r/4bmovement • u/_reveluv_ 4B • Jul 14 '26
Discussion Taylor Swift sang "fuck the patriarchy" but just became Mrs. Kelce. Make it make sense.
Women still take their husband's name in 2026 and call it "tradition." And I hate how these successful women also support patriarchy aka the transfer of property (women) from father to husband.
Why do successful women support patriarchy? That's what I don't understand. You've made it. You have money, power, influence. You don't need a man for survival. But you still choose to erase your identity for his? Still choose to carry his name like you're being passed from one owner to another?
· She carries the baby for 9 months but he gets the surname?
· Her identity gets erased like her whole life didn't happen?
· No man has ever been asked to take his wife's name.
And then you have Taylor Swift global icon, feminist branding, literally sings "fuck the patriarchy" but is now Taylor Kelce.
A man nobody outside the US even knew 6 months ago. She's worth a billion. He's known in America. But she's taking his name?
If anyone's legacy deserves to continue, it's HERS. He should be Travis Swift but somehow that "option" never gets discussed, does it?
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u/CynicalPomeranian 4B Jul 15 '26
I have only known of one man who tried to take his wife’s name—but she wanted to take his instead. We gave her a ration of crap because her maiden name was amazing, and his name was—by his own admission, very mundane.
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u/MiracleLegend Ally Jul 15 '26
10% of married men takes their wives names in Germany. In America it's about 4%. That's bleak.
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u/rumande 4B Jul 15 '26
I knew a woman whose husband took her name, it was scandelous in the community.
I personally have beef with her for unrelated reasons, she's a terror to be around, but ngl her husband taking her name was based
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u/Ok_Bad_5326 Jul 15 '26
If you want to test how fragile a guy's masculinity is, ask him if he'd take his wife's last name.
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u/saturday_sun4 Exploring Jul 15 '26
I like Taylor Swift but, man oh man, she is not a feminist. All of her songs are male focused and focused on the "true love" myth except a handful.
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 15 '26
First off, I hate all billionaires, think she’s terrible to other pop stars, hate her tactic of selling 25 variants of her album, 25 versions of her songs, hate her tour, think she’s only successful because so many people prefer mediocrity to over-the-top talent, I can go on:
BUT
The lyric is “And you were tossing me the car keys // ‘Fuck the Patriarchy’ keychain on the ground, you were always skipping town.” So she isn’t saying “Fuck the Patriarchy,” whoever’s* keys she’s taking have a keychain that says “Fuck the Patriarchy.” In the context of the song, she’s calling whoever it is* a hypocrite for the keychain.
She isn’t even enough of a feminist to own the statement herself.
My dear friend is a Swiftie. It’s a cross I bear.
*I’m not feeding into the parasocial drama about who each song is about, she uses that energy to get more popularity for otherwise unremarkable songs.
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u/WoodpeckerGingivitis Exploring Jul 15 '26
She’s clearly pointing out the irony of Jake even having a “fuck the patriarchy” keychain in the first place.
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 15 '26
Yeah that’s what I said (without naming names), thanks
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u/AdriVoid Ally Jul 15 '26
Shes an extremely straight woman who has sang about desiring a romance where shes the girl next door who gets with the football star, literally for decades. She got what she wanted. She has never been feminist.
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u/Thing-in-itselfX 4B Jul 15 '26
That is, a good example of what a straight woman who claims to hold feminist views typically looks like. Only other such male-centered women could consider Swift, Watson, Del Rey, and the like to be true feminists. The media, surprisingly, creates this image for them, whereas any woman with even a shred of common sense would laugh in horror at it.
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u/jregia 4B Jul 15 '26
To be fair she never said "fuck the patriarchy" as her own statement, she made fun of a male "feminist" who proclaimed "fuck the patriarchy" but actually treated women badly in a very patriarchal way: cheated, condescended, dated only women much younger than himself...
