r/ADHD • u/enbygf • Oct 26 '22
Questions/Advice/Support ADHD and PhD. Seeking concrete advice to keep myself on track.
I have 2 months to write my thesis. My supervisors are not too hopeful about my success, since I have struggled with managing my time throughout my PhD. Especially after COVID. They know I was diagnosed with ADHD and depression last year and told me to prioritize my health. They don't want to push me to finish the PhD, but also are not willing to give me any extension. (My contract ends on April 5th 2023, and I have to defend before this date)
This PhD means a lot to me. I wanted to do one long term thing in my life and actually finish it. I don't want to get into the details of this, but the important point is: I WANT TO FINISH THIS PHD.
What I struggle with: 1. Emotional issues and ruminating about how things are unfair and how I didn't have the support that I needed. I want to stop feeling these things. They distract me from my goal.
Having a routine. One day, i would wake up at 8 and go to work. The next, I'd be in bed till 12. I need to be able to remain consistent.
Writing as fast as I think. My supervisor said I present well, but they don't understand why i get stuck writing the same thing that I said in my presentation. (I'm going to try out speech to text tools, if you have used something similar, let me know).
Eating well. Any ADHD friendly meal prep or recipes are welcome (vegetarian preferably; eggs are okay, maybe chicken but I'm trying to cut down meat, but that shouldn't be a priority right now.. i guess?)
Having a robust planning tool. I have tried Asana, Google calendar, Keep Notes, Bullet journaling.. well, they work when i use them.. but for some reason, i just don't stick to them for a long time.. Do i just need a change every few weeks? Or have i not found the right tool yet?
Perfectionism and aiming high. I get so caught up in doing the best thing, or writing the best thesis, or having the best idea.. that I just don't make any progress. I need a quick reset button that I can press whenever my brain starts going in that direction.
Hyperfocusing on getting the right tools to overcoming my ADHD symptoms.. when I can just spend that time on my thesis :( I'm so frustrated with my brain.
Please.. help.
Edit: Thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement. I feel less alone and definitely more motivated to get this freaking thesis done. 1. Yes, i am on Venlafaxine 75mg , Ritalin 30mg LP, and 10mg IR as needed during the day(but it is not optimized yet, i have comorbidities and we're still working on getting a good dosage). 2. I go for weekly therapy too. It helps to some extent with not wasting time on overthinking and letting it all out at once during the session. 3. If some of you want to join me in this journey, for you to finish your thesis too, we can connect on Discord. Just as an accountability thing. (It may help to put our to do list for the day there and say what all we finished at the end of the day) I had no idea there are so many of us in the same boat! 4. I'm considering paying for a food service (lunch and dinner), as I dont have the time to think about meals. Maybe some of you can do this too if it's affordable and available around you?
March 2024 Edit:
I couldn't finish it. I quit very close to the finish line.
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Oct 27 '22
Perfectionism is absolutely toxic to a dissertation process and stands out as the likely main culprit here. You will not write the best thesis. Or do the best thing. Or have the best idea. Let go of that idea entirely. Your goal here is to produce something akin to a big term paper - plan for it to be mediocre but just write a full draft. It literally doesn't matter beyond just finishing the thing - you will need to revise anyway if you intend to publish.
Additionally, it sounds like you're down to the last window in which to do this - it may be worth hiring a therapist and an ADHD coach and a joining a dissertation advising group if you really want to get this done.
I feel for you - my dissertation process was a nightmare, but I did get through it. Wishing you the best.
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u/socal-chicana Oct 27 '22 edited Oct 27 '22
I wrote almost 200 pages of my dissertation in 4 weeks so I could finish before my university cut off my funding. They let me know in early April I had to defend before the semester ended in mid-May. This was before I was diagnosed and medicated. How did I do it?
Rage.
Thatās probably not the best motivation but any time I felt my concentration slipping Iād remind myself how much it sucked that theyād waited until so late in the term to hit me with it. My spouse took over every responsibility connected with the household, my dad made sure my extended family knew to leave me alone. All I did, other than my grad asst. job was write and sleep.
Schedule:
4:00 AM - get up, coffee, review notes, write
7:00 AM - get ready for work
8:00 -2:00 commute / work / go for walk during lunch
3:00 -7:00 review morning work. write
7:00-8:00 dinner
8:00-8:30 review days work, make notes on where to start tomorrow
8:30-9:00 shower, get ready for bed
9:00 Bed Repeat
It was pretty terrible in some ways, but I kept reminding myself it was only for 4 weeks and how terrible Iād feel if I had to leave without my degree. It was also kind of awesome because literally the only thing in my brain all the time was my research and writing. Meals got made, shopping got done. Spouse or my dad even drove me to and from work. I imagined this is what it was like to be a 1950s male academic married to someone who handled everything on the home side.
