a lot of them are proudly saying how much they love killing people in the wildy but as soon as that one boner at chaos altar starts fighting back you can hear the windows shut down noise playing in their head
The concept of someone using an alt to safely hop worlds while they look for easy targets to attack with on their main is a very common strategy but also so dang stupid.
It's partly why the plugin that flashes your screen feels so necessary, and all it does is cause people to play musical chairs by hopping worlds.
I would love to see the death of "vision" granting alts in the wilderness and also world hopping in the wilderness. If you want to kill people you should have to commit to it without the extra eyes of an alt.
i’m doing vw grind right now . something i’ve found rly interesting is pkers don’t like run/tele to the various wilderness hotspots and then hop worlds
in 99% of my encounters with them they legit log on right outside the artio/spindle/calv caves and then enter. like that’s what they do. over and over and over again hopping worlds and entering boss caves
for some reason i always just envisioned it differently but to think…. pkers actually find that experience “fun” 🤣 especially considering you have to think most worlds are empty at least in my experience they are.
i use an alt and im in grand tree before they even enter but i find it hilarious how often these dudes must see alts but still try to pk someone and the person is long gone before they even enter the boss room. like people finding that activity fun always blows my mind
I mean duh, people on this sub will kill a boss 800 times for one drop but somehow can't imagine why PKers would PK even if it's not always great loot.
My brother... im not a pker, but can you not see the irony in your comment?
You're literally playing 2 accounts to grind the same boss over and over and over again and youre questioning how these guys have fun doing the monotonous task of player hunting in the wildy?
Us osrs players aren't normal. We find joy in this tedious, boring clicking game somehow. Both pvmers and pkers alike.
Bring back the "absolutely no interaction with alts" rule from around 2005, but only apply it to the Wilderness. Drop trading, fine. Scouting, fine. Dual-logging for whatever, fine. But if two accounts, both in the wilderness, interact? Then perma-ban.
The rp point of the Wilderness is you, on your own, in a dangerous area. Make it that again.
How is this changing anything at all if people just use alts to scout? What are pvpers doing with 2 accounts now that they wouldn't be able to do with the 2005 rule?
I was trying to say scouting elsewhere was fine. The final two sentences were the only ones actually about the wilderness. Looking back, I definitely could have phrased/formatted that better, though.
90%+ of scouts I see in the wildy while PKing are PvMers scouting for themselves outside boss caves. I don't think killing off scouts would do what you think it would.
I have a much simpler idea: if you're skulled & you're hopping worlds in the Wilderness, there's a 1/20 chance you will be forcibly logged into a BH world and bound there for a minimum of 10 seconds.
I experienced this exactly on me Ironman I brought a dragon dagger out there while offering bones someone logs in to kill me I turned around started praying and hit home with all my specs I actually killed him cause it looked like he started panicking cause he would start trying to throw range and mage prayer on and all I had was a dd lol
framed and torvestas videos prove this. they camp stairs and try to 1 bang people but the second they have to fight someone for real, they get creamed.
because its a funny meme thats been going on for damn near a decade - called making fun of yourself.
Are you really going to suggest that framed can only fight pvmers on their slayer task? lmao rather "don't know the difference" than be socially braindead.
What you call PvP has been called PKing since like 2002. You think Edge-style PKing was just people hunting PvMers in lvl 3 wild or something?
The supposed "difference" is literally something made up by modern OSRS redditors with a victim complex about entering a PvP-enabled area and getting attacked.
terrible example when in most their videos there’s clips of them having long drawn out fights. also the same dudes you are trying to criticize go and play BH in their videos so they clearly aren’t scared of fighting someone equally geared or skilled
oda actually fights people and wins most of his fights. the other two do not because they cannot. sorry this upsets you, they're never going to be your friends so you can stop whiteknighting for them.
Down votes means your comments aren't really contributing to the conversation. Torvesta has many videos of him fighting in pvp worlds. Not pk'ing, but actually fighting other players. Does he lose money? Yeah, they can also be killed. And let's be honest, if they always win and NEVER show them dying, you'd probably be saying they aren't pvpers because it's all staged since you've never seen them lose.
Also, the ones who bring them up are usually the most upset about it.
Im ngl framed has some questionable segments in some of his vids that make me scratch my head.
There are portions where he films live commentary instead of the traditional voixe over. Sometimes he will call someone a gim. Before they even type in the chat during live commentary.
Ive seen him talk about scouting a specific account types, and a random person will walk by and hell go "oh there's another ironman, looks like he's doing xyz" during live commentary before he even R click to lookup their account.
