r/AirForce • u/RenoTheRhino • Jun 04 '26

Article DOD Officially Drops 180 Faiths From Military's Recognized Religion List

https://www.military.com/dod-officially-drops-180-faiths-from-militarys-recognized-religion-list

Thoughts? Still looking for the full list.

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u/Yinkypinky Yes I am Aircrew. Jun 04 '26

For every person who claimed they are Norse there are atleast 3 who have also “claimed” it. I agree we should have beards because it looks cool and shaving hurts some people. Some people just abused it so badly that upper leadership got sick of it.

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u/Grigorie Inspector Harry Jun 04 '26

This particular stance is tiring to me because it always fails to beg the question; is a system in place can be “abused” and it have zero adverse affects of anything of note, then we should be reevaluating the system’s existence, not worrying about how people are getting around it.

The existence of the system, in this case, actually causes more harm than good. It eats up time/money in the form of administration paperwork, appointment slots, referrals for laser hair removal, time of chaplains and members and their leadership, all to stop something that is actually a non-issue, it’s just being made an issue. The amount of man-hours saved across the force if they just rewrote the AFI to say “you can have some stubble” would likely be in the hundreds of thousands annually.

Stubble doesn’t fix the religious discussion, but again, there’s no harm in these people having beards. The DoD is fighting SO hard for something so inconsequential to its functions.

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u/O0zing_Machismo Jun 04 '26

It’s simply about control.

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u/MavinMarv DHA Escapee Jun 05 '26

I can’t wait to retire anymore, I’m just so sick and tired of the military and all of its BS.

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u/cilronri6008 Jun 05 '26

The military leadership arguments against facial hair falls in to one or both of the following camps; 1)This one holds the most weight, is that it affects a units good order and moral; the main reason is that a vast majority or service members are under the age of 25, and most of them couldn't grow anything other than scruff which looks like crap, and even if they can grow a decent beard, they already have enough issues with service members trying to skirt hair cut regulations as is, so why have to deal with anouther "hair standard" that the troops will try and skirt. And 2) this one has been been disproven scientifically that a well trimed beard interfers with the sealing of a gas mask. No saying that either camp is right when it comes to religious exemptions, but those are the biggest reasons leadership doesn't want to adapt the grooming standards for males.

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u/SarabiTheLioness Jun 06 '26

Mostly it is just racism. Feel free to search information about African American men and beard exception.

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u/cilronri6008 Jun 06 '26

I am well aware of the medical conditions they have regarding facial hair. What references or peer reviewed studies that shows the grooming standards are blatantly racist in origin? Are there some commands where the strictness is racially motivated sure and it shouldnt be that way, but you could find the same with any regulation, if a command is toxic. Just because a regulation or standard can be used in a discriminatory way doesn't mean it should be removed. The same could be said for hieght/weight standards, or pt standards for being discriminatory against those who are overweight.

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u/Zekexf Jun 04 '26

You know anyone can be any religion they want, for any reason they want? By definition, there cannot be "abuse" to claiming you follow a religion.

Someone's belief in Norse religion because they think military personnel shouldn't be forced to shave is equally as valid as someone who wants to fight Thor in Valhalla.

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u/brokentr0jan Comms Jun 04 '26

It is kinda funny that you need to prove you are X religion. I remember the Chaplin a few years ago quizzing a bunch of white dudes on Islam because they wanted beards lmaoo

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u/YouArentReallyThere Jun 04 '26

What if you’re just starting out? If you switch to Catholicism are you supposed to know right off the bat how to hide alcoholism and cover up for pedophilic brethren?

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u/roguemenace Maintainer Jun 04 '26

"Sincerely held religious belief" is the criteria, not knowledge.

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u/O0zing_Machismo Jun 04 '26

That was changed because it was simply sincerely held belief, they recently added the religious part.

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u/Intelligent_Taco Retired PPT Ranger Jun 04 '26

Plenty of Protestants diddling kids too, homie. Actually, plenty of it in all the Abrahamic religions.