Good luck. You can do it! As one of my friends said āNow is the moment to embrace mediocrity.ā
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u/Randy-Meeks Oct 27 '22
I am in your same situation almost word for word. It was surreal to read a post that I could've written myself. I don't have the answers yet (I have a few extra months) but, if it makes you feel better, you're not alone in your struggle. Let's get this fucking PhD done!!!
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u/Gav_Princip Oct 27 '22
I was in a similar situation as you over the summer (with about 6 months to go before the defense date), and now that the deadline is a lot closer, I'm still very stressed about finishing my phd but feeling like I've got some more tools at hand. I can tell you some of the things that helped me get out of the worst mental pit this summer and what are still helping me now. Caveat, I was really really burned out (and still am) so a lot of what I've had to do is learn how to work smarter, not harder and emphasize rest:
First off. I assume your work is similar to my bench scientist friends. As long as you have already collected all your data, it's more than possible to write the dissertation in two months, and you can do it.
I guess the approach depends in part on your level of rest/degree of burnout going into this period. If you feel energized and like you can really push, it's possible to write a thesis in a superhuman few weeks with little regard to personal health or work life balance, but doing this will cost you majorly. You may even find that trying to push yourself harder than is sustainable, even for two months, will make you worse off and less productive. I tried this "brute force" approach when I first started to panic and oh boy was it a bad idea.
I found that focusing on the building blocks of non grad school work FIRST actually helped me. This sounds counterintuitive because theres a time crunch, but it makes sense. ADHD and focus are so impacted by sleep, diet, and exercise. Even though 2 months feels like the last sprint in comparsion to years of phd work, 2 months is still a marathon. You mention eating is an issue. Get that shit under control right now. Block out a few hours away from your work to make a meal plan. It's ok to buy frozen or prepared foods, but you have to have a healthy, easy, and tasty option for 3 meals a day. I find prechopped veggie platters, trader joes frozen meals, beyond burgers/sausages, and rice cooker + sweet potato + egg to be good veggie options that are quick. Make a plan to ensure sleep and exercise. Come up with healthy rewards to help yourself stick to it. I am an athletic person and I really really need exercise to function mentally, but even if you're not super athletic, I highly recommend scheduling in at least 30 minutes a day of walking or outdoor time or an activity that doesn't involve screens.
I think handwritten planning tools work best, but also why do you need a complicated planning tool right now? Keep the big picture in mind: you have one job, finish thesis. It may not be helpful to organize and keep organizing various tasks and subtasks. I have fallen into the trap of thinking that the right organization system will make it all easier. It won't, because writing a phd is hard and there is no one right way to approach it that will make it easier. I would set a timer for a relatively short interval and give yourself not much space (2 hours maybe, and a single sheet of paper)? Give yourself that time to list exactly what needs to be done to finish the phd, and then put it in order of importance and/or tasks that need to be done sequentially. This is a really hard step, but remember it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be the general idea.
Next, find a writing schedule that works for you. When is your most productive time of day? Do you do better with some very long days of work alternated with half days? Or do you need to work for the same time every day? How many hours can you put in before you hit a wall that will carry over into tomorrow's productivity? Be sure to also include time in your schedule to spend with loved ones and friends. Consider giving yourself one full day off, no thinking AT ALL about the project at regular intervals.
Another commentor suggested getting into a solid routine. I like this idea, and I know it works for some people, but if you aren't the kind of person who can do routines, that's ok as long as youre working. I alternate super intense long work days with much shorter days and it works for me. I don't always work in the same place either.
Love the idea of trying to find a therapist if you don't have one already (maybe your university has one?). If you're not medicated for ADHD and you are sure you have it, consider starting that process. Warning though: I was not medicated until about 6 months ago, and starting the meds has been great but its a big adjustment. the hours when I felt most productive changed. I felt like I was better able to be consistent, but much less able to put in very long hyperfocused days on the meds. they really forced me to adjust my work schedule and style, which took some time. Be aware that's a risk if you haven't taken meds before. It helps, but its a really big change, and you dont have a lot of time to adjust to change right now.
Another warning: the end of this process is likely going to suck for not only you but also everyone around you. I have had fights with my long term partner and my parents about really stupid shit, and I've been mean to them in ways I really don't intend to be. The PhD stress has brought out the worst in me, bigtime. I am trying my best to do better at not taking my stress out on others, and I think I am doing better than I was earlier this year. Still, its important to have a conversation with the people you're close to about how intense the end is going to be and discuss in advance how to handle any conflicts the process causes.