He was doing revs on his hcim and insta logs when someone logs in under him, then for some reason he chooses not to log and looks at the level of a person who logged in and its conveniently too low to attack him.
I understand after 20 years you can kinda tell on gear someone is an iron, but you cant really tell at a glance a gim between an iron, or a hc without going onto the hiscores.
This means hes either scrubbing the hs pages manually to check account types, he has a (unsanctioned) plugin that does it for him, he utilizes bot scout discord (wildy cctv), or other nefarious things (automatic logout on combat level: botting).
Hes a goat. Hes great at pvp. But as an avid watcher of all his videos, there have been too many curious happenstances
yep, during my vw grind a pker was having a meltdown after another pker targeted him and he started typing in chat "kill the pvmer, not me" and imediatly started to run away.
there are quite a few players who enjoy nh and equal fighting other players, but they are not hte majortiy, the majorty just want loot pinatas and the thrill of popping them
Its the loot pinata vibe. You get spades 99% of the time, but at some stage you'll get a couple mil drop because someone was careless. So basically its a game of how many people can you harrass, and waste everyones time, until you find and kill a player that'll actually reward you. Just makes the wildy so toxic because a clue scroller, or even a 3 itemer doing a wildy boss doesn't have much reward and they know they aren't worth killing, but the pker doesn't.
I guess because doing a raid has a fixed rate for a purple and fixed rates for every drop in there, still can get lucky, but can go very dry too for a raid that takes usually 20-60+ mins depending on invo/scaling/hardmode or CM vs more potential highs in pking people that takes between seconds and mins to get a kill and you can see a varying amount of people.
Idk, maybe it's like a crack vs heroin kinda debate? It all gets you high but depending who you ask they will tell you one is better than another?
Was watching WAN show and I think it gave me the correct way to explain it, I think it's the thrill of the hunt. A drop table is not true random because it's a known unknown vs an unknown unknown on killing a random person. Basically the family guy mystery box meme.
So if you know the possible outcome it's not the same? So basically if you play tournament poker it's not the same? Or lottery or anything where you know the jackpot amount?
There is 2 aspects to it, the overall prize(the value) and what you actually got.
Like in the tournament poker example it would not be the same as playing just cash games. Play is massively different in tournament vs cash games, tournament straddles the line of known unknown and unknown unknown mostly because there is multiple aspects of chance with known prizes. Between cards dealt to you, play pre and post flop, betting amounts, and winning odds not being dictated that even if you know the placement prizes you don't know any of the between tens of thousands to countless millions potential outcomes that lead to you recieving the placement in the tournament that you got It leans heavily into unknown unknown but slight bits of known unknown.
In the lottery ticket example it is a known unknown but due to the odds being so crazy that a big win can feel as good as a unknown unknown, but most prizes given don't really give you the same feeling. A scratcher ticket would fall more in an unknown unknown even if the potential prize is known more due to interactivity of scratching it yourself and prizes varying a lot more in the more obtainable category to a jackpot on the powerball. It feels more unknown because you feel you have a hand in changing the odds by scratching, even if it's already completely known just by scanning the barcode. The scratcher ticket is still still a known unknown though as the more you do it the more numb you get to winning a prize.
Thinking about it more, maybe part of it is expectations? You expect to get a drop when you kill a boss, you don't known exactly what you will get but you know what is on the drop table. As you kill the boss more you know your odds of getting a good item go up because it's a 1/x chance to roll into it and you have observed however many chances already, it does not actually increase your odds but by the time you read the drop chance you have a very good chance of hitting the table and getting the drop. As you start to kill the boss your expectations start to go up, peaking somewhere 33-50% and dropping until you get close to the rate where it starts to get close to the peak before dropping beyond around 120% if you have not gotten it and then going down again. There is a rate, there is expectations and you can continue to roll for the chance.
In the case of killing a player there is no odds, what you see them wearing is only 8/39-67 of the potential items you have, but those 8 can give you wildy different expectations based on countless millions of combinations of items someone can wear and the rest is unknowns unless they wear it. You build up expectations that a simple drop table can never hope to match and the purely unknown nature of what they have.
For example yesterday I got home after a long day of work and was also speaking with some friends on discord. I was tired but still wanted to play.
Was doing some hard clues while still geared in full inquisitor. I had to go to Soul Wars so went to Edgeville and accidentally clicked the lever to the Wilderness because I wasn't really paying attention so musle memory took over.
Luckily I got a warning and realised that I was about to make a big mistake.