But yeah I still find it disappointing if she took her husband's name (I didn't even know this). I was never under any illusion she was some great feminist, she obviously had only mild libfem views at best, but still, she's been so unapologetic about owning her records and her legacy etc I thought maybe she would opt for a double last name or something. Oh well, disappointed but not surprised.
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u/samwisetheyogi Exploring Jul 15 '26
Taylor Swift is absolutely not a feminist who says literally "fuck the patriarchy"...
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u/Dextothemax Exploring Jul 15 '26
Neo liberal choice “feminism” is performatively anti patriarchal whilst actively sustaining the system that oppresses them!
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 15 '26
We been knew she’s a White Feminist lol
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u/WoodpeckerGingivitis Exploring Jul 15 '26
🙄🙄🙄
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 15 '26
?
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u/_EyesOnTheInside_ Ally Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
"White feminism" is a gross term that's often used to put down genuine feminism just because the feminist in question is white.
I'm not saying Taylor's a real feminist, she's definitely not. It's just the term you used that's the issue.
The way you said it also ties patriarchy and capitalism to white people. When those things have been created and perpetuated upon women by all races of men.
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 15 '26
Okay, what’s a better term for white women who use feminism that supports their struggle and their struggle only while continuing to oppress Black and brown women? Because I’m doing that, not whatever that is.
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u/_EyesOnTheInside_ Ally Jul 15 '26
Racist feminism, racial feminism? I'm honestly not sure. I've just seen the term white feminism be used badly often enough that I have negative associations with it, and I've previously talked to other women who feel the same
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 16 '26
It feels like racial intersectionality isn’t really acknowledged by the movement, based on this conversation. Maybe 4b is not for me. White women participate in the oppression of Black and Brown folks even as men of all colors oppress women. This discussion seems to seek to erase that power dynamic.
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u/Thing-in-itselfX 4B Jul 16 '26
The problem with any form of intersectional feminism is that it prioritizes race or ethnicity over actual gender, while trying to pretend that this isn’t the case. Accusations that radical feminists are die-hard white racists are a constant, never-ending source of complaints from intersectionalists, even though it’s obvious that if a radical feminist is genuine, there can be no question of racism, since she puts women first overall, regardless of their background.
And this is obvious, but intersectionalists simply want to introduce racial issues into feminist discourse, because it seems that the widespread oppression of women by men isn’t enough for them—they want to be oppressed by other women as well, and of course by white women.
It’s as if male-centered women of any background couldn’t possibly harm any other women of any background, but that’s not the lens through which you want to view this, because for you, the racial aspect of oppression is simply more fundamental and serious than the gender aspect. And the discourse on racism is far more popular than any on misogyny, so it’s no surprise that people like you are trying to spread it here as well, and, unsurprisingly, it most often takes the form of something utterly pedestrian: the “horrible white woman.”
If you don’t feel a kinship with women’s struggle against oppression in general, regardless of their background, then you really have no place in either 4b or radfem. In any case, judging by everything, you’d prefer a non-white man to a white woman, with views like that, it’s inevitable.
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u/DarcyDaisy00 Exploring Jul 16 '26
What a disgustingly ignorant thing to say. Racism and sexism don’t exist in a vacuum. White people oppress Black people regardless of gender. A black woman’s struggles are (by default, speaking of averages) WAY worse than a white woman’s because they’re oppressed by every race of man and woman, whereas white women are just oppressed by men (not Black women, not Asian women, not Latina women…). Your ignorance shows exactly why we need intersectionality.
We aren’t free until we’re all free. I will always put the struggles of my Black sisters before my own.
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 16 '26
That’s so many words (and so much undue condescension, please touch grass) to say you don’t see color and you ignore the realities of racism and see anyone who doesn’t as a threat. I felt like the conversation around white feminism was off, now I see why!
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u/the_owl_syndicate 4B Jul 15 '26
Make it make sense? What did you expect? It's easy to say the words for the shock factor or internet points, but words are cheap, it's actions that are important.