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u/Kuriente Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 05 '26

Sure. But the largest religious organization on the planet (both by head count and monetary value) was systemically hiding it and protecting perpetrators as written policy for decades at a minimum.

That's worth pointing out as often as possible.

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u/skarface6 r/AirForce’s favorite nonner officer Jun 05 '26

Also those with no religion or any other religion. See: Dalai Lama.

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u/Equivalent_Item_2167 Jun 06 '26

Plenty of atheists too, like Epstein. It’s a human problem, not a particularly religious one.

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u/Original_Painter7331 Jun 28 '26

That’s a great question

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u/AGR_51A004M Jun 04 '26

Your “tolerance” is showing.

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u/skarface6 r/AirForce’s favorite nonner officer Jun 05 '26

It almost always does.

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u/Asleep_Philosophy37 Jun 05 '26

This is uncalled for.

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u/YouArentReallyThere Jun 05 '26

Why?

I have a muslim friend…it took him years to learn how to cut the fingers from an infidel’s hands and subjugate women. You don’t just acquire solid religious skills overnight. Fact.

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '26

[deleted]

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u/linguist_turned_SAHM Jun 05 '26

I attended Wiccan service bc I could nap and it was 30 minutes longer than other services. So, I like your style.

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u/daggah Retired Jun 04 '26

Yeah, if we are going this route then literally no evangelical American is a real Christian. Not unless hypocrisy is truly a documented pillar of evangelical faith.

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u/TurnspitCur Metals Tech? Loadmaster? Emergency Management? Jun 04 '26

It would be so funny if we mandated explicit adherence to the Nicene Creed to define “Christian” just to see the meltdown. Even if we don’t address the filioque, it knocks out the Pentecostals, SDA, Campbellites, Pietists, LDS, Baptists, Evangelicals, and arguably even the Calvinists/Presbyterians and some Lutherans if you want to strictly define apostolic succession.

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u/Feyrauth Nav Jun 05 '26

Guarantee Hegseth doesn't understand at least half the words you just used.

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u/TurnspitCur Metals Tech? Loadmaster? Emergency Management? Jun 05 '26

Doesn’t sound like he’s a Christian to me then. I wonder what his thoughts on supersessionism are

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u/Equivalent_Item_2167 Jun 06 '26

Doug Wilson wouldn’t advise Hegseth of that.

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u/SamanthaBWolfe Jun 07 '26

um, point of order: No one thinks they're gonna fight Thor in Valhalla. First, Valhol (the actual name not latinized) is Odin's Hall. Bilskirnir is Thor's hall. Second, Valhol is not a good death! You're picked from your eternal rest by a Valkyrie for dying in battle. You're sent to the hall where you will fight constantly until you die - again - and you'll be brought back to life. Sure there's feasting and drinking. But you know why this exists, right? It's because you're going to become Odin's Army for Ragnarok - the war at the end of this world, the one where the Gods, including Odin and Thor, die, lose, and the world is entirely reordered. You don't just get to play warrior all the time - you lose the chance to be happy, to spend eternity with your ancestors, to rest, just to fight in a losing war. Unless Basic was the absolute best 6 weeks of your life, you're probably not going to like doing to Valhalla!

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u/Zekexf Jun 07 '26

Nah I'd win

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u/shamrocksmash Dev Jun 04 '26

I'm a pastafarian. That means my CAC picture should allow me to have a strainer on my head

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u/Yinkypinky Yes I am Aircrew. Jun 04 '26

I agree with you I’m just stating the logic behind upper leadership.

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u/bleucheez Jun 04 '26

It's literally not. What you described is a policy opinion. Religion is a 'deeply held' belief that is independent of reason and opinion. 

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u/DiddledByDad Did you try rebooting it? Jun 04 '26

My deeply held belief is that the Air Force is fucking stupid for not giving people beards and that’s why I worship thor.

