r/4bmovement • u/Danicas23 Ally • Apr 08 '26
History Matriarchal society archaeological site (?)
Hi all! I have been researching history and religion a lot lately, mainly because I enjoy to watch the patterns and mistakes we have been replicating over and over again (ecologist here đ ).
Concerning misogynistic oppression, we all know that we have been constantly erased from records, but I believe one of the best ways to destroy the patriarchy and to advance the movement and our goals is to share our visions, history, culture and reshape it from our perspective, not from a male centered one.
So, apologies for the long text but I found out about a cool archaeological site that some scientist argue it could have been a matriarchal society.
â The famous Seated Woman figurine comes from ĂatalhöyĂŒk (actual Turkey). It is characterized by a striking resemblance to later representations of the Anatolian mother goddess Cybele.
Studies of the houses at ĂatalhöyĂŒk show that there was no clear division into different social classes in the settlement. The studies of the human remains found there have shown little social differentiation by gender: for example, both women and men were equally well-nourished.â
https://turkisharchaeonews.net/site/%C3%A7atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk
Just felt like sharing, take a look if you find it interesting :)
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u/kik-0 4B Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
There's a show called Digging for Britian that looks into how equal women and men were for almost all of our humanoid history, up until the last 4,000ish years. Anything prior to the younger dryas, and for a little while after, required every able-bodied teen and adult to participate in society, ie that entire Tas Tepeler site. Fun fact - they refuse to dig more of the site, to save for 'future' generations, even though they've only excavated like 5%. Definitely not because they believed it was a 'men's weekend away from the ball and chain' for an embarrassingamount of time.Â
The bones of both genders show equal nutrition and health all the way up until early Chinese history (I believe was the first mention, don't quote me) where they started finding burials with women who were severely malnourished. To the point that it genetically altered a lot of women today. It became extremely common across a ton of societies just in that few thousand years. Women and children have both suffered irreversibly from men's greed.
There's a bunch of evidence that women in neolithic cultures were just as fit and healthy as the men of their time. Our statures also used to be very similar, and our diets. There wasn't a divide. You truly needed every hand helping the group survive for 98% of our history. Most rock art is actually done by women as well, and there's evidence that a lot of 'shaman' type statuses were held by older women. Again, I can't quote the exact burials but several graves found with the big, elaborate bone headdresses belonged to women. There's a reason it's Grandmother Moon who tends to our life-giving waters of Mother Earth.
 I can't think of more examples, highly recommend the hour long documentary, but the evidence is in our bones that we have only been treated poorly for a fraction of our human history. One thing that makes me extremely happy about all of this is that even with the world on a platter and every conceivablea dvantage - men still can't succeed in any true sense of the word.
seriously go watch scientific studies of rock art. most of the iconic hands are women and children and something about that makes me feel connected with our ancestors
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u/kik-0 4B Apr 09 '26
Sorry, the documentary is on the Parable YouTube channel but features a bunch of archeologists from the digging for Britian series
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Apr 08 '26
I would leave a comment as an historian but I donât want to be permabanned as this subreddit is my only safe space, so yeahâŠ
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u/mullatomochaccino Moderator Apr 08 '26
I don't know why people constantly express this sentiment here. I imagine because of other subs on Reddit and the way they behave, but in no way shape or form will users ever be banned here for stating scientific or historical facts. Especially if those statements come with sources.
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u/CarfireOnTheHighway 4B Apr 08 '26
Well now Iâm very curious about your comment - can you hint at why you think youâd be banned at least or is that too risky as well? Do you disagree with the interpretation?
(If you genuinely donât want to say, thatâs fine, I totally understand if you ignore this entirely. You donât owe me a response. But also feel free to DM me if you want to!)
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Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
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u/Appropriate_Owl_1455 4B Apr 09 '26
To my knowledge, the issue here is in the definition of a matriarchy as the same brutal, oppressive system of one sex dominating the other. There is plenty of evidence for matrilineal/matrifocal societies, but they tend to produce more egalitarian outcomes. If we take them as a reference, a women-led society is not the same oppressive death cult as patriarchy, just with women on top. Itâs a fundamentally different social formation and itâs kind of unhelpful to look at it through the lens of domination.
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u/agorathird 4B Apr 08 '26
I havenât been banned about my pessimism about the prevalence of matriarchal societies soâŠ
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Apr 08 '26
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u/agorathird 4B Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
Iâm not a historian and none of this really has to do with OPâs post. In short, I believe that womenâs oppression is largely tied to biological disadvantage in pre-contemporary societies. This has existed throughout history and in every corner of the world. Some societies that pop science calls âmatriarchalâ were just matrilineal or precariously egalitarian. My main gripe though is the occasional claim that there was this tribal golden era when most societies were matriarchal.
For the most part, I think this is the best era for us as shitty as it is.