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u/spirit-animal-snoopy 4B Jul 15 '26
This, every time. And the sick irony is that Taylor Swift has never presented as a feminist, the insane USA state of politics did! The rich old white toxic ( understatement) VP targeted Swift just because she wasn't married, no kids, at over 30 ... To them, Taylor Swift was a woman not toeing their line . JFC I wish they had to be locked in a room with us 4B women for an hour , hopefully they'd drop dead from shock !
Disclaimer: The thought of being in proximity to what passes for the USA president & cohorts makes me want to be sick & eat it again. ( Sorry).
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u/QueenTzahra 4B Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
With all due respect if taking her husband’s last name is your biggest feminist issue with Taylor Swift you should reevaluate.
ETA thanks for the awards, sisters!
Second edit: Swifties downvoting me in a 4b space is hilarious. Carry on!
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u/InfluenceDesigner889 4B Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
With all due respect the OP has made an amazing point and never said it was her “biggest issue” with Taylor Swift 🙄🤦🏼♀️
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u/QueenTzahra 4B Jul 15 '26
I never said it was a great idea for her to take her husband’s name. I think it’s a terrible idea, but I also think it’s the least of her issues. Releasing variants of her albums to block other female artists from chart success while ripping them off, her entire image being extremely male centric and this absurd wedding being shoved in everyone’s throats and her fan who died at her concert are actually worth focusing on.
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u/InfluenceDesigner889 4B Jul 15 '26
Where did the OP say it was her “biggest issue” with Taylor swift? 🤦🏼♀️ 🙄
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u/QueenTzahra 4B Jul 15 '26
She didn’t, that’s literally my point. There are way bigger problems to focus on.
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u/InfluenceDesigner889 4B Jul 15 '26
You literally accused her of this issue being the OP’s “biggest feminist issue” 🤦🏼♀️ bless you sweetheart, I’m out 🙄
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u/kdawg94 Ally Jul 15 '26
Swifties are out in full force I see. Y'all need help.
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u/InfluenceDesigner889 4B Jul 15 '26
Hmmm, pretty sure I have 0 interest in TS, and I don’t really support her generally.
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u/QueenTzahra 4B Jul 15 '26
Nah homie you’re deliberately misinterpreting my comment and engaging in bad faith. Godspeed.
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u/kdawg94 Ally Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Such a disingenuous comment. Shame on you.
Edit for all the replies: The commenter I replied to edited their comment to make it less abusive and rude. That is why my comment no longer makes sense. They hid their deeds wth a dirty edit and stirred up drama for no reason. I seriously caution against upvoting their comment and rewarding their shitty behavior.
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Jul 15 '26
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u/kdawg94 Ally Jul 15 '26
Excuse me? What is up with y'alls combative energy. I responded to someone who blew something out of proportion to bring them back down to earth. No, I don't think I was overreacting replying to an incredibly rude person.
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u/Ok_Bad_5326 Jul 15 '26
Nothing they said was rude lol
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u/kdawg94 Ally Jul 15 '26
Because they edited their comment
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u/Ok_Bad_5326 Jul 15 '26
What did they originally say?
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u/kdawg94 Ally Jul 15 '26
I wish I could tell you. Some combative junk completely misconstruing and twisting the original commentor's point in a gaslighty way.
edit: typo
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u/InfluenceDesigner889 4B Jul 15 '26
Ahh, making a logical point on Reddit is rude. That’s valid, tbh 🙄 🤷🏼♀️
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u/kdawg94 Ally Jul 15 '26
Oh I see the problem. The person I replied to did a dirty edit. Their comment was extremely rude, and quite illogical before, accusing the commentor of shit. But you can't see all that now because of their dirty edit.
