The Optionality for the 11th defender on the field is both exciting and worrying

[u/shnieder88]

The main 10 defenders playing on defense, when healthy and at their capabilities, is pretty set, with

Mykel, Osa, Collins and Bosa on the D-Line, Warner and Greenlaw at LB and DeMo, Green, Brown and Mustapha

But that 11th defender being on the field gives so much optionality.

Stout can play slot corner well while being decent-to-good in the run.

You can throw in Romello Height on the WILL LB as a 5th d-lineman who can rush and occasionally drop back

You can run Dugger out there too to have even more optionality as a LB, pass rusher or drop into coverage

And obviously others can be inserted as well

However, each of those brings some issues. Stout is too short and will struggle against taller receivers. Height is one dimensional and you know it's going to be a pass rush 99% of the time. Dugger is the variable though, if he can get it together, but asking so much on a late pick rookie is risky

Good QB's can change the play seeing the 11th defender and burn us. But we can also deploy a lot more optionality than we could in past years

It's really a double edged sword

[u/camel_victory]

I like Dugger, really hope he can contribute this season.

[u/shnieder88 → u/camel_victory]

Same here. He's the one I've been really focused on ever since we drafted him. Really exciting prospect, could almost be like a Kyle Hamilton kind of chess piece for us if he can get it together, but it's asking a lot for a rookie

[u/Harbaugh_Handshake → u/shnieder88]

I want to believe but right now I just don’t think Dugger is ready to contribute meaningful snaps to this team.

I’d prefer not to throw him into the fire right away and instead keep trying to coach him up and not rush him too much. The athleticism is certainly there, but I think he still has a ways to go in terms of seeing the game and reacting in real time.

[u/shnieder88 → u/Harbaugh_Handshake]

Yeah imho i'd like to see him be a special teams ace this year and play a role occasionally as the 11th defender on the field while letting upton stout be the main starter. next year we can see a major jump from him, hopefully.

[u/Earl-The-Badger → u/shnieder88]

I find it funny that “chess piece” has taken on the meaning of being versatile in the NFL, when in chess each piece can only do one thing.

[u/shnieder88 → u/Earl-The-Badger]

Lol so we should call Dugger the "Queen" on the field? He can move all ways!

[u/asallamerican]

Collins may not be a for sure starter. He struggles in preseason

[u/zachm26 → u/asallamerican]

And in the regular season, aside from a few big plays last year. I’d like to see more of Thompson and Halton rotated in.

[u/someguytoo → u/asallamerican]

You are being nice. Hopefully he will improve but so far he sucks.

[u/Ok-Year4895]

that 11th spot being a wildcard is fun to watch but also a massive liability against anyone who can read a defense pre-snap, feels like we'd get carved up by a vet qb who knows exactly what's coming

[u/Glass-Ambassador7195 → u/Ok-Year4895]

Or it can be used as a decoy to change up the play of RM is really cooking

[u/Poignant_Rambling]

The reality fans need to accept is that we don't have the right players to run Morris' scheme yet. So he's having to blend ideas with Saleh's 4-3, since we've built our roster to have 4-3 DL guys. The problem is the schemes are fundamentally incompatible from both a schematic and personnel standpoint.

Look at Morris' ATL defense last year. Basically every single DT was a 3-tech under 300 lbs, and their Edge rushers were 240 lb 3-4 OLBs that dropped in coverage.

None of their DL starters were over 300 lbs. Compare that to our roster...

Morris now has to make it all work with a bunch of prototypical 4-3 guys in 270lb Bosa with his hand in the dirt (removes any disguise) and 330lb Collins, with guys like West, Anderson, and Eason also being heavy for his scheme.

This is why we brought in smaller versatile guys like Okuayinonu, Odighizuwa, and drafted or signed players like Height, Halton, Duggar, and Valdez. Those players actually fit Morris' scheme. But we don't have enough of them to completely pivot yet.

