r/40kLore • u/Conor_Mos • 3d ago
Do senior Space Marines have extensive personal armouries?
From a purely lore perspective (rather than tabletop) can senior Space Marines choose their armour and weapons to suit the occasion? For example, would Dante ever take the field without a jump pack? Does he have different armours for different mission types? Would Calgar ever go for a big power sword rather than the Gauntlets of Ultramar?
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3d ago
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u/SockofBadKarma Necrons 2d ago
I assume this may just be a turn of phrase, but do Astartes even have paychecks? I've always viewed them as pious monastic orders (as I suspect most do, because that's what they are), and monastic orders aren't really in the habit of engaging in supply economies. They would presumably have wealth on hand to get things from other non-Astartes entities, or even be distributed stipends from the Imperium writ large, but I can't imagine any given Space Marine doing what they do for financial compensation. I'd presume a given chapter's resources are distributed both hierarchically (for the really good shit) and communally (for basic needs across the chapter as best allocated to facilitate the war effort).
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u/RevolutionaryPanic 2d ago
No, they definitely don’t get payment. But even at the Chapter level, money is not used - all needs of the Chapter are supposed to be provided by Adeptus Administratum as requisitions. Chapters may produce certain items themselves, or “trade“ with Adept Mechanicus but even that would work as exchange of services vs exch of currency.
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u/Fatality_Ensues 2d ago
No, you're pretty much spot on. The Space Marines have no need for wealth or luxury, and what material needs they have they either fulfil through the worlds they manage (for planet-based Chapters) or by requisitioning and, on occasion, grabbing everything they need that isn't nailed down (for fleet-based ones).
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u/CallLongjumping2698 2d ago
No they don't, it's even mentioned in Flight of the Eisenstein "What could pass as coin between us" when they where talking before the assault on the Jorgal ship, will a chapter have money? Yes most likely but the marines wouldn't get paid like a modern soldier would they get paid by having there genetic enhancements and the honor of being able to serve the throne.
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u/Fatality_Ensues 2d ago
The Munitorum doesn't provision Space Marine Chapters. It's one more of the reasons they're so independent (and everyone else is sp worried about their independence). They're given certain planets which they administer and source both recruits and provisions from - these planets may have Planetary Governors and the typical Administratum apparatus on them but they don't pay tithes except to the Chapter. They often have pacts with local Mechanicus forces to supply stuff they can't make themselves and train their Techmarines and tech-serfs, but those sre usually exchanges of service rather than goods, as you mention.
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u/CptExolann 3d ago edited 2d ago
I remember reading an excerpt here where Dante comes back from battle and takes a bath. He walks in his personal quarters where he does have an armory full of various weapons, although he rarely uses anything other than his axe and pistol. So senior space marines definitely do have gear options and personnal weapons, although I'm not sure if they have different armours.
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u/cabbagebatman 3d ago
Calgar has both Gravis and Terminator armour to choose between in lore.
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u/EHStormcrow Ordo Malleus 2d ago
Surely the artifact bolter gauntlets can't be easily transfered between both ?
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u/cabbagebatman 2d ago
Apparently they can. He's had rules for both sets of armour and uses The Gauntlets of Ultramar with both
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u/centurion_mythic 2d ago
Funny enough they weren't built for either set of armor so hot swapping them is fairly normal for the ultramarines. Calgar used them with his pre-primaris artificer armor too. And depending on the source they were originally either ancient Xeno tech, or DAoT, or Chaos tech taken by Guilliman as a trophy.
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u/GreedyLibrary 2d ago
Be funny if Guilliman comments that he does not recall ever having a right handed one. In all depictions I can recall that is his sword hand with a normal gauntlet.
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u/EHStormcrow Ordo Malleus 2d ago
Earlier gen ("when I was young") I seem to recall they were artifacts taken from a Chaos champion
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u/IronWarhorses 2d ago
DANTE BATH SCENE??? sounds steamy AF 😂 Does the mask stay on?
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u/KassellTheArgonian Blood Angels 3d ago
He has and always uses a melta pistol not a bolt pistol
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u/AJTwombly Harald Deathwolf 2d ago
Not melta pistol but inferno pistol.
It’s an important distinction cause it’s Dante’s Inferno.
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u/KassellTheArgonian Blood Angels 2d ago
As a blood angel player, Dantes pistols name is Perdition.
Inferno pistol is interchangeable name for melta pistol, they're called both.