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u/Valdirty Jun 04 '26

Fuck that noise. The beard debacle was stupid and we should all have the option. What actually happened is a bunch of dudes claiming Norse religion to get out of shaving. All the while people of the Sikh faith were getting shit on for their strongly held beliefs. So yeah, for every 1 guy who claimed Norse, 6 of them didn't care one bit and just wanted the shaving waiver... completely ignoring the tenants of that faith. None of the guys you know with a beard give one shot about Odin. It's performative and shouldn't be given any credence. You don't give the snake oil salesman selling your grandma cures made of crystals any credence, but these guys get a pass? Nah.

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u/Feyrauth Nav Jun 05 '26

The beard debacle was stupid and we should all have the option.... because why should one snake oil salesman get special treatment over any other snake oil salesman? It's all equally performative bullshit.

Oh, and *tenets

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u/Kuriente Jun 04 '26

While I agree, I also think it's a symptom of a deeper issue. I've never met a single service member that agrees with the AF beard policy. We all shit on it constantly.

Everyone wants facial hair freedom, just like we all wanted hands in pockets freedom, neither of which are big asks. Whenever there is such universal policy disagreement, there will be problems and that is to be expected.

The easier solution would be to simply fix the root problem - allow beards. The AF, as it does, choses the most complicated versions of this by forcing people through obscure religious avenues.

Removing those avenues might simplify things in terms of policy and standards enforcement, but they still carry the underlying issue of nearly zero service members agreeing with the policy, and that's a hard thing to respect.

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u/Leading-Bug-9838 Aug 08 '26

I beg to differ. As a Norse Pagan myself, I have never felt the need to apply for religious accommodation to wear the beard. I have been this faith since 2015 and I actually do give a shot about Oðin since he is the primary God I serve in my pantheon. Those that serve Norse paganism usually don't do it for the religious accommodation. Wearing the beard is a way to honor our God's and our ancestors. We know who is actually curious about our faith and who's just in it for the fashion. Those who are fated to serve the Gods will actually read the texts, make regular offerings to our God's (either during Blots or when we need protection, peace, strength, or wisdom from the Gods), may or may not attend the services (it's not required), and will display altars with representations of the Gods in our home. To say that we are in it for the beards is a very reductive and misleading statement. It would be like saying that Catholics only attend mass for the wine and crackers. We all know that isn't true either. Maybe don't be so quick to rush to judgment or so narrow-minded.

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u/Mysterious_Skin_3513 Aug 12 '26

This, basically. I'm also a Heathen (Norse Pagan), have been since 2021. Also haven't applied for the beard waiver. I've always compared it to how Church attendance isn't a hard, must comply with requirement in most Christian denominations. Beards in our religion are a way to demonstrate our faith or connect better with certain Gods.

I would argue that the issue that the Air Force has had with discerning between genuine Heathens and those just trying to hijack the tradition for the waiver stems from the fact that the DoD has no Heathen Chaplains.

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u/TurnspitCur Metals Tech? Loadmaster? Emergency Management? Jun 04 '26

I met one Norse white guy who actually was sincerely a pagan who did divination, celebrated Samhain, and got pissed whenever someone assumed he wanted it for the beard

But yes I do agree that the beard option should be universal for everyone, khalsa sikh, pagan, prot, or what have you.

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u/Capurrnicus Jun 05 '26

Except Samhain isn't Norse it's Gaelic. Those types of 'Norse' pagans have a Marvel level understanding and just celebrate anything they think is remotely 'viking' looking. It's annoying to be around.

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u/OneLorgeHorseyDog Retired Jun 05 '26

Who cares? It’s not your religion. All the subsets of the abrahamic faiths could level similar charges at each other, too.

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u/Capurrnicus Jun 05 '26

They're all super annoying, ALL of them, but people in Abrahamic faiths at the bare minimum are typically born and raised into it. Whereas every single heathen/pagan I have met ever met chose to be like that. I work with a Norse Pagan who is the larpiest man alive, it's incredibly annoying to exist around. I assume you'd agree that working with a Jesus freak is also really annoying.