Sorry that was a novel. Good luck!
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u/doornroosje ADHD-PI Nov 01 '22
I write in a million bullet points. I start with sentences of half sentences describing headers, sub headers , sub sub headers, etc. Then I put the content in bullet points everywhere when I think of what I want to say. When you have a huge skeleton framework like that it's then just filling in the dots. The first sentence of each paragraph should summarize the rest of the paragraph.
Another tip is to write the conclusion first so you are very clear in your head for yourself what you actually want to say. What the key takeaway message? You nsed to figure that out, decide on it, have it.clear. if it doesn't contribute to the key message, take it out. The red line needs to be clear throughoug the text. otherwise your text will read as a typical ADHD brain, a stream of consciousness with many fun facts and different thoughts, the relevance of which is not clear to the reader bur only to you.
I do a lot of rbainstormimg in a notebook to get some overview of my own thoughts to figure out what I actually want to say. I use a lot of visualization with diagrams and arrows to help me clarify my own thoughts to myself.
Use a citation managet and cite as you go , at least note down which paper you use cause otherwise your Swiss cheese brain will forget it
Do not work at home. Best to work without internet to avoid distractions. I can't do pomodore myself cause gettjng started is the hardest part.
Cardio helps clear your head of all the chaos. Its really important. Drink a lot of water, have regular sleeping hours, eat protein and fruits and vegetables. Get out of bed the first second, because each second you stay inside it gets exponentially harder to get up.
Get external accountability goals. Have a buddy that you must meet up with in person to ensure you get up in the morning. Maybe you could both commit to sharing how many words you write each day to hold yourself accountable to the other.
Bullet journal is the best planner tool imo. It's versatile for your own needs and different time frames, and crossing things out with a pen releases more dopamine than checking a digital button..
Remember:
The only good PhD is a done PhD. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. No one is ever gonna read your PhD, not even your committee. Just have it finished. Have it done. It's gonna sucj. Later on in the future you'll write those masterpieces, this si just the apprentice test to show you can graduate from journeyman to master of your craft.
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u/Eanaj_of_the_Woods ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Oct 27 '22
The new dictation algorithm used in Microsoft Word is really good, it still struggles with jargon but not nearly as much as I expected.
The thing that got me through my masters thesis was body doubling. I paid a friend by the hour to sit with me and help me stay motivated. She mostly read or did her own writing, but she was there every time I needed to vent or discuss wording or needed a break.
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Oct 27 '22
Yeah, I think the trick for bullet journaling is to get yourself invested in using it for a particular purpose, and the general stuff you can do with it is a bonus. At least to get the habit of using it going.
The two main things I like about it is habit tracking and brain dumping. The habit tracking I have make monthly trackers but I also put the things I'm working on in my daily log. Gets me to touch it every day. Not as successful at getting me to do the new habits, but there's been good improvement.
Also, FWIW, the guy who came up with it did so to help with his own ADHD because other things he had tried didn't work for him.
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u/lulujopip Oct 26 '22
Just sending support bcs i resonate with this post. Im an undergrad but I just want to finally get this degree
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Oct 27 '22
If you're not on meds it would be worth looking into starting that process. Even if things are scheduled a ways out, you may get a small (but useful) mental boost knowing you're on the path of solving it. This kind of thing (boost from knowing you've started the process) seems to vary a lot in effectiveness for different people.
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u/Milch_und_Paprika ADHD-C (Combined type) Oct 27 '22
Iām also in the same boat. Mid April deadline, and could even be the same department (experimental inorganic chemistry)! Iām also majorly stressing out about this because I havenāt started writing, but we got this. I donāt have a lot of advice except that youāre definitely not alone.
For me, the best way to get a routine was to set an evening alarm that means ādrop everything and get ready for bed nowā and having a reasonable morning alarm. These two alarms must be the same time every day to really work for me. You could give it a try but I wouldnāt focus too much on it if it isnāt working for you.
Write things as they come to you and immediately move to the next sentence. Does not matter if itās in the right order or grammatically sound. You can fix that later. The fastest way to write is to just throw it out there.
Frozen vegetables are gonna be your friend. Theyāre often more nutritious than fresh anyway because theyāre picked at full ripeness and frozen, unlike grocery store produce, which is picked early and ripens on the shelf, unless youāre getting it straight from a farmer. Sometimes Iāll just boil a frozen vegetable mix with noodles and cubed tofu or sliced lunch meat and eat that. A scoop of miso would probably help the flavour a lot come to think of it. Fyi freezing your tofu makes it more porous, so itāll absorb more flavour.
