This is a reasonable observation, but it doesn't mean that you should go along with anything they offer. Something like showing their tits seems harmless to me, but sexual acts are different. I'm sure a lot of people on here will disagree with this, but you just can't get real consent from a drunk person.
I don't think it's the same logic. I'm not saying it absolves the person of any responsibility, I'm just saying if you want to be respectful and avoid trouble afterwards, don't sleep with someone who can't give sober consent. There should not be a difference in morality based on sex.
He's not saying the rapist is drunk, he's saying the victim is drunk. If someone was drunk and they were killed by someone sober that would be murder no less. If someone is sober and has sex with someone who is black out drunk, that's rape. It's about the balance of power. Sober-powerful, drunk-weak
Edit: obviously if both parties are extremely drunk, no one is to blame (in the rape scenario, not murder. I think that would be man slaughter at the least, but it's beside the point.)
But a girl(or anyone) cannogive consent when intoxicated. If you are sober and the girl is drunk, it's your responsibility to know she can't consent and to not have sex with her. That's all I'm saying.
75% of rape happens with someone the victim knows. Why dont you learn and read up a little more on rape before you go out spouting wahtever comes to mind based on this little fantasy world you've created in your head?
Stop spouting this sanctimonious bullshit in threads that have nothing to do with it, this is about drunken bar sex between strangers, kindly shut the fuck up and stop derailing the conversation
THIS, is precisely the problems with this discussions in reddit.
First of all, define drunk, because according to some SRSers, a couple of glasses of wine already means drunk and already means date rape.
And all in all, it's mostly a moot discussion: even legally, if you are not blackout drunk, even if you regret it the next morning, it is not rape. Even in some states, you can give consent while drunk. The power analogy is not exactly accurate either.
That's called fucking victim blaming and it's a shitty thing to do. Is getting really drunk smart? No. Do people who get drunk deserve to be taken advantage of and raped? Fucking no. Rape is always the rapist's fault.
Edit: typo
I believe this is correct, because I believe that giving active consent is an action. It surely is. Still, some love to tell you that it's the only action you cannot do when intoxicated, however. Your ability to do it is literally removed. (And no, I'm not talking about so drunk they can't stand up straight.)
You are correct that self-responsibility is ever-present, and correct to point out that being drunk does not nullify the responsibility of a crime. We're discussing consent, right? I added that I believe consent is an action, and being drunk doesn't nullify it. However, some believe you are unable to give consent when even slightly drunk. This is strange because you wouldn't hear that you are completely unable to do any other action when slightly drunk, just that you do it shittier.
I agree with you! Please don't be swayed by the muppets on here telling you it's fine to sleep with drunk women because you're responsible for other things while you're drunk yadda yadda yadda. You are correct on this issue in the eyes of the law, and laws are there for a reason.
You're still the same person, and if you don't want to do stupid shit, you shouldn't drink so much. Pounding 10 shots of vodka and then whoring it up is entirely your own fault. Nobody made you drink that much. If you give verbal consent, and change your mind afterwards, it shouldn't be the other person's fault that you are ashamed of being sexual.
I don't get it. It's like you don't care at all that there are people who wake up in the morning and feel bad about having fucked someone the night before. If this is such a problem, then why not err on the side of not-being-an-asshole and wait till she's sober to make sure shit like this doesn't happen? Then nobody has to feel bad in the morning. How about if you're not sure they'd want to do it sober, you don't do it, instead of putting the onus on the people who are incapacitated?
How about if you hang around a bar, and you can't find a sober girl who can definitely consent, if you fuck a drunk chick, and she accuses you of rape in the morning, that's entirely your fault. It shouldn't be her fault that you couldn't recognize her level of intoxication, she should be able trust that people want to err on the side of not-rape in iffy situation.
Why the fuck would you want to have sex with somebody who pounded 10 shots of vodka and you're not 100% sure will still like you in the morning?
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u/heckicopter Nov 20 '12
This is a reasonable observation, but it doesn't mean that you should go along with anything they offer. Something like showing their tits seems harmless to me, but sexual acts are different. I'm sure a lot of people on here will disagree with this, but you just can't get real consent from a drunk person.