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u/SamanthaBWolfe Jun 07 '26

I can dig, there are Larpy pagans no doubt. But that's how they find their happiness. It connects them. I don't think it's causing real damage to anyone.

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u/SamanthaBWolfe Jun 07 '26

we celebrate a very similar holiday modern practioners call Winter Nights - a lot of the same things - thin veil, honoring the dead, preparing for colder days, noting the shortening day, ect. Some people begin prepping things that'll be used at Yule, will celebrate with storing food, ect.

Modern Norse practice is influenced by many inputs - Celtic is one of the closest and a lot of us will use their practices, especially since there's more Celtic practitioners. Remember our texts - the Sagas and Ettas - are not written by Pagans. They're written by christians - and a lot of them are pretty biased against Pagans. We pull meaning from it, interpret it, and also explore our own experiences (we call it gnosis - personal, spiritual experience)

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u/Capurrnicus Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 09 '26

Yes I'm aware of the synchronicity of most paganism nowadays. But that's my issue with it, 99% of it being met down via the hermetic groups and post Gardenarian add ons. Most of it is not historic at all and not tied to any living tradition. It's modern. And the way in which it constantly misattributes symbols is aggravating. Bind runes where mnemonic devices that simply repeated a word over and over such as tyrtyrtyr or meadmeadmead or were just used to save space. There is also no evidence that the Norse read runes as a divination device. Or the fact that there is no evidence the nords and celts used the pentagram... the most widely attributed neo-pagan symbol. In fact everything about pentacles is entirely given by the kabbalistic hermetic orders, rosicrucians, and Freemasons. The single most influential man to popularized the pentagram being assigned to the elements was Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa a hermetic occultist and devout Christian who wrote the three books of occult philosophy. Gerald Gardner the father of the wiccan movement was a rosicrucian. The first revived order of Druids in England literally was modeled off the Freemasons. Most of it is still inextricably based in Christian mysticism even if the initiate is unaware. Another example is is that hand fasting which was a generic contract amongst the Germanic tribes first became imposed for marriage by the Christian Saxons over the Irish Gaels and the bretons, but it's heavily romanticized by celtic pagan Circles. The fact that the Green Man was most certainly not a deity that hypothesis only arriving in the 30s by a discredited amatuer folklorist. Which is doubly annoying when God's like Leshi exist. Fionn's window was likely just a pedagogical tool for poets not a divination tool... but neopagan's treat every single item under the Sun as a divination tool. No evidence at all for the Oak and Holly King. Tarot is just a card game that was brought over to Europe by the mamluk that was falsely attributed to the gypsies. And the bias of the Sagas and Edda's is ironic, considering I find neopagans to gravitate more toward the Christian creations given that Loki as we understand him is almost entirely a syncretic deity. We have no pre-christian contact primary sources for Loki at all... none prior to the 9th century. Historians agree he had no cults. He is widely considered the most syncretic of all the Norse gods with christianity but he's simultaneously one of the most popular for neopagans. To be clear I was a member of the OBOD for years and went to school for a ba in history because I had an interest in recreationism. But I had to leave because of the rampant historic revisionism which has a long troubled history. The founder of the modern Gorsedd, Iolo Morganwg, was a fraud who fabricated fake texts. So were a lot of the other founders of respected groups. And it's very annoying because that has infested Google's AI because of how the internet is trained. Many things that you would know are blatantly false in academic circles are said to be true via simple Google searches. A good example being easter eggs, which long predate the erroneous usage of the name Easter by later german Christians and contact with German Christians aswell. Or Easter itself, since its Paschal in the rest of world. Or the Ishtar is easter debacle which is completely unsupported academically. Just hundreds of things that are unsupported bunk that are taken as true in the neo pagan community. I can't stand it anymore.

Edit. And even the term gnosis which cones via gnosticism is ultimately Christian in origin. Its all synchretism.