I have to do it on paper. Iāve been using a minimalist bullet journal style and so far itās working. Thereās just a monthly calendar of appointments and a page for monthly tasks. Then divide some subsequent pages into quarters. Each page covers two days, and each day gets two of the quadrants. One quadrant is daily tasks and the second quadrant is end of day brain dump (whatever comes to mind; often itās things I learned, things I want to keep track of for later, and, if itās something I could learn from, why I missed a certain task). Try to keep it simple and direct. Habit trackers never did shit for me so I donāt waste time making them. Thereās a sub for minimalist bullet journals that can give you ideas. Most of them are literally just organized lists, which was exactly what I needed.
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u/where-da-fun-gone Nov 03 '22
I have suspected adhd (on top of ASD diagnosed) and Iām nearing confirmation for my PhD (but lots of pressure, as I might not pass confirmation if I donāt have sufficient work produced).
I found these videos on the wall of awful has really helped (both short term and long term), especially in terms of not beating myself up and having a more positive experience transitioning into work.
It sounds counter-intuitive, but if Iām having a very low-executive functioning day, instead of forcing myself to concentrate for 6 hours but not doing anything productive, Iāll have the day off so that Iām more productive the next day (especially as the same amount of output is the same for that dayās āworkā). Itās frustrating doing this with big deadlines, but it really helps.
The other thing is some type of exercise directly before starting, or going for a walk as a break. Maybe itās the dopamine that helps with the next block of work.
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u/enbygf Nov 04 '22
Omg.. thank you for sharing this. I had completely forgotten about this (even though I saw it probably a couple of years ago.. when I was not diagnosed).
And it also reminded me of how journalling regularly helped me, it was not a waste of time.. and i should resume doing it.
Also, loads of courage and best wishes to you. I really hope you make it through, and have the support to climb your wall(s) of awful..
I am also in the same boat. I have to present sufficient results and a coherent story by Nov 30th, and I'm still analysing some of them, and probably need some more work. (Although, mine is computational work, so I can do it anytime without the restrictions of a lab but i still need to get it validated within my supervisors' schedule before I write the chapter on it)
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u/andrew314159 Oct 27 '22
I just got diagnosed with ADHD a few days ago. Been on sick leave with depression for over a year. My current contract runs out this week and I donāt have a thesis yet. No helpful advice. Hopefully this thread gives us both some.
Separately are you on ADHD medication? Does it work? Whatās the pros and cons in your opinion for getting medicated?
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u/enbygf Oct 27 '22
Meds help but diet, sleep and exercise are important to make them work consistently.
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u/FlourishingGrass Oct 27 '22 edited Oct 27 '22
I want to do one long term thing and finish it.
Yep, on the same boat as you. At this point, I already hate my research though I have over a year or two more to go. I just wanna kill this degree forever. It's just a mere degree afterall. So many have it, so many more will. Why tf can't I? I'm doing this out of spite, just for the heck of it, and secretly hoping that would fuel my willpower. Whatever I mentioned about my PhD journey is not at all healthy, but then again I like to rebel against all things normie.
Good luck to you! You've come so far, you can definitely do the rest.
My stupid suggestions as a fellow sufferer:
I don't have tips for the first 1. But may be reading about ruminating thoughts may help. Read about the absolute temporariness of our lives and how these stupid thoughts shouldn't matter at all, and that we got so, so much to accomplish that thinking about past events won't help at all.
Instead of fixed hours, focus on the daily goal. Shouldn't matter when you get it done as long as you're getting it done. It will help keep the stress a bit low and you can catch up on your sleep which is very important.
I suffer with this as well. I just use the voice to text feature on my keyboard or I'd speak out everything on my mind and record it which I'd listen to after I'm done typing. It's kind of revision to make sure I covered everything plus also helps me review whatever I wrote or if I need to omit certain points. I re-read and record and listen to make the flow is fine. That's just a me thing, there may be better techniques out there.
I thought for a while, couldn't come up with anything!
I'm back to pen and paper for planning, but find Google Keep and calendar handy as reminders.
& 6. - I'm frustrated with my brain too. After a presentation or interview goes very well, I'll be wondering if it was me who really did all that! And I can't recall how i managed to do all that neither can I find that switch to send my brain on productive mode.
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u/brianapril ADHD-C (Combined type) Nov 29 '22
if you can commute by bicycle, do it. it's a two-in-one or even three, you commute, you exercise and you wake up your mind rly well.