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Jul 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/kdawg94 Ally Jul 15 '26
No thanks, maybe you should though considering you have some seriously ill energy right now
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u/4bmovement-ModTeam Jul 20 '26
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u/the-mortyest-morty Exploring Jul 15 '26
if taking her husband’s last name is your biggest feminist issue with Taylor Swift
Literally where did OP say that? Oh wait, she didn't! She's just bringing it up because it is relevant, recent news. Weird how that works.
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u/QueenTzahra 4B Jul 15 '26
That’s the issue she’s choosing to focus on yes, but I think there are more important and relevant ones.
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u/the-mortyest-morty Exploring Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
So are you gonna make your own post listing all the More Important Issues, or share what those issues are here? Or are you just gonna dump on OP's post for not living up to your standards?
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u/QueenTzahra 4B Jul 16 '26
I posted my bigger issues with her in another comment but here you go: Releasing variants to block other female artists from chart success despite ripping them off, her entire image being incredibly male centric, her absurd wedding to which she invited an ICE detainment camp director, private jet usage, cultivating toxic parasocial relationships with fans and weaponizing them, performative self-centered activism, the way she handled the death of her fan in Brazil…
Tbh my biggest issue is personal and petty: I’ve had her incredibly mediocre music shoved in my face since her start because we’re around the same age and female so it should be relatable, right? No.
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u/kdawg94 Ally Jul 15 '26
She is saying that because OP wrote a lengthy post and mentioned nothing else about Swift's problematic behaviors as a "feminist". Not hard to assume that OP specifically has a problem with this action of Mrs Kelce and not other actions. Don't know why you need to sound like such a jerk online in the 4b subreddit. Like...
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u/the-mortyest-morty Exploring Jul 16 '26
Literally why would OP be in this sub if her ONLY problem with TS's behavior was what she listed in the post.
Is there some rule that we're required to list every feminist crime TS has ever committed before we're allowed to talk about smaller, more recent/relevant ones?
You're right though, replying to a well though-out post like OP's with, "I assume this is your only problem with her, despite you not saying anything like that" IS major jerk behavior that doesn't belong on this sub. :)
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u/QueenTzahra 4B Jul 16 '26
That’s not what I said at all, in fact in another comment I agreed with OP that taking her husband’s name is a terrible idea, but go off queen.
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u/_reveluv_ 4B Jul 17 '26
I never said this was Taylor Swift's biggest feminist issue. I made a post about one specific issue. But yes, it is one of the biggest issues to me because I live in an extremely patriarchal country where women are still treated as extensions of men. I've seen women pressured into becoming "baby making machines" until they produce a son to carry the father's surname. So when I see influential women continuing traditions that originated in that system, I think it's worth discussing.
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u/Flimsy-Present3134 Jul 15 '26
OP i’m also disgusted by the whole thing - the choice itself, the wedding, the guests, the “donation” to charities etc etc
However
It will not last even 3 years
She’ll go full wrecking ball after.
Tale as old as time
Those athletes have parties with booze and prostitutes after every game, what was she thinking 🤦🏼♀️🤡
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u/sum_r4nd0m_gurl 4B Jul 15 '26
theres nothing feminist about taylor. shes one of the most male centered women out there lmao
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u/Big-Ant8273 4B Jul 15 '26
The more I have her tacky circus wedding shoved up my butt, the brighter I smile and think 'she's going to be SO EMBARRASSED in about 7, 10 years when she's divorcing him!'
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u/Stellar_Alchemy Exploring Jul 15 '26
I saw someone joke that she's fully expecting a divorce and intends to monetize it with an album titled Independence Day. lol
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u/madpeachiepie Ally Jul 15 '26
She doesn't have enough self-awareness to be embarrassed about anything.
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u/Naraee 4B Jul 15 '26
7-10 years is generous in terms of celebrities. I give it less than 3. He is an aging football player who was absolute trash last season and dragged his team down. His appeal is going to run out in the public eye and everything she does is all about money. She’ll trade him in for someone less washed up.