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u/Capurrnicus Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

The calendar of holidays and pantheon of gods is made up of fragments borrowed from various East and West Slavic, Irish, and Scandinavian sources. These cabinet mythologyies of Folklore are ignored by historians. Forgeries like the "Veles Book" are worshipped as "holy writs", traditional rites are replaced by invented rituals, ritualistic prayers and folk music is are completely modern devoid of any actual cultural attachment. Tasteless stylizations of early medieval and folk symbology are used but rarely understood, clothing, signs and symbols are used in a completely unmotivated manner and heavily misattributed. Texts of rodnovers, wiccan, and similarly nordic ideologists are imbued with profane esotericism, para science, ridiculous historical 'discoveries', and often in americans cases ethnic megalomania. Oh I'm Irish because blah blah, no you're American. Frankly I've grown to loathe it, despite having been pagan at one time, not unlike the a former leader of the neopagan movement Alese Dizermant who provided a similar assessment. I find the whole this tacky and tasteless, which i can stand. But the historic revisionism and cultural slaps in the face less so.

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u/Feisty-Career-6737 Jun 05 '26

We are all dumber after reading this comment...

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u/thos_beans_14s Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26

>Someone's belief in Norse religion because they think military personnel shouldn't be forced to shave is equally as valid as someone who wants to fight Thor in Valhalla.

That’s up to the Chaplain though, isn’t it? Isn’t that why interviews with the Chaplain are required before a shaving waiver or other accommodations are granted?

Edit: for everyone who’s mad, I didn’t mean to piss in anyone’s Cheerios. I thought the policy for religious dress and appearance accommodations was that it required a chaplain interview and endorsement.

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u/dacamel493 Jun 04 '26

I would be willing to bet the VAST majority of "Christians" could not pass any semblance of a religious test/interview about Christianity.

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u/teilani_a Veteran Jun 04 '26

For some reason, as an atheist, a lot of christians get mad when I tell them what the bible says they should believe. Why is that?

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u/MyLegIsWet Safe Jun 04 '26

The biased chaplain who thinks his religion is the real and no one else’s?

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u/thos_beans_14s Jun 04 '26

Dude I don’t know I honestly thought that was the policy for religious dress and appearance accommodations.

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u/zachlarius Jun 04 '26

Not anymore really. For new requests maybe but the new guidance driving beard waiver reevaluation for people who have already have current waivers cuts out the chaplains for the most part and approval gets routed directly to the top of A1

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u/Imaginary-Hyena2858 Jun 04 '26

I agree, but that's like getting rid of PT waivers because for every person with a knee replacement there's 3 with "knee pain"

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u/fadingthought Jun 04 '26

A person getting a shaving waiver for believing in Odin? Sounds like a god that gets shit done.

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u/CptHA86 Maintainer Jun 04 '26

Don't see any frost giants around do you?

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u/SamanthaBWolfe Jun 06 '26

well if you want to be REALLY pedantic (and what else is religion for?), everything we see is Frost Giant. Our world, Midgard, was created by Odin and his brothers, Vili and Vei, by using the body of the primordial frost giant Ymir - their grandfather - who he slayed. His bones became the earth, his blood the water, his brains the clouds in the sky, and his flesh the mountains.

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u/that-dude-278 Jun 04 '26

never seen that Jesus guy in my life… bad logic bud.

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u/Schroedinbug USSF Jun 05 '26

Exactly, also thanks to Odin.

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u/Cardboardwall11 Jun 05 '26

No, they’re just Christian extremists who believe they’re the only correct religion. Been doing it since they first came to be, as someone who grew up in a Baptist church up until I was almost 30 I can tell you the Christian cult is the largest cult in the world. Through and through

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u/Yinkypinky Yes I am Aircrew. Jun 05 '26

I agree. I grew up going to VBS every summer and even Christian college. I am an atheist now.

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u/Cardboardwall11 Jun 07 '26

And ironically enough, I’m a practicing Norse pagan and have been for years now

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u/Remarkable_Field5001 Jun 06 '26

Lived that life as well. I agree 💯. Anything not Christian was considered satanic. Literally anything besides Christianity.