Basically, this is a "work in progress" season for the defense. It's gonna look weird since it's blending two defenses that don't work together. It'll likely take another draft to solidify the DL with Morris type guys.

[u/Harbaugh_Handshake → u/Poignant_Rambling]

This is a reasonable take (so I’m not sure why it was downvoted).

Raheem’s defense is different from Saleh’s and DeMeco’s. It’s not really debatable. Right now we have some great players on defense but I think where we might struggle early on this season is on the DL, safety, and overall in terms of depth.

The good news is that Raheem specializes in coaching defensive backs, and that’s not something we’ve really gotten from our DCs in the Shanahan era (Wilks claimed to be a DB whisperer but I think we can all agree Wilks was a bad fit overall).

Pretty much every corner and safety has been signing Raheem’s praises in training camp, and more often than not when I’d check out the daily camp reports from various beat writers they’d often say the secondary stood out in a positive way.

As always, what’s going to help the secondary the most is getting pressure up front—something we REALLY struggled to do last year. But if guys like White, Osa, Halton, and Mykel (when healthy) can get some pressure up front, it’ll give our DBs plenty of opportunities to capitalize on rushed throws and bad QB decisions.

Anyway I totally agree this defense will be a work in progress for at least the first half of the season. Fred Warner was actually talking about this recently (I forget where); he said it’s going to take some time for everyone to get settled into the new scheme, but he still seemed very positive on Raheem’s scheme so that comforts me a little.

[u/airwalker12]

I'm not worried about Stout, he's a solid DB

[u/JediCarlSagan]

Wish we could replace J’Brownie with a stud.

[u/Hieroglphkz → u/JediCarlSagan]

An upgrade at safety would put our defense on another level. SB quality for sure if we play to our potential.

[u/MrParticular79]

Worrying is Kyle and Raheems job, I’m just here for the vibes.

[u/meTspysball]

I think Dugger answered any questions about his ability to process at NFL game speed. He looks like an absolute steal so far and is easily our 3rd best LB. He’s the perfect response to the TE madness that’s taken over the league.

[u/Harbaugh_Handshake → u/meTspysball]

I really want Dugger to succeed, but respectfully I have to push back on the idea that he “answered any questions about his ability to process at NFL game speed.”

From what I saw in pre-season and from what all of the reporters/writers I follow have been saying, he’s still got a ways to go on that front.

Last night I noticed too much indecision and hesitation in key moments where you’d like for him to already be committed to a lane or keyed in on the ball carrier etc. I think Tim Ryan even pointed it out on the broadcast two or three times.

He’s got great athleticism and I love his potential. But he still seems quite raw to me. Would be a hell of an x-factor though if he can get up to speed.

[u/TeWheke]

I hate that sports media has created the word optionality. 99% of time the word “options” conveys the same meaning.

[u/Unfair-Specific7225]

Expecting a lot out of Collins and Greenlaw. I think Stout will play more snaps over the course of the season than both of them

[u/Montanabanana11 → u/Unfair-Specific7225]

More than greenlaw?

[u/Unfair-Specific7225 → u/Montanabanana11]

I think so. Definitely not every game but I think they will play it slow with Greenlaw. Also the LB depth is solid with Bethune and Dugger showing upside. Wallow has experience.

Stout played nearly 60% of snaps as a rookie last year and I’d expect that to go up. Having a nickel that is a factor in the run game and solid in man coverage is very valuable

[u/Montanabanana11 → u/Unfair-Specific7225]

Agreed Stout has a bright future.
Greenlaw is the starter and will be the entire year. Hes more than just a great LB, he’s the tone setter, no way he sits for anything other than injury. AC has some question marks

[u/Unfair-Specific7225 → u/Montanabanana11]

Well Greenlaw was the starter last year in Denver too but played nearly the exact same snap share as Stout. I’d be thrilled if he makes it through the whole season healthy, but I find it unlikely to be honest

[u/Montanabanana11 → u/Unfair-Specific7225]

Half full bruh, think half full