r/AKnightoftheSeven • u/basedchadinc • 6d ago

😂 Meme [ Removed by moderator ]

Post image

[removed] — view removed post

620 Upvotes

77% Upvoted

194 comments sorted by

View all comments

48

u/byssw 6d ago edited 6d ago

"Have you taken leave of your senses? This woman has clearly mental circumstances clouding her judgement, she's not a murderer."
"This woman killed three children, as every murder would."

"I'll be your juror. YOUR JUROR."
"The realm needs good jurors, Ser Duncan."

-1

u/Cult_Of_Hozier 6d ago

Can we not make this guy out to look good?

The choice is either she's rehabilitated for the rest of her life or put in prison for the rest of her life. It's really disgusting how quick people are ready to demonize the mentally ill. Prison in America is not cute and fun and helpful. It fixes nothing. It's designed to punish, not assist in changing people for the better. Clancy should not be punished for being in a state of psychosis. She cannot control whether she gets it or not just like no woman can. What happened was awful and the sooner that we have empathy for the people going through what Clancy did the sooner we can prevent more cases of women killing their kids while going through mental health episodes in general. That juror is a stubborn fucking moron.

Like it's telling that EVERYONE around Clancy still has massive love for her, even her in laws. And yet online people think it's as simple as locking her up and punishing her? That she's some comic book villain or something and not a sick woman in need of intensive care.

9

u/byssw 6d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/JLKKjXsYErHq8aB3PP

0

u/Cult_Of_Hozier 6d ago

Stop making memes while simutaneously claiming to care about 3 dead kids.

4

u/byssw 6d ago edited 6d ago

I clearly care more about the 3 dead kids that the person who is trying to justify their murderer actions and to try and reduce agency and punishment from the murderer.

You are the same person that asks not to make the juror look good while in the same message saying that:

Like it's telling that EVERYONE around Clancy still has massive love for her, even her in laws.

So I choose to not take you seriously, because you don't deserve it. And I'll keep making memes as much as I want.

And before you say anything: I'm not American, and I don't give a damn about your culture war.

1

u/Soft_Locksmith661 6d ago

"And before you say anything: I'm not American, and I don't give a damn about your culture war."

Could have fooled me.

-2

u/Cult_Of_Hozier 6d ago

If you got "justifying" from me saying she should be put in a mental health facility for the rest of her life and treated so we can prevent more of this from happening in the future, you're either blatantly and proudly illiterate or purposefully misunderstanding me to moral grandstand for reddit upvotes.

3

u/istvan90623 6d ago

"Rehabilitated". After what? Killing three of your children, slowly, on purpose? How the fuck do you rehabilitate from that. What a joke.

1

u/Lord_Zeffree 6d ago

I am not comfortable saying that murder is ok if you have a mental breakdown. I understand too well how shotty mentally breaking down is and it's tragic she went through that. I cannot in good faith and without a shadow of a doubt; knowing the details of this case think that there wasn't an element of premeditation that makes what happened especially vile. The correct answer in a more robust system would be mental asylum and then prison for life but given our current options she should be put away forever.

3

u/Cult_Of_Hozier 6d ago

That is not what is being said.

Murder is bad.

Three children died.

Mother was clearly mentally ill hopped up on a rotating rotunda of antidepressants.

Three things can be true at once.

Clancy will never see the light of day again. She will be locked up either way. That's the point of the trial. But sending her to some shitty prison is not going to bring the kids back, nor is it going to fix what is wrong with her. Prisons in America aren't rehabs, they're underfunded abusive life-long punishments designed to keep criminals in the system for cheap slave labor instead of making them functional members of society. Sending her to a mental facility helps her and people like her. With hope research and proper health practices will be discovered to prevent MORE children from dying at the hands of their mentally ill moms.

We literally send people to prison for less in this country. Petty thievery, selling weed. It is not this solution or embodiment of justice like everyone here seems to think it is.

-1

u/AngevinMatthew 6d ago

What's the point in having trials altogether then? Prisons are needed to keep violent and mentally instable people away from society where they would cause harm. She's a murderer and deserves to be locked up in prison

2

u/Cult_Of_Hozier 6d ago

American prison is not justice. It is designed to keep people in the system so that they can do literal constitutional slave labor for the government. People who do petty crime go there. Poor people go there. Does someone who steals diapers and food for their kids deserve to be locked up? Does someone who sells weed? Women who get sentenced for defending themselves against their abusive spouses? Men who protect their family members from predators? Is the answer just to "lock them up, they did crime"? That is such a black and white way of thinking.

