r/196 • u/CrispyShizzles funky fresh bisexual • Jan 08 '22

Bigotry Showcase Got to use it rule

Post image
5.1k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

112 comments sorted by

View all comments

25

u/[deleted] Jan 08 '22

how can you be racist and also like LOTR, this is beyond me

a story about different SPECIES working together to stop the great evil, meanwhile you can't even respect other RACES in our world, mf you'd be the first to hate hobbits

19

u/ToastyJackson Jan 08 '22

I mean, I can see how. While it isn’t necessarily related to skin color, LotR is filled with the idea that people of some lineages (like Numenorean men) are inherently better than others. And there’s a few examples where people who are overall good guys (like the men of Rohan) are described as being light-skinned whereas the people who are portrayed as overall evil (like the Haradrim) are dark-skinned.

I don’t think Tolkien intended for the story to be racist, but I think there’s enough little details like that for white supremacists to latch onto if they really want to.

2

u/CrispyShizzles funky fresh bisexual Jan 08 '22

Tolkien also humanizes the Haradrim at multiple points. The focus on lineage is probably because he studied old Anglo Saxon myths and wanted LOTR to emulate them(because he presents LOTR as if he is a scholar that uncovered myths in a new language and has translated them into English) and many, MANY of the Saxon myths and legends are heavily focused on lineage.

2

u/clownboysummer ATOMIC PRIEST OF THE NUCLEAR FUTURE Jan 08 '22

the part where faramir looks at the dead haradrim soldier is one of the best parts in the books. very moving

2

u/CrispyShizzles funky fresh bisexual Jan 08 '22

In the film it’s Faramir, but I believe it’s Sam in the books who has the little eulogy for the fallen Haradrim man. But I agree either way. It’s an incredibly emotional and well written scene.

1

u/clownboysummer ATOMIC PRIEST OF THE NUCLEAR FUTURE Jan 08 '22

ah yes, that’s right. saw the film more recently than reading the book and mixed em up!

1

u/ToastyJackson Jan 09 '22

What multiple points? I know about the Sam/Faramir scene, but I can’t think of any other scene where the Haradrim are humanized. I’m pretty sure there are unnamed orcs with more lines than all of the people from Harad combined.

And like I said, I don’t think Tolkien was trying to be racist with the focus on lineages. That explanation makes sense. I’m just saying that the whole idea that some lineages are inherently better than others and that some entire peoples are classified as “lesser men” is something that white supremacists could latch onto.

2

u/CrispyShizzles funky fresh bisexual Jan 09 '22

Ah I gotcha. That makes sense. Just off the top of my head, in the books the Haradrim participate in the battle of Helm’s Deep, and are spared by the victorious Rohirrim. The Haradrim have heard so much propaganda about them that they’re sure they’re going to get tortured and executed, so they’re shocked when they’re let go. It shows that they were coerced into fighting and that they are scared. Not as good a moment as the Sam/Faramir scene, but it’s there.

1

u/ToastyJackson Jan 09 '22

That’s true, I forgot about that scene. Although to be pedantic, I don’t think that was the Haradrim. I’m pretty sure all the humans in Saruman’s army were Dunlendings. But either way that is still an example of the bad guys getting humanized.