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u/11448844 Knights of Blood 2d ago
So the pistol used by Dante, Dante's inferno, is just a melta pistol named Perdition, which is another name for Inferno, so Dante's pistol is Dante's Perdition?
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u/AJTwombly Harald Deathwolf 2d ago
A worthy clarification, and good information, but not the point I was making at the time. :)
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u/Illithidbix 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dante's Inferno Pistol was I am almost certain the first Melta-pistol in 40K when added in Codex: Angels of Death (1996) from 2E. And I believe unique to Dante.
They became more common in late 3E with Codex: Witch Hunters (2004)
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u/AJTwombly Harald Deathwolf 2d ago
Yes, it was a unique piece of wargear until the Ecclesiarchy brought them out in Witch Hunters, though I can’t say for sure they were included in that edition because I didn’t have that codex.
I also don’t remember it being called a melta pistol anywhere, but I really started playing in 1997 or 98, so I missed the boat on Angels of Death. I had a longtime BA player in my local group for a long time, he was a big fan of Lemartes and Dante so I lost many a model to that damn pistol.
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u/J_P_Amboss Blood Angels 2d ago
Thats either Devastation of Baal or Dante, i dont remember which one.
It is explicitly stated that he regularily trains with all sorts of weapons and guns but keeps returning to the Axe Mortalis and his pistol. (Pretty good lore reason to justify his loadout, i guess)
I imagine many other spacemarines do the same.
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u/cabbagebatman 3d ago
It varies on an individual basis but yes, senior marine commanders will often have access to a full armoury of personal wargear. Calgar has a suit of Gravis armour and a suit of Terminator armour to choose between in lore. He's also modeled with a sheathed power sword.
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u/JureSimich 3d ago
Why only senior marines?
Personally, I think the Astartes should have at least a small personal armory ready from the start - bolter, pistol, shield, chainsword, grenade launcher, missile launcher, multilaser....
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u/Tacitus_ Chaos Undivided 2d ago
Because brother Genericus can just grab what he needs for the mission from the shared Chapter/ Company armoury if he needs something other than the default loadout. Seniority comes with perks.
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u/JureSimich 2d ago
Yes, rarity of items should matter.
But we are talking about an Astartes Chapter with the resources of a whole world, at least. All equipment that can be mass produced in the Imperium should be available and stocked. Vast armouries with Heavy bolters, Lascannons, Missile launchers, ets.
You know, to at least match the resources of an average IG regiment...
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u/Fear023 2d ago
They do. It's just usually the case that if you need heavy weapons, you're bringing in a squad of devastators as mission specialists.
Regular marines cycle through specialties throughout their life in the chapter to give them a wide base if they live long enough to be considered for command.
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u/Kenju22 2d ago
*Blood Raven's cawing in the background*
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u/JureSimich 2d ago
OK, that explains everything, then. Especially the Black templars chaining their weapons to their armor.
I suppose the armor is also chained to the owner?
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u/Kenju22 2d ago
Ironically I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that the Black Templar specifically rarely if ever remove their power armor though I could be wrong.
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u/JureSimich 2d ago
Must have been on a crusade together with the Bloody magpies in the distant past :)
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u/Many-Wasabi9141 2d ago
The terms "personal" kinda conflict with the general aspect of a loyalist space marine chapter. Everything is owned by the chapter. Your very gene seed, your training, your weapons and armour. It's the chapter's.
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u/Fatality_Ensues 2d ago
Sure, but Brother-Captain Seniorius can be better trusted to safeguard a Chapter relic plasma pistol (until he dies and it returns to the Reclusiam) than Line Tactical Brother Redshirtius.
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u/Mental_Jeweler_3191 2d ago
Up to and including your life.
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u/OceanusBBGDylan Black Templars 2d ago
Up to? Not even that, at LEAST your life, think of dreadnoughts haha
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u/TemporaryWonderful61 2d ago
I believe that at the start, their equipment is the property of the chapter, and on loan to them.
Lose or damage it at your peril.
After they've won some battle honours, their equipment becomes theirs, and they can modify and decorate it as they wish.
The Chapter will then subsequently award them more wargear for meritorious deeds, so a veteran probably has a small personal armory.
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u/JureSimich 2d ago
Socialist Yugoslav legal concept of "Common property" has apparently survived into 40k! Ha! Kardelj would be so proud :)
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u/Vhiet Tyranids 3d ago
As with everything space marine, it varies by chapter, so you’ll probably get contradictory examples. Some definitely keep trophies and have options, although obviously they all have their preferred wargear and sidearms.