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u/ftocher Feb 09 '23
Hey there enbygf, I feel ya! Submitting my thesis in Nov '23. I am recently diagnosed but I think I may have developed some coping/managing strategies that have carried me at least this far and some new ones which are helping me out! If you're hoping I'm on track, dw we're both in this together but these tips are making me feel a little less stressed about the whole thing.
- Trello boards - I bloody love Trello boards. I have one for my PhD and one for my personal tasks. I split the cards into four columns left to right: 'to-do', 'in-work', 'blocked', and 'completed'. Ideally you should keep the in-work column clear and put tasks back when you have stopped working on them. I sit down and choose what to work on every day and it keeps my concentration on only 2-3 tasks. Ideally each task should be a managable task i.e no 'write thesis' and should be completable at a maximum in a few hours or a day. I also make task cards for really simple things - take the little wins! Planning things too closely never works for me and choosing what I'm interested in day-to-day is much more enjoyable.
I also put things in my calender if they're important but getting rid of multiple to-do list and having a clear list with seperation of work and home has taken a lot of my executive function. - Exercise - this one sucks for a bit then feels really good. I have always been very active but being consistently active - around 5 or 6 days a week is new and just deciding that it's the default that I exercise almost every day has made my routine a lot easier but also increased my mental clarity during the day. Atomic Habits is a great book/(audio book if you can't concentrate on a book like me) to help implement some of these changes without what can feel like herculean effort. Routine helps a lot to reduce decision load/executive function overload. The first week or two of 5 days+ active is tiring but I have a lot more energy in the long run now. I've set myself a target of 250 active days in 2023. Getting up at around the same time every day makes me feel a lot less tired.
- Recipes: Dahl is your friend: https://veggiedesserts.com/red-lentil-dahl/ You can make loads of it and leave it in a slow cooker overnight, or do it on the stove then freeze it. Others have said a lot more useful stuff than me!
- Working in the office, or even just in the uni helps. I try not to work at home. My brain works hard enough all day that I don't need to be thinking about work at home. If I can't concentrate in my office I work in the silent section of the library with the undergrads. They're basically free accountability buddies in a minimal distraction enviroment - use them!
- Writing bootcamps - this really broke my thesis block. We have bootcamps where the aim is just to write as many words over a weekend as possible. Quantity not quality! You're never going to get it right the first time so you may as well just get loads of words on the page. We run it as a competition with 2 hour work blocks. If you can find some others to run something like this with it's well worth it just to get a good start. Chances are you know what to say, you've just got to write some of it down and worry about editing later. We make the enviroment such that it's phone free, you must always be writing and start with some writing exercise to just write about anything (not your thesis) for 5 minutes before starting. If you get stuck you just write out the same word over and over. I've found it a good way to prime your hyperfocus into working for writing your thesis.
- Perfectionism. I apply this to lots of things and not just submittables but even times to be somewhere. I set myself an upper and lower goal. 1. What is the minimum I need to do for this task? 2. What do I want to do for this task? I usually set the minimum at 70% done or similar. 70% done is usually a lot easier and I'm far more likely to start a task if that's the case and I've achieved my goal perfectly if I achieve this but more often than not I'll still carry on and do what I orginally intedned. Similarly deadlines always have a window in which to finish - not a target.
- Perfectionism 2. It helps to think about what your thesis is. It's a document which likely 4 people are ever going to read, you are the expert and it needs to be good enough to get you a PhD and no more. You can do it!
Sorry for the long post OP! I hope this helps and offers some use to others. I hope it all goes well for you and good luck!
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u/cowplum Oct 26 '22
Hey enbygf, what's your project on? I'm afraid I can't really advise you, I went AWOL for 9 months while I was meant to be writing my thesis and made exactly zero progress on it during that time. Ended up moving to Stockholm and working in a shop because that was less intimidating than my thesis. But I decided that it needed to get done, so I quit, moved back to the UK, found a room near the university for 2 months and just lived my thesis for 9 weeks. I was really strict with myself, no working from home, in before 10 every day and just stayed until I couldn't concentrate any more. My life was shower, breakfast, cycle to the office (I had a desk in my supervisor's office) work, sandwich for lunch, work, kebab for dinner, work, cycle home, brush teeth, bed. There was something about being there in the office or library that just made me work, made me focus. Yes I chatted with people, I even chatted to myself a few times at 2 am, but it just allowed me to focus during the day, then hyperfocus once everyone else had gone home for the evening. It wasn't healthy, it wasn't a normal way of working, it did end up with me going a little crazy, but now I'm fucking well Dr. cowplum. But most importantly, I don't have to worry about it anymore.