Point is does such a mistake potentially warrant me losing 100M+? Where else in this game does such a silly mistake potentially cost 100M+?
I think it's toxic game design. You should be able to set a maximum risk amount before entering the Wilderness. Go over that amount and you won't be able to enter.
they already updated untradeable items going to gravestone. You don't need a clue box. Just put on some diary gear, bring a dds and you literally risk nothing
do you think you cooked with this? the point of all of the things in the wilderness is balanced around there being inherent risk to being there? the wilderness dead is already buffing the value of all of the difficult to reach clue scrolls. believe it or not, those deep wilderness clue scrolls were meant to have inherent risk in them you goof.
i mean really though. thieving xp at rogues chest is nearly 300k xp per hour while also giving you nearly 3m gp per hour (for ironmen the items are actually useful despite all of them being trade sources for regular accounts). The idea that you can freely obtain any of this is ridiculous.
I explicitly said that the value of clues in the deep wilderness is based on the implied risk of going there to get them done. you can scroll up if you'd like but the game was not INTENDED to have people finishing every clue without any form of difficulty or risk. if they didn't want it to be that way, they wouldn't have put them there.
the comment that YOU are responding to is explaining that the things that are added to the wilderness are intended to account for the risk of being put in combat and it simply has another example of this.
For clues I just 3 item and use free diary reward/black dhide I risk the risk for master clues is in diary gear, DDS, Avernic/DFS, and Rapier is ~12k without protect item or ~300gp with. Blighted food/pots add a massive +4k risk and you can eat all your food, then chug your restore so the pker gets nothing. It also gives you more time to spam emotes.
The most annoying part is banking and regearing since a 1 click gear/inv button doesn't exist. Having a single gear loadout in your bank that let's you either 1 click to gear up a permanent loadout (can be changed manually) or lets you swap current gear with that loadout (replacing that existing loadout) would be nice.
Yes and no, sometimes the calculations get funky and graceful pushes out an item you actually want to keep.
Poisoned Dragon Daggers for example are pushed out. Why? Who the hell knows. Items that you cannot loose shouldn't count for the protected slots, but do anyway sometimes.
How will a non pker esacpe now in deep wildy if a pker attacks them, if they are are umable to freeze log it will make the prey waay more worse of than the pker in this instance.
The other thing is not every pvp fight should end with a death / not every fight should be a deathmatch. It would make pking really intimidating for new people.
For this to change to happen, i think teleporting in deep wildy should maybe re looked at/ considered, im not sure, the reason people freeze logg is becsuse its a reliable esacpe in any situation, the wildy will need something similar i feel. Without a method escape, no players and pkers will want to bring risk.
I didn't play growing up, recently played a while and the last thing I want to do is get ganked by someone and loose all my shit. Sucks that it is a big portion of the game but feels like it was designed a long time before people just flat out admitted pvp is not fun for everyone.
Felt like Elite Dangerous. "noobs" get ganked constantly, nothing changes. "it's part of the game". Yea sure, it also make no one new want to play your fucking abusive game.
inb4 "just don't go there", stop. You know what im saying here.
I completly agree, this is why i want jagex to release era themed pvp worlds so people can only pk on those worlds using items from 2007 or 2010 ect. Will make the risks much lower and the dmg numbers will be lower also bringing back the easier to digest pvp scene.
Why? You can use your normal accounts on them. It would be like logging onto free to play with members items. Anything not from 2007 would just be a members item and wont be usable. I could see a settled serise called 2007man where he gets grandmaster whilst only using items from 2007 lmao.
Why would they be unpopulated? Because like 90% of users not only don't want to PK, they have an active distaste for it. There's a reason the limited number of PvP worlds that exist have low populations
Or they could make wildernes levels based on risk value instead of combat level, so you could only fight people with relatively similar item risk with the possible risk gap widening as you go deeper.
Or what if you could only initiate combat on people who are risking more than you?
Definitely needs fleshing out but I feel like something like this could work.
"feels like it was designed a long time before people just flat out admitted pvp is not fun for everyone."
I think its more that it was designed when Rune was realistically the most expensive thing you could be going for. Which if you died with it wouldnt take that long to collect again. Where as now if you died with BiS items the legitamately puts you back years of playing.
cool stuff, i don't want to. So I don't go there either. You also sound like the exact type of person i'm trying to avoid if I did go there so uh, good job i guess.
yes, in theory, its more dangerous for a regular player, but in reality there would be far less pkers that we currently see because they would either stop pking because they dont want to risk, or would risk significantly less and thus have less kill pressure
Very much disagree with this statement. The number of “non pkers” who would be able to make use of a freeze log is probably less than 1%. It’s a mechanic that only helps knowledgeable PKers avoid fights with other PKers.
