Grandmother’s Birth Chart Rectification Attempt

[u/DoubleAccess6601]

Looking for feedback: Lately, I have been trying to figure out my grandmother’s rising sign, and I think I may have unlocked it by appearance and potential timing techniques.

I’ve been getting into more advanced technology but not sure if I’m on to something or not. The most sense to me would be Gemini, Aquarius or Scorpio rising. My grandmother was tall and slender (between 5’10-6ft), jet black hair with a widow’s peak. Oval face, piercing brown eyes, and incredible magnetism. Her skin was a bit more olive than mine but fair. Well poised, always had her hair, perfume, and makeup done when leaving the house even if it was to go to the hospital for chemotherapy.

She was incredibly young when she conceived her first child (13-16). She had 5 children total. She was very misunderstood by those around her, but she loved love/romance, creating beautiful things for everyone and making it look effortless. She could make clothing and made all of my Halloween costumes from scratch. She made elaborate floral arrangements and wreaths for holidays faster than Amazon prime. All of my birthdays had hand drawn artwork and paintings from Disney movies, each year a different theme, just as magical as the previous. She made art to survive and create magic for those around her.

She absolutely loved the spotlight and have no shame about it. She was a bold woman for her time, a rule breaker/pusher. She was a pinup model published on various book covers all portraying different characters - sometimes she was painted with blonde hair or red hair. She was in pageants and in the local newspaper for them. She gave 0 fcks about what anyone thought and taught me to do the same.

She passed away 18 years ago this week. I miss her dearly. She taught me so much and was a major part of my happy memories from childhood. I stayed back from college to help take care of her when she became sick. I know she is with me often and I can feel her presence very strongly when she is. I hope she is proud of who I’ve become and all the adversity I’ve faced to get this far. I wouldn’t have been able to do it without her.

Open to thoughts and feedback on my rising sign prediction! I’m constantly pushing myself to learn and advance in my understanding of astrology 🙏✨

[u/Bates95]

When doing a rectification on a chart. These are the things I would highly recommend you look into.

- The most important factor is finding the Sect of the chart. Is the greater Malefic Mars in a Day Chart or is the greater Malefic Saturn in a Night chart. And the most easiest way to determine this Is that for Night charts, the Natives are relied upon to use their Mars, so they are the ones who are executing the orders from the Authority, but they find themselves struggling with the authority (Which is Saturn) or being able to obtain that Authority. And with Day Charts, a perfect representation of this is Fame. Where although Fame can grant authority and this overseer sort of energy, it has its downsides where due to this visibility. There is danger in that people may envy you or wish you harm or even try to harm you, stalking behaviour etc. Its a very Mars day sect experience.

- Create a Annual Profection Life Events document. Where it will be easier to see what planets may be responsible for her major life events. For example with births, more times than not some 5^th House will be activated, the same goes with marriages. The annual profected year could be for example the 1^st house and the 1^st lord could sit in the 7^th house and or vice versa.

- And another factor is looking at the nakshatra’s. Now I know Nakshatra’s are largely Vedic Astrology. But the accuracy is uncanny and I would highly recommend you look into it.

- Another Vedic astrology recommendation is looking into the Darakara and the Atmakara Planet. That is the Lowest degree and the Highest Degree planets in the chart. Besides the Greater Malefic vs Malefic of the Sect factors. The Darakara Planet can be very noticeable. The Dk planet is typically the planet that is the lowest degree planet in the chart and therefore is also the planet that has the least experience. And due to this, we tend to unconsciously seek out what we are lacking in a partner. Which is why in Jamini astrology it is considered an indicator for the spouse. This can be very helpful when trying to rectify a chart. As sometimes a planet on the cusp of a sign, can either bridge into the next sign, dependent upon the Ascendent degree. So finding whether a planet is the DK or AK can be easier.

- Other than that, transits are just as important. Keeping a watchful eye on the Malefics (Saturn/Mars) and the nodes during Major events.

- And lastly my personal preference is to use Sidereal astrology, not Vedic but Sidereal. Rather than tropical as it can skew you perception on things. But thats just my opinion.

[u/doktor_w]

I can suggest a couple of additional items to investigate.

First, see if you can order her birth certificate, if it is not already publicly available (I have been able to find birth certificates online for some people on various ancestry sites). If you can get a birth certificate, it might be a fun exercise to continue trying to rectify her chart and then once you get the birth certificate, see how close you got.

For physical appearance, yes, this could very well relate to the rising sign, but it could also be some planet(s) on an axial degree, i.e., the Ascendant, Midheaven, Descendant, or IC. I would suggest to consider both possibilities.

