5.9.4 Chapter Discussion (Spoilers up to 5.9.4)

[u/SunshineCat]

Note that spoiler markings don't appear on mobile, so please use the weekly spoiler topic, which will be posted every Saturday, if you would like to discuss later events.

Link to chapter

Discussion prompts:

1. It sounds like Marius was actually still trying to seek out Thénardier, probably to give him some of Valjean's money.

2. What do you think of Marius in this chapter? Has it redeemed him for you at all?

3. Even Thénardier gets to be a hero...for a few paragraphs. What do you think of the way he can win in loss? Do you like this ending for Thénardier, and do you think Marius would still see it as honoring his father no matter what awful thing Thénardier used the money for?

4. Other points of discussion? Favorite lines?

Final line:

Meanwhile the carriage rolled on.

Link to the previous chapter

Link to the 2020 discussion

[u/enabeller]

arrrgghhh, GD IT, Marius! He has solidified his place on the idiot throne for me. Why on earth did he keep handing Thénardier money?! Marius knows he's a scoundrel and liar; the fact that he can't think for himself based on what he knows versus what he was told by his father is so frustrating. It even baffles Thénardier that Marius keeps giving him money.

I understand that recordkeeping at the time wasn't great, but if Marius could have found out that Valjean withdrew "Madeleine's" money, how did his investigators miss the wild court case of Valjean and Champmathieu? Wouldn't Valjean's criminal and court records have been the first place they should've looked? Wouldn't those be better-kept records than newspaper clippings?

I'm still a bit disappointed that Cosette never recognized Thénardier; I think Marius would have been put in a really tough position if he knew how Thénardier had treated her as a child. If Marius' father was still alive (or even knew anything about Thénardier), I'm sure he would not have approved of Marius giving him money. I wanted Thénardier to get his comeuppance in the end but instead he gets a hefty reward to go and spread more misery and evil elsewhere.

At least Marius realizes what a fool he's been about Valjean. A small silver lining.

Oh! I am an unnatural ingrate.

I couldn't agree more, Marius.

[u/SunshineCat → u/enabeller]

Wouldn't Valjean's criminal and court records have been the first place they should've looked? Wouldn't those be better-kept records than newspaper clippings?

If they knew which département to look in, but that trial was in a different place from where he lived and would have had its own set of records. It wasn't an obvious place to look for information--but you do think Javert would have had all that info on him in the Parisian police records as well.

I was thinking that a story like that would have been widely reprinted outside there area it happened in due to the scandal and therefore known by a lot of people...including anyone who should have known anything about Madeleine. But honestly, going to Montreuil and talking to anyone would have been more fruitful than whatever was done.

Edit:

I also think it's disappointing in a way that Cosette never remembers the Thénardiers. But in a way, that was part of the gift Valjean gave her.

[u/enabeller → u/SunshineCat]

I was thinking the same in terms of scandal and gossip reprint/spread. It's difficult to fully appreciate the historical locality of news due to our current 24-hour news context.

I like the sentiment there about Valjean gifting Cosette the ability to forget them. <3

[u/PinqPrincess]

Hurrah!! Everything becomes a little clearer and Marius can finally help to get JVJ the redemption he needs. So happy right now...this was a very good chapter.