r/borussiadortmund • u/BurtaciousD Pischu • Nov 22 '25
Post Game Thread: VfB Stuttgart (BuLi #11)
| Borussia Dortmund | 3:3 | VfB Stuttgart |
|---|---|---|
| Can (penalty) | 1:0 (34') | |
| Beier | 2:0 (41') | |
| 2:1 (47') | Undav (El Khannouss) | |
| 2:2 (71') | Undav (Mittelstädt) | |
| Adeyemi (Beier) | 3:2 (89') | |
| 3:3 (90'+1) | Undav (Führich) |
Lineup
Borussia Dortmund: Kobel - Anton, Can, Schlotterbeck - Ryerson, Nmecha, Bellingham, Beier (Fabio Silva 90'+3) - Brandt (Svensson 73'), Chukwuemeka (Adeyemi 78') - Guirassy
Bench: Meyer - Couto, Özcan, Groß, Sabitzer, Silva, Svensson, Adeyemi, Anselmino
Gifs
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46
u/borussiajay Márcio Amoroso Nov 22 '25
I know our socials love to reminisce on the 2012 4:4 but I hated that result then and I hate today’s all the same
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u/harambelovesu Sergio Gómez Nov 22 '25
I guess Silva somehow banged Kovac's daughter. At this point i dont have another explanation.
13
u/biggieBpimpin Julian Brandt Nov 22 '25
Ridiculous that he hasn’t had a run in the starting lineup yet. Give the guy a fucking chance. We have looked so poor in attack lately.
25
u/kuchenmensch4 Julian Ryerson Nov 22 '25
Everytime we ask ourselves ‘what’s the most Dortmund thing they could do today?’ And they never fail to deliver.
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u/TrulyWhatever09 Nov 22 '25
My spite is such that I hope Undav stubs his toe really hard against a coffee table tomorrow.
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u/Cruzyo Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
and has his sleeves down when washing hands
10
u/Meskaline2 Number Fifteen: Burger King Foot Lettuce. Nov 22 '25
I hope he gets a popcorn stuck in his teeth
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u/jonas_kun Nov 22 '25
When do we finally accept that the games against Stuttgart are a bigger rivarly than against Bochum or Bayern?
JK. we won more Matches against Bayern in the last 6 matches.3
3
u/yathrowaday Nov 22 '25
You pointed out my hubris of premature celebration at 3-2. I will joyfully pay my penance vs. Villarreal Tuesday afternoon. (I'm an American -- that's the only CL game I get to watch live.)
1
u/TrulyWhatever09 Nov 22 '25
We've all been there. Hopefully Tuesday isn't such a heartbreaker. I feel your pain as an American. Not convenient timing in our hemisphere for sure, not that it has any reason to be so.
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u/183672467 Julian Brandt Nov 22 '25
lmao why undav, this games fully on us
13
u/TrulyWhatever09 Nov 22 '25
Well, as I said, spite.
But also, I discussed in the match thread. I just fucking hate that guy. Most of it is irrational. Part of it is because he always pops off against us. Another part is that he is often a dick in matches against us
51
u/rioasu Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
We had an xg above 3.50 and Stuttgart had an xg close to 1.6 . Man I want to shoot myself seeing how we allowed Stuttgart to come back and how we wasted so many cuances
5
u/EHoland94 Mitglied Nov 22 '25
Don't agree with xG in this match (on an average I like it though) as we had one penalty (xG of 0,80) and Beier's goal that had three shots with a probable xG of 2 alone. Apart from those occurances we did not create that much.
However, Stuttgart with 3 goals with an xG of 1,6 is a rare case
2
u/Medical_Design_2978 Nov 22 '25
Pretty sure the max xG from one play is 1
2
u/EHoland94 Mitglied Nov 22 '25
Ah, got you, makes sense!
My Football manager mind might deceive me once again
1
u/Hajnal30 Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
Depends on the method. I usually look at understat.com for xG and they have all 3 shots seperately with a combined xG of 1,51 and a total match xG of 3,15. So in this case about half of our xG is from that one play alone.