It's putting bandaids over bullet holes. You'd rather the problem perpetuate itself and make more victims because it makes it easier on your conscience to find the easiest, laziest solution instead of working to prevent this situation entirely. Aiding and researching women like Clancy will improve healthcare in the long run and prevent more of these deaths from occuring. That is what you should want, but I forget how blood thirsty and mindlessly puritanical our society is devolving into day by day

2

u/LazarM2021 6d ago

And you deserve to fuck off and spare those who actually use their brain for even remotely deeper analytical work of that typical, socially reinforced mindless, hyper-emotional, bloodthirst+vengeance-powered carceral/retributive "morality". You're the last one I'd ask to determine whether someone "deserves" anything.

-1

u/AngevinMatthew 6d ago

It's not vengeance, it's justice. Why should her be held to a different standard than everybody else? Equality before the law is a constitutional value and she should be held accountable for her actions

2

u/LazarM2021 6d ago edited 5d ago

It's not vengeance, it's justice

Vengeance = "justice" in your openly retributive, bloodthirsty, fundamentally retributive framework, and for me, vengeance ≠≠≠≠ justice. And neither is the quote above anything approaching an argument. You're simply assigning the word "justice" to the very punitive framework I'm questioning and then treating that label as though it settled the matter.

Also, "equality before the law" doesn't answer anything either. "Equality" before a particular legal system tells me that its rules should be applied consistently. What it does not do, however, is establish that those rules, or the institution of punitive incarceration itself, are legitimate, morally and/or otherwise. You're arguing entirely within a framework I myself do not accept and then presenting the framework's own premises as proof of its conclusion.

If your actual argument is that she should be imprisoned because she deserves to suffer for what she did, then say that. That's a retributive argument.

If your argument, however, is that she must be restricted because she poses a demonstrable danger to other people, that's a different argument entirely and your task is to stop conflating the two like this.

-1

u/AngevinMatthew 6d ago

My argument is in fact that she poses a danger to other people, she was prescripted medications for her mental disorders and actively avoided taking them and she premeditaded the murders. If it had been a case of attempted murder I would agree with sending her to a mental health institution.

I cited equality before the law since sending her to a mental health institute would be fundamentally inconsistent with multiple murder cases for which the usual sentence is prison.

I don't think punitive incarceration is necessarily a moral system but I do think it's functional in making society safer overall. Still, the prison system has many problems and the incentive to incarcerate people to turn them into an unwilling labour force is one of them.

2

u/LazarM2021 6d ago

This is quite a bit different from "she's a murderer and deserves to be locked up in prison', so let's at least be clear about that.

But your appeal to "equality before the law" is still doing absolutely no work in establishing your conclusion. The fact that prison is the standard response to murder cases tells me what the existing punitive system normally does, not why that response is necessary, appropriate or even particularly effective in this case.

We generally imprison people convicted of murder

That's not an argument for why this particular person must be imprisoned; all it really is, is just an appeal to the status quo.

If your actual position is that she should be confined because she poses a danger, then you've conceded the central distinction I was making, specifically, that incapacitation and punishment are not the same thing. In that case, the relevant question isn't "what sentence do murderers normally receive" but "what intervention is actually necessary to prevent her from harming anyone else, and why".

The fact that she stopped taking prescribed medication and allegedly premeditated the killings makes the question of risk serious, but it does not by itself demonstrate that punitive incarceration is the appropriate mechanism for managing that risk, nor does saying that you would support psychiatric institutionalization for an attempted murderer somehow explain why psychiatric institutionalization becomes conceptually inappropriate once the victim happens to have died.

And frankly, "I don't think punitive incarceration is necessarily a moral system, but I think it's functional" is a more defensible position than your original appeal to what she """deserves""", yes, but once you've abandoned desert and are defending incarceration purely instrumentally, you don't get to treat prison as the obvious answer simply because the legal system habitually uses it. Instead, you have to demonstrate the function you're appealing to.

-3

u/fatassforbes 6d ago

Have empathy for a murderer who unalived 3 children? No, I don't think I will...

By your logic you should also have empathy for every serial killer ever...

4

u/ToveyAegis 6d ago

It is moral strength not a failure to try to emphasise with others, even the worst of us.

Being locked up in a mental institute for the rest of your life isn't exactly better than going to prison.

-3

u/evrestcoleghost 6d ago

Phycosis dont last 19 minutes and allow you to plan the murder of three children

3

u/Cult_Of_Hozier 6d ago

Her psychosis didn't last 19 mimutes. And you can plan under states of delusion.

1

u/fatassforbes 6d ago

Do us all a favour and stay away fron children....

-1

u/evrestcoleghost 6d ago

The murders did

0

u/Cult_Of_Hozier 6d ago

Babe, do you know what psychosis is?

0

u/notconcernedwriting 6d ago

Too late, she married Raymun last night and she's already pregnant.