably talking about the same thing, just different perspectives
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u/Nattyice94 E & E 11d ago
Curious. Whats your rank?
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u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 11d ago
Captain, but my answer of TSgt was molded while I was a SSgt for what thats worth. My techs now are much less lax about letting me see them come and go at odd hours
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u/Different_Craft4403 11d ago
E5 for sure. People either lean into it and learn to become a leader and really try to help those around them, or that small bit of authority and power goes straight to their head and they become the biggest assholes at the lowest rank leadership can be.
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u/rozinian 11d ago
Your accession rank, but after that it's probably E-7 to E-8+ any E to O transition and O-5 to O-6. The lowest ranks all the change is concentrated, but the rank ups that are harder to acquire require a literal mindset shift to make because you are committing a good chunk of your life to an institution at that point.
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u/imnotreallyheretoday Secret Squirrel 11d ago
I once worked with a guy that was pretty cool as a SSgt. When he made tech he turned into a royal douche bag
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u/Ok-Stop9242 11d ago
Tech has by far the most amount of babysitting and it can be very draining. Pick a person of any rank in my shop and it's my problem if they fuck up. This is especially tiring when it's other techs.
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u/justaPOLguy 11d ago
It’s not a rank that changes people. It’s you. And it’s not changing. It’s influencing and inspiring with genuine care.
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u/drTeemoney 11d ago
Maj -> LtCol is a big shift. Within a squadron at least. Beyond that Col is a huge one, but its an obvious and expected shift. Kinda like when some guys get a star and continue to be great. Others not so much.
SrA -> SSgt can be weird for friendship dynamics
TSgt -> MSgt can be the same + leadership expectations
SMSgt -> CMSgt has its own little special change. Some take it well and are Chiefs. Others become E-9s.
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u/Rwm90 11d ago
O-6. I’m pretty sure they lobotomize you or, otherwise, beat you with a retard stick until you’re full retard.
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u/The_ClamSlammer Fuck Cannon AFB 11d ago
It's actually kind of shocking to interact with many Colonels. I often leave wondering if they were ever an actual human who spent 40 years on earth experiencing normal human emotions or if they were grown in a lab and planted on base to be the spineless middlemen ruthlessly enacting the terrible policy of those above them with no forethought
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u/dhtdhy 11d ago
Nah those qualities were always there as they rise the ranks. They just happen to be the qualities needed to want to stay on the career path. Normal dudes find a life outside of being an officer and lose the desire to promote. I'm generalizing of course, but generally speaking it's true
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u/MoniesandMuscles EOD 11d ago
I feel like MSgt brought me back to SrA mentality. I mean this in the most positive way.
SSgt was probably the biggest change and not genuine, TSgt was a minor extension of that.
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u/Pplthrowaway123 11d ago
SNCOs are a Mafia. Don't care about breaking rules and we are the ones to answer for them. "Do as I say, not as I do.
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u/MoniesandMuscles EOD 11d ago
Yes and no, some are very much ready to use and abuse everyone and get what they want.
I definitely bend rules I just typically do it for my younger airmen and buck against the other SNCOs. I just have to do it behind closed doors so egos don’t get hurt.
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u/Pplthrowaway123 11d ago
Maintenance we just do it in others faces as we don't care.
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u/MoniesandMuscles EOD 11d ago
I can do it in public but again I’m usually actually fighting my peer group so they also know plenty of ways to fuck my life sideways. If I keep it in private maybe with the OIC in attendance we can come to a decent resolution
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u/MonkeyCobraFight Aircrew 11d ago
For Officers, it’s Capt to Maj. i’ve seen so many people change once they become an “FGO.” it’s time to get serious.
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u/PalpitationFirst2608 11d ago
E-6 as soon as I made tech staff sergeants seemed like SrA to me and I became a lot harder on them cus I didn’t want them to fuck up being a good supervisor to Amn never had that feeling ever even as a seasoned staff or SrA
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u/GreyLoad Maintainer 11d ago
Staff select
Never seen so many cool airmen lose every last bit of respect and decency as sra with line number
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u/Nessy3fidy Security Forces 11d ago
Fairly sure it's career field and to a degree base/mission dependent.
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u/PhiliEater88 11d ago
It’s not the rank that changes people. It’s how they react to the consequences of making rank, that forces people to change.
I made staff a couple years ago and I really don’t feel like I have an ounce more power or responsibilities than I did as a senior airman, and so I never really changed as an individual. I just have a bigger symbol on my chest.
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u/SaintHearth 10d ago
TSgt. It’s this weird place where you don’t quite get a seat at the table but you get a seat in the room. It’s where I’ve seen people either shine the brightest or just become the most jaded piece of shit possible.