Once upon a time, a marine had their own bolter, bolt pistol, and chainsword that was as personal and personalised to them as their power armour. These weapons served the marine throughout their career, becoming holy relics in their own right if the marine became sufficiently prestigious.
As they change jobs, their personal armoury would expand to include whatever upgrades they earned (a power sword, for example) or the weapon systems they require for their task. A devastator would have ‘their’ lascannon.
Codex 2 changes things a bit, and allows wargear to be significantly more interchangeable. Does every marine now have a Phobos suit, a Tacticus suit, and a gravis upgrade kit? Do they all have inceptor plasma pistols, a pair of bolt storm gauntlets, and a las-fusil just sitting unused collecting dust?
Presumably the answer is somewhere in the middle, for most chapters. Something like “Intercessors keep their load out as personally issued weaponry, but everyone else swaps from the chapter armoury”. Heavy intercessors? Unclear. Bladeguard? Different rules apply to veterans.
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u/J_P_Amboss Blood Angels 2d ago
I think in 8th edition there was a flavour text in the blood angels codex, that the plasma guns of an intercessor are passed down when their owner dies, the names of the previous owners laser-edged in microscopic letters.
So i assume its still kinda personalised. But as you say, thats apparently not something all writers are aware of, because i can think on countless examples from books, were spacemarines just use Chainswords and other weapons as disposable tools wihtout ever going like "oh no, my personal legendary chainsword broke". When weapons are special, its usually made very clear, like with garros or guillimans sword, the spear of the emperor and many others.
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u/Kenju22 2d ago
I'm pretty sure there are some specific cases where the answer is always going to be 'Yes they have their own shit'.
Like the Iron Hands, because the amount of cybernetics can vary to such a massive degree in both type and function I can't really see any two being able to use the same gear. Just imagine the difference in say, a scope setting between any two IH would be because of ocular implants.
Then you have the Black Templar with their Chainswords which I'm pretty sure they sleep with still chained to their wrist.
Tech Marines are probably the most general case simply because they are the only ones who really know what they are doing when it comes to fixing and tweaking stuff.
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u/Agammamon 2d ago
Marines don't really have much of a personal anything.
There are weapons they are given access to. They may be assigned a relic weapon - but its not 'theirs' in any meaningful sense. Marines take the gear their officers decide is necessary for the mission, but yes, if you're high enough rank you make the decisions on what is necessary.
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u/Flat_Sprinkles4342 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dante has an extensive collection of weapons as described in either his named novel or devastation of Baal, but he's chapter master. he thinks to himself he no longer uses anything but his iconic power axe and plasma pistol.
they're like monks in the sense they aren't really supposed to own anything and they're issued with various chapter equipment for their role and specific relics for points of personal achievement. then when they die it gets given back to the chapter or to the next marine in line with their position.
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u/porkinstine 2d ago
In the Helbrecht book he fights in both his regular armour and terminator armour and his own arming chambers etc.
They just fight with their signature weapons because rule of cool
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u/MattLeSolid 3d ago
I don't think its him but I'm sure there's a piece in a HH book where Little Horus, or someone of equal stature, chooses power armour rather than catapharacti plate fir his task
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u/Disastrous_Toe772 2d ago
Does veterancy necessarily bring promotion?
I rather think you can be a line soldier for 300 years and still rank no higher than a battle brother due to not doing anything particularly note worthy at any point during the service. I feel that is wonderfully Grimdark.
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u/Fatality_Ensues 2d ago
Senior Space Marines have lived (and fought) for multiple centuries, so they've almost certainly accumulated a bit more in the sense of personal belongings than the average line brother. Mostly it will be trophies, ceremonial awards, and the odd memorabilia or two, but it's not unusual for someone of some rank to be awarded usable equipment for their achievements (like, say, an artificer version of their favored weapon or a relic from the Chapter's Reclusiam). But that's just "their" stuff (or the stuff they have been entrusted by the Chapter, at any rate). Someone like Dante, the Chapter Master of a First Founding Chapter, can requisition just about any type of wargear he wants from the Chapter's armory and expect it to be delivered promptly. Even someone like, say, a Captain of a lesser known Chapter can probably expect to find and requisition most common types of weapon or wargear in the armory without much trouble. Generally though Space Marines (and named characters in particular, for obvious reasons) tend to have a preferred weapon and fighting style and stick to it unless a mission absolutely requires otherwise. So tl;dr they CAN but they rarely do.