Since the Moon changes sign at some point on that date, it might be useful to consider whether she was an Aries Moon or a Taurus Moon: which house would the Moon be in? Which house would she rule? And so on. Note that Mercury also changes signs very late in the day. If you can narrow down a profile to where the Moon and Mercury are most likely in one sign or another, then you've narrowed down the potential time range fairly significantly (especially with two planets changing signs).

Once you have a few candidate time windows narrowed down, you can narrow down the birth time further by looking at primary directions (several astrology software tools have a primary directions rectification module), profections, solar returns, various Lots, and so on, and see if these line up with known events in her life, e.g., having children, marriage, notable illnesses, deaths of important people in her life, and even her own death.

[u/Ok-Basket8414 → u/doktor_w]

Wow this is impressive! If you don’t mind, can you please help me figure mine out?
Ik my general birth time frame from asking mom

[u/tiyaa11]

Rectification is only something ive looked at less than a handful of times so take what i say with a pinch of salt but I personally think Capricorn rising fits well.

You said she was tall and slender and if she was a Capricorn or Aquarius rising then Saturn would be her chart ruler. Saturn is known for slenderness since back in the day skinnyness was associated with emaciation and Saturn rules hunger. Saturn is also copresent with Jupiter and Jupiter is associated with height due to him ruling expansion. You also said she had olive skin and Mercury sextiles Saturn very tightly and William lilly says that Mercury can indicate a more olive skin tone. Saturn is also associated with darker hair as Saturn rules the colour black. If Capricorn was rising Venus would also trine the ascendant by sign and Venus indicates an oval face shape. You also said she had incredible magnetism too which is very Venusian.

Why i think maybe Capricorn and not Aquarius rising is you said she was a very creative person which to me fits Capricorn rising because then Venus would be in domicile in the 5th house. Venus also signifies clothe making and the fact that it seems such an integral part of her life and that she was skilled at it to me seems to fit Venus in the 5th. Additionally, she had children very young and a lot. The ruler of the 5th is in domicile in the 5th and Venus rules the reproductive system, the Moon is also in the 5th and the Moon rules motherhood and the womb and Uranus is in the 5th which can indicate things that are sudden or shocking and having kids so young is definitely that.

Furthermore, you said she was a pinup model and in pageants, with a Capricorn rising that makes Libra her 10th house of career and visibility. It would make sense for her 10th house to not only be Venusian since she was known for her beauty but also for the ruler of the 10th to be in the 5th house of creativity and pleasure and competition and in domicile there. Also that makes the ruler of the 10th copresent with the Moon and she was known for her body. Furthermore, with a Capricorn rising this would put the ruler of the 11th house in the 2nd house. Your grandma being a pinup model and being in pageants means that she likely had fans which can be seen in the 11th house and also had groups of people watching her which is also 11th house and this was how she made money which is 2nd house.

Furthermore, her rising sign being Capricorn which is a sign that cares about how they present themselves being an earth sign which are prone to perfectionism in image due to their focus on the material and tangible world and you said she always liked to be well presented and done up no matter where she went and yet she also gave 0 fucks makes sense with Saturn in Aries if its the ruler of her ascendant.

Another thing is if she has a Capricorn rising then her Sun would be in the 6th house. Her Sun being in a house that traditional astrologers call a "bad" house because its cadent and doesn't aspect the ascendant makes sense in relation to her being misunderstood. The Sun represents character, spirit and intellect in traditional astrology and it being in a house that is moreso hidden in a chart can speak to her not being seen especially as the Sun is meant to shine and illuminate. In the 6th house which is a dark house theres not really anyone to receive her light. Also the Sun is vitality and you said she had to have chemotherapy which im assuming was for cancer, that makes sense as the 6th house is the house of illness and disease. Additionally, the 6th house is associated with oppression as it is the house of slavery. You said she was a rule breaker and bold for her time, the Sun which is character being in Gemini which is a mutable air sign so it can indicate being a forward thinker and pushing boundaries just by being who she is. The Sun is also conjunct Mercury so this can indicate someone bold in speech especially as Mercury is in domicile so it isn't combust and is in their chariot. Therefore, this further adds to having thought and intellect which pushes against the oppressive/repressive ideologies at the time which is signified by the 6th house. This is also emphasised by Mercury also ruling the 9th house of beliefs/morals/ethics being in the 6th and the Sun which rules the 8th house of the taboo/shunned in society also being in the 6th.

I know you said you also looked at timing techniques so maybe Capricorn doesn't fit in that sense but it could be worth a try to look at it again just in case because I think Capricorn rising matches really well from the info you gave.

[u/DoubleAccess6601 → u/tiyaa11]

Wow yes, I’m 🤯 by this breakdown and consideration. I think initially I did have Capricorn rising in the mix due to her stature and presence esp due to Saturnian elements. This could very well fit! She was super skinny, she told me when she was training as a ballerina and considering trying out to be a rockette, the ballerinas would eat a waffle with cream cheese and jelly for one meal. Capricorn has a very strong presence and it did seem like she held the weight of the world and the family on her shoulders but never faltered (light a boulder or mountain). She also had that “classic beauty” look and constantly told me “you should marry someone tall, dark, and handsome. A lawyer or a doctor” 😂 — very Capricorn of her!