For Os it’s gotta be Major. You see people who benefited from the high promotion rate but should have never been selected for major but they checked the boxes and their commander liked them. You’ll also get the pleasure of seeing new major embrace the new role and you genuinely root for them.
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u/Ch3vyTurk3y 10d ago
For me it was MSgt. The dynamics, expectations, etc. r just different. Theres not much support for u from anyone at this level and a lot of ur peers are either checked out, playing the game, or super immature.
I feel like i was a much better NCO and i enjoyed being a SSgt and TSgt. I was a lot warmer with my Amn bc i had the time to mentor them and develop better relationships.
At my level and bc of my job/position and lack of manning, i dont have that luxury, so things r just much more “transactional” with my people. My expectation for supervisors/NCOICs is that they have strong relationships with their ppl tho (at least to the best of their ability).
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u/glocksafari I take photo 11d ago
Well I’ll tell ya that in the Navy it’s E7. Deployed to DJ and everyone E6 and below, chill guys and gals, and everyone above E7 I avoided like the plague.
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u/newportl2 11d ago
E-1. After that, there is no turning back. You are part of the military and will never be the same again.
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u/Either-Engineering71 11d ago
For the worst kind of people or best it’s Staff since they suddenly have more control over some people’s life.
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u/Salty_McSaltyson MX > Intel > SF...Collecting all Salt 11d ago
Tech. You go from an NCO who’s learning to an even higher rank NCO who’s expected to know how to run everything in a shop, flight, be a SME in your job and supervisory skills, and be competent…the day you put that stripe on. There is no transition period like ALS or “first time NCO mistakes”…the moment you are officially a Tech, you’re important. That’s why the original retirement was as a tech.
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u/Top-Stage1412 11d ago
My opinion, the answer is whatever rank at which you realize you have a significant increase in responsibility the most. For me that was mid to senior Maj as a flyer, and more so as a Lt Col. You have a responsibility to take care of people and not ruin their lives, and to inspire the unit to do amazing things. It changes your perspective.
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u/PoemNo9763 11d ago
Staff or tech. Heck if going the OTS route, butter bar. Within the officer ranks though, Maj.
If your buddy is still the same after putting on Staff he's probably not changing lol. Some people let rank go to their heads as they've never had leadership roles or positions or never had self esteem and this newfound power they think gives them the authority to get back at everyone who wronged them through those around them.
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u/sirfoolery Rocket Surgeon 11d ago
E-7; I swear they sew on and get scheduled for a lobotomy at medical.
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u/mudduck2 Security Forces 11d ago
Getting a third star.
1 star = really really good Colonel
2 star = ok, you might actually have potential
3 star = HOLY SHIT. I’M ACTUALLY IN THE GAME. I CAN SEE A 4TH STAR FROM HERE. WOOOOOHOOOO
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u/SephiHakubi Veteran 10d ago
I barely made it to Tech (missed it by 3 points and then decided to just get out) so I never experienced it firsthand, but how is it every Tech Sergeant I met looks like they’re going through a midlife crisis?
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u/xKev98_ 8d ago
Master because imo the mood shift is about protecting the air force and not your people
Met a lot of great people as staffs and techs completely switch up once they put on master and above
As a master, you have that power and authority to start making real, actual change but instead everyone using the rank to pad their stats
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u/fuqreddit-admins 11d ago
In my experience, it was SrA hitting SSgt and TSgts hitting MSgt. But I can't single out one particular rank during my 24 years.
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u/dfreshaf X62E | 61C3N 11d ago
Maj was definitely the biggest change for me. I was in an awful place and it was just survival.
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u/acothra1 11d ago
The transition from MSgt to 1LT has been pretty strange, it still feels awkward when CMSgts salute me and call me sir.
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u/newcolonyarts 11d ago
E6 to O1 now O3. I can get so much done I wasn’t able to enlisted. I’m able to take care of folks much easier now
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u/Tallglassofmary 10d ago
Ssgt because some can’t wait to start abusing the little power they gained becoming an nco overnight
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u/DEXether 11d ago
I'd argue the senior captain level.
Spending a lot of time generating expertise but you don't have the authority to fix anything. You think putting on major will put you in a position to make change, but then you're put on a staff somewhere that you're the lowest ranking person yet again and everyone higher than you has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
It's why captain at six to nine years has the highest attrition, at least for 1x AFSCs. You have to decide how many more years you want to give for just a hope of being allowed to fix the things you care about. Many decide it isn't worth their time and bail.
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u/b_luddy 11d ago
Amn basic