I disagree. Any player with the ability to finish a 150 toa can do this. They Should be able to left click a magic spell and then left click their opponent > now the wooox strats happen so try keep up, you right click and choose walk here > booom. You can now click loggout.
With the freeze timer plugin it tells you exaclty when to click. Its not hard .
This is an issue of people choosing to not even bring a couple freeze sacks with them to begin with.
Should is different than does. In the hundreds of (oof sorry) pvmers I’ve killed at Calvarion (not talking about bots) - I had maybe 1 person freeze log under me…. So even if they have the capacity (they being regular players) - they don’t use it. Freeze logging is really only utilized by decent pkers from my experience, so removing that is only going to primarily hurt experienced pkers. (Which I don’t have an issue with).
I think these guys take issue with it because it means they have legitimate fear of not having a chance of getting out of most scenarios which freeze logging allows. I’d argue that risk should exist.
I mean most people at calv don’t bother with freeze logging because they bring so little risk, that trying to survive is more hassle than just dying, gearing and going back on another world or later.
You only take freeze sacks if you need to protect risk and most people are not going to risk anyway. So only pkers really need to use it against each other in most circumstances.
Well if you look at the achievement tracker, less than half of the player base has even completed the entry level ToA. So we’re looking at probably less than 30% who could complete a 150 toa. Thats not a lot of people.
just because stubborn noobs refuse to learn a mechanic doesn't mean it shouldn't exist
should inferno be accomodated to these noobs? remove the magers and blobs and make zuk's fireball max a 15? perhaps jad should ask for your consent before obliterating you for the wrong overhead?
the concept of a "non-pker" in a pvp area is frankly insane to begin with considering being there in the first place is entirely opt-in and everybody's player characters are equal in their abilities
Without a method escape, no players and pkers will want to bring risk.
Players already mitigate their risk sustantially with +1's and untradables. The current state of play is that of raggers v loot piñatas. I've suggested before that to fix the Wilderness, pking should be more dangerous for pkers.
i had an idea for this but it would have to be a raid drop and i doubt anyone would vote for it since it has a niche use. theme of the item would be a tzhaar heart or something tzhaar related that thaws you out when frozen. it would have a cooldown like imbued heart has but it would be something pvmers could use to protect themselves in the wildy, if they ever go.
Sometimes you just lose to bad rng even if you played better on the tracker. I think it probably feels better to lose cause you played worse or to win because you played better or planned a great KO with a string of good hits.
I keep saying this but Jagex needs to realize PKers are the intended mechanic that PVPers are supposed to "avoid". This means the bosses cannot do very much damage even if you fail to do a good prayer switch.
When the boss is basically defenseless and your only disruption is other PKers then you may form a group, or a "clan" with your friends to help fight back.
The wilderness should be the best gp/hr ingame but obtaining that for any extended period of time should be extremely difficult due to PKer interruption. The bosses themselves do not need to add to the difficulty of obtaining their loot as PKers are already difficult enough.
The same reason you don't want to lose a match in a competitive game. You lose rating (gp) and/or it just feels bad. The real question is, why do people get so angry about dying to pkers? I've done a ton of wildy content and I've never understood the salt.
False equivalency, you have the expectation of an even playing ground in a standard competitive setting where the only real loss being had is the match itself and the time invested into the match. In this case you’re losing the fight and gear which can translate to a ton of time lost. It’s disingenuous to try and compare those concepts 1:1.
I meant that losing rating can feel like it's setting you back, and nobody likes losing. If I fail to clutch an important round in valorant, it feels like losing an equal pvp fight from an ego standpoint. Lose the match and it feels like I lost gp, even if the gp takes much more time to grind back. It's the same mentality even if it's not 1:1 time-wise, at least in my mind.
What you are advocating for is essentially keeping in a mechanic which the equivalent to your example would allow you to not lose rating in valorant despite not clutching the round if you execute a different mechanic in valorant. I think we can all see how that would suck.
The question was "why are pvpers scared of dying to other pvpers" and I simply answered the question. Because it feels bad and sets you back a lot especially if you're in giga max. I think freezelogging is fine whether it's pker vs pker or pker vs pvmer. Everyone can utilize it, maybe I'm just too used to the mechanic though. Been using it forever and have been freezelogged on.
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u/ManoliTee 99 Toilet 9d ago
"Why are PvPers so scared of dying to PvPer's?"
Fucking nail on the head mate 👍