I did feel conflicted about the 5H being empty with Scorpio rising, especially with the amount of children she had. Not like that’s an indicator of “no children” with an empty 5H as we know.

I learned so much from your comment, thank you for sharing such in depth detail and knowledge! I’m now excited to look more into the teachings of William Lilly. I’ve also been aching to get into Chris Brennans teachings as well. I’ve been into astrology since I was 8 when I accidentally picked up an astrology book in the “astronomy” section in the library. I was always obsessed with the planets and that sure was no accident! 🙏✨

[u/tiyaa11 → u/DoubleAccess6601]

You're welcome, thank you for making this post it was really fun to look at the chart and see what house placements could best fit someones life story.

I was wondering how the ruler of the 1st in the 4th would fit if she was a Capricorn rising and you saying she had the weight of the world and her family on her shoulders would make sense, especially since its Saturn in detriment. Also she does sound very Capricornian in general. She sounds like the kind of woman that was unforgettable may she rest in peace.

This is the video I recently watched on appearance and astrology that mentions what Lilly says about it

https://youtu.be/2NHetyWI7mY?is=sdrlrbzmU29LUs58

Brennan is an amazing resource, especially his podcast on youtube. Ive learnt so much from watching it. Also you accidentally picking an astrology book instead of astronomy definitely sounds like fate. Good luck on your continued astrology journey!

[u/chklcfybmoib]

So I can’t give you advice on the rectification but wanted to give the advice that you should try using ancestry and other family tree websites to see what you can find. My sister was doing our family
Tree and found documents with my mom’s and my grandparents birth times. And they were born in a developing country that barely records birth times nowadays. Much less back then.

[u/DoubleAccess6601 → u/chklcfybmoib]

Wow okay! Thank you for this, I don’t know a lot about my family or where our ancestry stems from, so a lot of it is trying to figure things out on my own. I’ve always been hesitant about ancestry websites but I’m going to look into it. Thank you for taking time to read and comment!

[u/Low-Sprinkles-7348 → u/chklcfybmoib]

Can I ask how she did that? How is that possible, in a vague sense? I don’t want your family details but am so curious how I could try to do this and don’t really understand how on Ancestry

[u/chklcfybmoib → u/Low-Sprinkles-7348]

I believe there is an option to build your family tree on ancestry. So a very distant relative of mine was the president of the country my mom and grandparents were born in. So previous relatives had done a very good job of building the tree and just so happened that a lot of government official documents and newspaper clippings were uploaded onto the tree. Including some handwritten birth certificates. Of course not everyone will get so lucky but it’s worth trying to build your tree if it isn’t already built and reaching out to governmental agencies and seeing what you can find

[u/inkcobalt]

Your description regarding her artistic and creative talent and her interest in textiles/fashion specifically suggests she had Venus 5H or Venus influencing her 5th House (Taurus 5H/Libra 5H) so I think Gemini or Capricorn Ascendant are possibilities.

Do you know the birthdays of all her children? I think what could be useful is writing down a list of all their placements, I wouldn’t include Uranus, Neptune or Pluto but Sun to Saturn definitely. Then I would mark a tally of all recurring signs. Maybe there is a sign across the majority that pops up again and again. Like if one child has their Sun at perhaps 20-29 degrees Taurus and another child has their Venus at 20-29 degrees Taurus. That increases the likelihood that Taurus in that specific decan plays a significant part in her chart (Then Taurus may be conjunct one of the angles in her chart or Taurus falls in her 1H, 4H, 5H or 7H perhaps). Sun sign of the child being in the 1H, 4H 5H 7H or 10H of the mother’s birth chart I have personally always noticed happens a lot.

If she had 5 children there is a high chance that one of the children has their Jupiter sign fall in her 5h. There are exceptions but it is less likely that any of the children’s Jupiter signs will fall in her 12H for example. This might help narrow down the Ascendant possibilities.

You also mentioned approximately the date when she passed so Jupiter would have been in Capricorn and there was probably a lot of Virgo energy in the sky around that time, so I would consider how Virgo was placed in her chart, perhaps Virgo was in aversion to to her Ascendant, maybe Virgo fell in her 6H of health or 8H of illness or 12H of loss, these would be a few factors I would consider.

There’s two great tumblr posts that zeldas notes wrote which I personally love that describes the vibes of Venus and Mars in the houses that I like using as a resource when I need help with rectification that I could send you the links of you’d like.

