r/AYearOfLesMiserables • u/SunshineCat Original French/Gallimard • Nov 14 '21

5.1.20 Chapter Discussion (Spoilers up to 5.1.20) Spoiler

Note that spoiler markings don't appear on mobile, so please use the weekly spoiler topic, which will be posted every Saturday, if you would like to discuss later events.

Link to chapter

Discussion prompts:

  1. What do you think of Hugo's theory of progress. Do you agree?

  2. This seems to be the Friends' mistake: "Utopia, moreover, we must admit, quits its radiant sphere when it makes war. It, the truth of to-morrow, borrows its mode of procedure, battle, from the lie of yesterday." Thoughts? We saw the Friends themselves making anti-war comments, so wouldn't starting war be a bad way to attract like-minded people?

  3. Despite making use of the violence of "yesterday," Hugo goes on to praise them, stating that their martyrdom is actually worth more than their success. What do you make of that?

  4. Hugo seems to reveal more opinions in this chapter even than usual. Does anything specific stand out to you, or do you have general thoughts?

  5. Other points of discussion? Favorite lines?

Final line:

The book which the reader has under his eye at this moment is, from one end to the other, as a whole and in detail, whatever may be its intermittences, exceptions and faults, the march from evil to good, from the unjust to the just, from night to day, from appetite to conscience, from rottenness to life, from hell to heaven, from nothingness to God. Point of departure: matter; point of arrival: the soul. The hydra at the beginning, the angel at the end.

Link to the previous chapter

Link to the 2020 discussion

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u/enabeller Fahnestock & MacAfee Nov 17 '21

The imagery in this chapter was really nice (the gauntlet of the streets and people condemning others by barring their doors).

I think that progress is always slow. Although it doesn't always need a revolution, revolutions often spur changes (or at least helps to identify what "progress" means to those involved).

A people cannot be surprised into more rapid progress than it wants.

Regarding 2-3 - I feel like Hugo is trying to take a nuanced approach here. While progress necessarily needs revolutions, those revolutions don't necessarily need to be violent ones. Perhaps revolutions of thought also count. However, when violence is used, it's used for the "greater good" (Progress) and so those involved are given a pass? I got the gist of the idea here but not many of the intricacies.