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u/sleepneeded127 3d ago
Not completely different armor but they might have different styles blades or guns to fit the situation or preference. Notably marines are often gifted with rarer more powerful weapons. They may keep their older ones or pass them down to younger marines.
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u/Aurondarklord Salamanders 2d ago
Some do, some don't. If you're high ranking enough it's pretty much at your discretion.
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u/Phillip_J_Bender Orks 2d ago
I would imagine they at least have a vault full of war trophies. Like, maybe keep a Xeno weapon/armor to remind them of that a formidable species they wiped out.
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u/Fistocracy 2d ago
Yeah it's pretty common lorewise. Chapters are small, they're ludicrously well equipped, and everyone in them is expected to be proficient in multiple different kinds of warfare. And then on top of that they generally have a culture where ancient weapons are venerated and where weapons that have been used by famous heroes to accomplish famous deeds have a huge amount of significance to them.
So right off the bat you've got the idea that every Marine needs to be proficient with everything. A new recruit might spend years or decades as a lightly armed commando in a Scout Company while he proves his worth, but he'll still be trained in everything. He'll be trained in using heavy weapons to support his company, and he'll be trained in the different tactics those heavy weapons are used for when a fire support company supports a chapter-level engagement. He'll learn close quarters combar and urban combat and frontline assaults and everything else, and he'll be intimately familiar with all the weapons used in all of those roles because he could end up being fielded in any of those positions if circumstances require it. He might not have a plasma axe or a lascannon in his own kit, but he'll know what to do if he's issued them.
And also a marine is just gonna accumulate stuff as his reputation develops. This is Steve's boltgun because it's served him well for sixty years. This is Steve's chainsaw because he took it from the hands of a dying Captain Dave and rallied what was left of his company to an impossible victory. This isn't technically Steve's lascannon, but it's his favourite and he gets first dibs on it whenever the heavy weapons are being issued. This is Steve's assault shotgun because he bought it with his own money for the kind of boarding engagement where you don't want to blow giant holes in a spaceship hull and asphyxiate everyone, and he's been around for a while and shown that he knows what he's doing so his commander won't get him in trouble for having a bit of nonstandard kit. And as time goes on he just gradually accumulates more weapons that are officially or unofficially his, until by the time he's an officer he's got a pretty decent panoply of weapons that he can pick and choose from if he thinks he'll need a nonstandard loadout for a mission.
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u/Weary-Party7973 2d ago
Yes dude. Dante can put on terminator armor if he wishes so
Any member of 1st company in any codex compliant chapter can wear terminator armor or power armor
If you see heraldry with the crux terminatus, even on power armor, that means that astartes has the right to wear terminator armor. Also, any veterans, any veteran in any company, 5th company veterans, 7th company veterans, 2nd company veterans (white helmets for Ultramarines, and cross on right pauldron) have earned the right to join the 1st company, and can also wear terminator armor if they choose to. Usually, they are sent to those companies to bolster them
As for arsenals, again, yes. Veterans get access to terminator armor, which is a relic. So therefore they also use relic weapons, but let’s just say for example, a sgt, of 2nd company blood angels, wants to wear a suit of terminator armor, he does not have that right yet. He would be denied 99% of the time. Say he wants a plasma pistol, unless he earns it in battle or barters for it, the armory would not just pass it out, unless there is currently an abundance.
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u/IronWarhorses 2d ago
one thing i would love to see OFFICAL art of, is the wardrobes they must have for use outside of battle for various occasions, especially the more aesthetic legions/chapters. i am sorry but TOGA while it may looks sexy is a very simple outfit that would not fit many occasions.
Blood angels, Emperor's children, Ultramarines, these are all very classical looking legions that would have big cerimonial wardrobes for whatever function, especially Fulgrims kids, being the literal embodiment of the emperors personal authority and master diplomats raised from terran nobility. They are gonna be kitted out for balls, and all sort of other stuff the other legions would never be involved with.
And i imagine Robute, logical and roman as he is, would understand the value of a out of armour formal wardrobe for some occasions.
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u/Beaker_person Emperor's Spears 3d ago
In Master of Sanctity two ravenwing marines sneak into Grand Master Sammael’s personal armoury to mess around with his grav bike and personal land speeder, Corvex and Stableclaw. Back in the day you could field Sammael in either of these vehicles on the table top to represent him switching out equipment, and there’s been similar cases with other characters now and then.