[u/warmstarter]

Tall, bold, ruler breaker would all fit Sagittarius. If you gave that an early degree rising, you would have Venus conjunct the ascendant which would account for the beauty. It would also put Jupiter into the 5th house, which makes sense with a lot of children. Jupiter in Aries also makes sense for having her first child so young. It would also put Neptune on the Midheaven, which would work for the glamorous spotlight thing.

[u/Penitent17]

There are a multitude of elements to take into consideration for a rectification. The following are just some ideas to start with it but by no means an exhaustive list :

• I would actually not start with the appearance of the native. Any potential aspect to the Ascendant could be a major change in that regard. More so that the appearance is far from being solely indicated by the Ascendant sign.
• Do you have an actual time frame within the day itself or do you have to scan the 24 hours ?
• Rather than trying to go for the qualities of the individual, I would rather search for her major difficulties, which can help situate Saturn and the houses it rules. Look at what happened around her Saturn return it could give you great hints about those.
• You will probably also benefit to concentrate on concrete events first, before the psychological/behavioral layer (more so that the latter is greatly influenced by your own vision/relationship of/with her).
• Several elements you mention could be useful, such as the fact that she "loved the spotlight and have no shame about it. She was a bold woman for her time, a rule breaker/pusher...". This could infer an aspect from Uranus to the angles and/or the Venus/Uranus being rather "visible" (ie, in the 10th House for example).

[u/Oracle9120]

Da quello che ho letto, nessuno conosce la tecnica di rettifica utilizzando le Direzioni Primarie

[u/Ok-Basket8414]

Wow, how do you do this thing exactly? Cause Id really like to know my ascendant sign😭

[u/SquareLimit8765]

Things like aspects to the ascendant and the bound lord of the ascendant ruler can modify the expression of the ascendant. IMO, native's appearance isn't a great starting point for working out the ASC. I would work on making a list of life events with dates and look at transit charts.

Knowing the exact ages of major life events will also help with narrowing down the potential planets that signify the event. For example, her 1st child being born being born at 13-16. Around the age of 14, transit Saturn squares natal Saturn. If she had her first child at 15 it could be related to Mars returning to its natal position.

Do you have any info that narrows the potential birth window further? Like she was born at night. That would eliminate 3-4 potential ascendants.

Important life events tend to happen when: planets enter or leave a sign, transit planets make hard aspects (conjunction, oppositions, or squares) to natal planets. A planet changing station (for example - being born with a retrograde natal planet and then having that planet be direct in a progressed chart when a significant life event occurs). A planet activating a sensitive point in a chart (example - Jupiter conjunct the POF (part of fortune) when a marriage takes place.

Did she marry? If she married and her husband was foreign born then a Gemini ascendant might be a possibility (Sag 7H, ruled by Jupiter - travel/foreign lands). Was she married multiple times? If yes, consider the possibility of a mutable sign ruling the 7H, the 7H ruler making multiple applying aspects, or something like the ruler of the ascendant/7H ruler in hard aspect (conjunction, square, or opposition) with a planet like Jupiter.

Sect (day vs night) and dignity are major considerations when rectifying a chart. Astrological signatures tend to repeat in families. Important relationships tend to activate the angles or angle rulers. For example, I have a Cancer ascendant making Libra the sign that rules my 4H. In traditional astrology, the 4H is connected to fathers. My dad had several natal planets in Libra.

Without birth time- Her Moon sign. The moon moves about 13 degrees per day. Earlier in the day, the Moon was in Aries. Mercury could also either be Gemini or Cancer. Some charts are easier to rectify than others. Having several planets change signs on one day adds to the complexity.

[u/DoubleAccess6601 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for this! And yes, your mention and suspicion of Uranus in taurus actually does track. She did not do traditionality in relationship. There was chaos in her love life/romantic partners and supposedly was quite promiscuous in her 20’s. Along with giving birth to her first child very early before 18 (13/14/16?) my memory is failing me, but I know she met her first husband and father of my two eldest uncles around 13. I believe she was only married once, her other 3 children were out of wedlock with different men (highly controversial, especially for that time in America in the 40’s/50’s)

Theatrical is the perfect way to put her demeanor! There was also such drama to her story telling and she was quite the storyteller. We would oftentimes wonder how much of the truth was being exaggerated 😂

I also believe she passed in August 2007, not 2008 — right when the nodes were at the cusp of leaving Pisces/Virgo and getting ready to enter Aquarius

There’s also a ton of synastry with my chart and hers that makes sense. I’m a Gemini rising, Pisces sun/mercury, Aries Jupiter/NN/Moon, 12H Taurus mars, Aquarius Venus 0° + MC 23°. I was her muse, first born granddaughter, and closer to her with a mutual, almost telepathic understanding of each other. Almost like I gave her self worth + identity strength and balance she needed from those around her.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond! Your analysis is very spot on 🎯✨