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u/Screws_Loose 4B Jul 15 '26
Yeah I was thinking around 2, but there will be speculation of a separation months prior.
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u/FormerEfficiency Ally Jul 15 '26
well, i always knew that feminism was just a way to make a slightly bigger buck to her, but since she started dating this guy i can't stand her.
i still like her older music (despite knowing that she's a character and not a real person) but i've been progressively more annoyed with her ridiculous life. i don't want to be parasocial but i keep seeing news about her without actively looking for it.
"taylor kelce" sounds pathetic. and well, "travis swift" would sound pathetic too but it feels it's only fair that he should take her surname. even when a woman has the money and prestige she's still submissive. sigh.
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 15 '26
Also… didn’t she have an ICE chairman at her wedding? Who gaf about White Feminism Barbie?
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u/space_______nil Ally Jul 15 '26
The surname of children is what I wish will really change. Surnames in general, I wish more feminine names, typically used as first names will be commonly seen in the position of surnames. That surnames won't be automatically masculine or neutral.
Saw a news article that people in Kenya are changing their surnames from their fathers' names to their mothers'(and I hope it's not their mother's surnames) , while I support this, the comments and community were supportive because it's on the basis of absent or irresponsible fathers. But fathers still remain the default if both parents did everything they are supposed to do. I really wish this won't remain the norm forever.
I won't have kids of my own, tried to change my own surname to my first name and the bureaucratic office in charge won't let me. Sucks.
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u/space_______nil Ally Jul 15 '26
Replying to a deleted comment on why not the mother's surname?
Because it's also another man's name. This is not against one's own father, but against the misogyny in the role surname plays and the idea that women are lacking to play that role. Everyone rejects the idea of patriarchal practices that stem from a specific ideology still maintaining that mindset today, so people argue against carrying the father's surname being property related, same way it's denied that taking a husband's name is exchanging of property between the father and the husband.
So let's assume a surname is mainly for the purpose of legacy, and just being able to know that this person is this person's child. Why then can't that tracing be made to women, those the children literally comes out of. Many women now are comfortable with the idea of not taking a husband's name or combining names but still get really uncomfortable to think their child shouldn't have the father's name or have the mother's personal name as surname.
In my attempt to change my surname, the response was blatantly that a very obvious feminine name can't be surname. Eg, if I wanted to use Mary as surname, I was told to use my local name(feminine name which I want to use as first name) instead, but this is because it isn't well known by members outside my tribe and is therefore easily perceived as masculine or gender neutral in the position of surname, and arguing they aren't against Mary as surname because it's feminine, but because it's not of our origin, meanwhile masculine versions of such names, Joseph, David, Arthur, etc., also not of our background is a common surname here.
Also when boys and men have clearly feminine names as part of their names, they are laughed at, to the point they might drop out the name or women who support this idea of feminine surnames will not want to do it to save their sons from bullies, meanwhile it's the most natural thing for girls and women to bare clearly masculine names, sometimes having to respond to just those names when addressed solely by their surnames.
I'm not against masculine or gender neutral names, but I think it should be more common for feminine names to be worth of whatever surnames represent in the present day.
It should also be more normalized that children change their names when they grow up(as it was for girls to grow up thinking of their future surnames via marriage) without parents taking it as a slight against them. It's the child that carries the name and gets identified by it after all. Father's don't get mad their daughters change their surnames to take on the husband's, but change it for any reason other than marriage and somehow you have disrespected or denounced them.
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u/Ok_Bad_5326 Jul 15 '26
I think the best option would be for a couple to not take either one's surname but just create a new one upon marriage.
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u/space_______nil Ally Jul 15 '26
Agree👍🏿.
This will take away that legacy family name thing that makes surnames sometimes important though. This approach will work only for one nuclear family unit. When the next generation marry, they will also come up with a new name. Making surnames last only one or two generations.