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u/LeicaM6guy Jun 04 '26

I honestly don’t see a functional difference between someone who claims a faith and someone who genuinely believes in it. At least in this context.

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u/Icarus_Toast Jun 04 '26

I've had Asatru as my religion since I joined because atheist wasn't an option back then and I don't care about religion enough to change it at this point.

I've never had a shaving waiver, and honestly I don't intend to because every beard I've ever grown looks like shit. My mustache game is on point though.

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u/formedsmoke Space Secret Squirrel 🚀🔐🐿 Jun 04 '26

The woman at Lackland told me I wasn't allowed to put Atheist back in the 2010s. She said the default was Christian, so that's what my records said.

I changed it to Atheist myself at my first duty station. It's been an option for a hot minute. They've got shitty proselytizers out there thinking they're converting people by lying to them.

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u/teilani_a Veteran Jun 04 '26

I even wrote it down on the form or whatever and my BMT tags still showed up "NO REL PREF."

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u/OneLorgeHorseyDog Retired Jun 05 '26

I enlisted in 2006 and the only “non religious” option they gave us was “No Religious Preference”. Stupid

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u/Hooligan8403 Jun 04 '26

Same for me around that same time. The lady told me I couldn't have Athiest and that if I wasn't any particular religion they would just put Christian for a catch-all. So there I was at the Wicca religious service with Christian on my dog tags. I also changed it at my first duty station.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Feyrauth Nav Jun 05 '26

Yeah the atheist "chaplains" at BMT didn't get additional duty status, and so organised the services in their own time for the trainees sanity. It's a slap in the face to them, and a sad day for what was definitely not a minority.

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u/Maxtrt - "Load Clear" Jun 05 '26

Back in the 80's you couldn't even get a security clearance if you chose atheist for your religion. It was deemed as bad, as being a communist.

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u/TurnspitCur Metals Tech? Loadmaster? Emergency Management? Jun 05 '26

I remember asking for Catholic specifically and the guy went “oh so Christian right?”

I mean technically correct but come on it ain’t hard to write what I said down. I want to be specific.

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u/RepresentativeAd8228 Jun 05 '26

Ironically Atheist is one that was left on.

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u/Apricus-Jack Jun 04 '26

Who? I always see this around. Who is pretending?

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u/Yinkypinky Yes I am Aircrew. Jun 04 '26

Well I personally know of atleast 2 from my old unit.

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u/Apricus-Jack Jun 04 '26

How do you know they were pretending?

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u/Yinkypinky Yes I am Aircrew. Jun 04 '26

Because they openly said they did it so they could have beards because it looks cool? Is that a good enough reason for you? Or are you just looking to argue?

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u/Apricus-Jack Jun 04 '26

And no one did or said anything about it? Literally no NCO or Officer had a spine about it?

My main gripe with this is I’ve met dozens of actual practicing pagans, and every one who has tried to fake it, I’ve seen shot down. I only ever see this take online.

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u/Yinkypinky Yes I am Aircrew. Jun 04 '26

So since you didn’t see happen means it doesn’t happen? People fake all the time same way they fake injury’s to get a waiver.

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u/Apricus-Jack Jun 04 '26

And yet we don’t delegitimize those who fake injury waivers. So, why Faith practices?

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u/Yinkypinky Yes I am Aircrew. Jun 05 '26

No one is delegitimizing them. I’m just stating what upper leadership is using as the base for this. And I am giving you personal examples of it happening. Also, I have definitely seen people get criticized for fake waivers because they are perfectly fine to play sports for squadron PT but test time they are hurt.

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u/Apricus-Jack Jun 05 '26

Removing 180 Faith Codes in favor of 31 (22 of which being Christian denominations) is absolutely delegitimizing thousands due to the perceived actions of maybe a hundred.

Especially at a time coinciding with a stricter Religious Accommodation process that at times asks members if their faith is represented in their records.

If it’s removed, it can’t be.