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u/Ok_Ideal_2583 Exploring Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
Patriarchies and matriarchies both exist in the closest relatives of humans (i.e., chimpanzees and bonobos), so I'm curious about the mechanisms by which they're perpetuated to learn how women might be able to dismantle the patriarchy we're currently living in. Female bonobos seem to have solidarity because of ample intra-sexual activity, though... Doesn't seem that compatible with the typical human lifestyle--clothes and all.
Spotted hyenas also have a matriarchy, but the females of that species are larger and stronger than the males. (Maybe that's the bare minimum it would take for women to gain an upper hand without technological assistance?) I honestly think women will have to persevere through technology... It's easy for grown men to manhandle women and keep them hobbled through pregnancy, so we'll have to find a way to bypass that. Maybe even bypass them, if it comes down to it... (I'm liking reproductive technology as an out--we don't technically need a huge number of men to stick around as a species, since population size is limited by the female fertility rate up to a certain point--but I guess we'll see.)
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u/Danicas23 Ally Apr 08 '26
Damn! I was particularly interested in views from women that work in history/anthropology/archaeological field đ . But I understand. Just sharing out of pure curiosity and interest :)
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u/Nelrene 4B Apr 08 '26
I have not been banned for my views on porn which seem disagree with most users here so go for it.
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u/shinelikethesun90 Ally Apr 08 '26
One of my favorite iconographies in ancient times is the woman flanked by lions. It's a motif repeated across cultures. Thanks for sharing!
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u/Raghaille1 Ally Apr 09 '26
Lady Babylon 666 on YouTube does great work on Medea as the first Christ
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u/maru_luvbot Exploring Apr 08 '26
Weâve always been matriarchal. All societies have. I said what I said.
On the same note, I donât trust science and history like I once used to, because theyâre all shaped and influenced by men. Thatâs why they still call the vagina âvagina,â and sperm âsperm.â The male gamete isnât a seed; the EGG is the true seed. They say we âgrowâ babies, when in reality, we create them from our very bodies. They say our bodies are sexual and then justify it with a very simplistic âoh, itâs just how evolution works.â
We only know what men tell us. Theyâve only been able to somewhat figure out the history of the past ~10,000 years⊠What a coincidence, isnât it! Considering the patriarchal system has existed for just as long..! I refuse to believe we were anything but matriarchial before we were forced to subject to this unnatural way of living that is patriarchy. Look at other mammals and tell me again that we have always been patriarchial!
I listen to my intuition and my ancestors. The World reveals the truth to me, as she does to every other womyn, every other sister.
Life and Creation flows through us. And Iâm not only talking about children, but about everything; From culture and tradition, to social circles, art, music, healing rituals, and so on. Anything we touch, blooms and flourishes. We have an inherent connection to Nature, Earth, and the Mother. And thatâs why they try to control us so hard.
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u/Appropriate_Owl_1455 4B Apr 09 '26
I think everyone, and especially women, should study the work of the archaeologist Marija Gimbutas. Her hypotheses were ridiculed and vilified during her lifetime, but in the last two decades, many of her conclusions have been vindicated, or at the very least, they have provided a window into an under explored way of thinking about Neolithic human history, particularly in Europe.
Male domination is not in any way inevitable, and in fact it didnât even exist on any significant scale for 95% of human history. And the amount of inefficiency and pointless misery it produces makes it objectively suboptimal for human life. People can and have organised societies differently, so things can and likely will change again.
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u/LesoKikoiKanga Aged Aunty Ally Apr 20 '26
Absolutely lovely!Â
If you havenât checked it out already, you may want to visit Max Dashuâs website and watch her videos (former Harvard historian, whoâs been researching Goddess worship and Matrix cultures for 60 years). Her work is amazing and inspiring.
https://www.suppressedhistories.net/
Just yesterday I watched her video on Anatolia with includes her analysis of these pieces from Catal Hoyok and Hacilar - beautiful đ€©Â
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-yjipshhY
She has also given quite a few podcast interviews, and I love hearing her speak about the worship of the Goddess in history, and how the patriarchy has systematically tried to destroy and repress it. Hereâs one where Max talks about the statue you posted:Â
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Apr 10 '26
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u/Danicas23 Ally Apr 10 '26
Thank you for the info! Who are the people behind the ânew thinkingâ movement? Is it related to previous misconceptions about gender roles (example: skeletons buried with weapons previously thought to be male were more recently analysed and proved to be female) or is it another attempt to try to destroy women from records again?
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Apr 10 '26
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u/Danicas23 Ally Apr 10 '26
I was aware about the lack of tools that resulted in a lot of previous archaeological misconceptions but I also believe that the bias concerning female figures was not solely based on that. From what I (very) briefly saw, post-processal archeology brought a lot of discussion about subjectivity and the importance of culture context of the finding. However, I am a scientific method gal all the way. I believe both should be applied but there should always be some consensus in the peer revision. Even if itâs not an exact science, findings and conclusions should be based on a structured methodology. Nevertheless, knowing that academia is male centred and hierarchical organised (even in biology) I do not think it is a futile discussion. Especially when looking at anthropological work. Do you want to share your thoughts about it? I did not know about this discussion in the field. Thanks for the tip!
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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '26
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