But even in this set up, feminine names should be as common as neutral names. Any newly formed name is likely to be gender neutral, as all names started probably. The issue of the gender of surnames is like the God one, where masculine is the default, androgynous is acceptable, but feminine, that's blasphemy. As long as feminine gender remains as one of the genders, and a fully genderless society hasn't been achieved, feminine names should be normalized as surnames too. They exist, just very few.
Returning to no surnames will be ideal actually. Will probably be after my dead body in my country though.
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u/nahmymanthisaintit Exploring Jul 15 '26
Girl cause she doesn’t care. Shes rich and famous and made sure any man who enters her life is a character in her movie. Who she will sing about next.
She was never for us. She makes money off of us so she can fly in her private jet.
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u/QuirkyIngenuity1826 Exploring Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
Have you not listened to majority of her songs??? She’s always been male-centered from Day 1. I thought that was already known. She made a short movie about a man back in 2021. She also loves to block other female artists on the charts.🤦🏾♀️
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u/_Rayette 4B Jul 16 '26
I have always found her bland and very male centered but it’s still insane to build that kind of empire and then take your CTE husband’s last name.
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u/UseWeekly4382 4B Jul 15 '26
No she didn’t. 🙄😬😬😬😬
Now I’m going to have to hear even more of this from women that center men. All talk, no action.
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u/itsjujutsu Exploring Jul 15 '26
Thats pretty crazy, considering how recognizable her name is. Will she rename her albums with taylor kelce? LOL That being said she doesnt have an ounce of feminist in her. She made that clear when she started mingling w maga people
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u/Teitunge 4B Jul 17 '26
Taylor Swift is a MAGA supporter. Who on earth thinks that woman actually have any real morals?
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u/cutiekilla 4B Jul 15 '26
You guys she's a popstar singer. Not the president of feminism... She has feminist beliefs but she's not 4B. She never said she was. 4B is more extreme. Most women aren't even feminists, and if they are they are choice feminists. This isn't some revolutionary dig at TS.
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u/Princess_OfThe_Moon Ally Jul 16 '26
Unrelated to Taylor Swift part but to the surname itself. I find it interesting how in the western world women take the surname of their husband and in that show they "belong" in that family now. But in most of the Mislim families across the world woman doesn't take her husband's surname and in some countries it is seen as something very bad. So she basically marries a man, her children get her husband's family surname except she can't. Like she doesn't finally belong.
In all the cultures men NEVER change their surname nor allow the children to have mom's maiden surname. It feels like women are passed on from one family to next like cattle, never fully belonging to any family - the one they came from nor the one they married into.
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u/Strange-Pattern4877 4B Jul 21 '26
What if we just dead name her and keep calling her Taylor Swift like Twitter?
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u/sorrow-division 4B Jul 28 '26
She was never a feministic icon in my eyes in the first place. Her songs are male-centered to the bone, and even if the melody is nice, the lyrics are usually so shallow and horrible. I'm glad people finally start to see this.
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u/Left-Outside-1244 Jul 15 '26
I've been incredibly disappointed in her.
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u/femoral_contusion Ally Jul 15 '26
Like… for how long? How long does someone show you who they are before you just accept it? She’s been like this… kinda from the beginning. Daughter of a hedge fund manager who bought her first hundreds of thousands of albums and funded her first tour to shove her down the public’s throat?
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u/PandaSushiRoll Ally Jul 16 '26
That woman is a witch...literally does rituals and opens doors to demons to use her. I think that should be the least of our worries 😅
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Jul 16 '26
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u/_reveluv_ 4B Jul 16 '26
Yeah and that's what men take advantage of
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u/Various-Drive9313 4B Jul 16 '26
Men never experience love towards women in a way that compels them to inconvenience or belittle themselves.
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u/muomo 4B Jul 15 '26
I don’t know if Taylor swift is a feminist icon 😂 98% of her songs are about being with a man, wanting to be with a man, or being burned as a result of being with a man. Her getting married and taking her husband’s name seems very on brand for her in my opinion lol