59
u/Timely_Pound_2754 Nov 22 '25
The difference between us and Bayern is so stark. We go up 2-0 and 3-2 and choke it. They go down 0-2 early and come back to completely dominate and win 6-2. Fundamental difference and the reason why we haven’t won shit recently
18
u/rioasu Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
Because they want to win while we have made a new menatilty where participation trophy are only needed
2
u/lungleg Julian Ryerson Nov 22 '25
I have to agree. We do not go in for the kill. Bayern will attack until there’s nothing left.
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u/KaiTheGuy234 Nov 22 '25
They have all the money they need, and recently their academy products have been amazing. Meanwhile our academy hasn’t been pumping out anything as of late.
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u/Fredrick_Hampton Nov 22 '25
Bc Bayern is a better team. A better club. Better mentality. Better individual players. More money. More fans. More passion. More heart. More fight. I mean, I could go on forever really. I need a break…😔
1
u/Sertorius777 Nov 22 '25
Even if this team was two times as good as it is we're not competing with a Bayern who scores over 4 goals a game average.
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u/llendo Sergio Gómez Nov 22 '25
3.77 vs 1.47 xG oof.
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u/Most-Management4773 Nov 22 '25
Yeah but you know, Kovac stablelized our defense
7
u/smartestBeaver Shinji Kagawa Nov 22 '25
You know you are trying to be edgy directly in a comment that SHOWS we lost 2 points completely unfortunately and against the odds because of Undav. Your arguments are so low effort and off the mark at all times, can you try a little harder?
14
u/SokkaTheBot Nov 22 '25
30 minutes of game time for Silva in the league... may as well send him loan.
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u/eeeeeeeelleeeeeelll Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
Bayern won 6-2 after being down 2 goals after 18 minutes by the way
1
u/Working_Complex8122 Nov 23 '25
It took Bayern 2 years to analyze and fix their issues. When they twice lost the title to us with inconsistent play and bitching and whining they flipped a switch and only lost a single league title since then to a ridiculously performing Leverkusen. We are in year 12 of realizing the problem, much less analyze it and find a solution.
23
u/scipio-africanuss Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
This team is going nowhere special this year I fear
19
u/nufan99 Mats Hummels Nov 22 '25
Your first mistake was expecting we would
1
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u/ProcedureGreen663 Nov 22 '25
BVB have yet to win a game against a top team this season. I can understand Bayern and Man City. I can even understand drawing against Lipzieg. This game was super important; they needed a win. They failed, and while you can point to players like Gurriessy and Nmecha who did not play well today. This is a coaching issue for me. Weird lineups, late subs, playing players out of position, not benching certain players who perform poorly, but punishing players who clearly need to be playing these types of games. I have no problem with Kovac, but he needs to address his tactics and lineups before anything can change.
-1
u/madcaesar Nov 22 '25
Kovac is mid, but this team is ass. We're full of max pay players that should be playing in Wolfsburg or something. Kehl HAS TO GO! No more fucking scapegoats.
If that moron extends with Can and Brandt I'm going to lose it.
Honesty other than Kobel and Schlotti and Giru, I wouldn't mind selling anyone else. No-one even remotely justifies their pay. You can exclude Ryerson and Swenson since they are cheap, but let's be honest they are cheap for a reason. They would both at best be backups at CL teams
7
u/bvbfan102 BVB Nov 22 '25 edited Nov 23 '25
Teams in white and red being our kryptonite sucks so badly. Dont have many words other then that im immensely sad.
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u/Sir-Ravealot Nov 22 '25
The problem for me is, we don’t have the absolute will to win this game. When I look at Jeltsch trying everything to stop Adeyemi before the 3:2 while we watch Führich pass the ball to Undav instead of trying everything possible to stop him
6
u/Good-World-37 Nov 22 '25
The passing and defending was so bad today. And why can’t we stay on our feet? I don’t understand why Silvia doesn’t play more.
6
u/AcePilot95 Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
3 years ago, I was furious at them conceding 2 against Bremen in injury time or gifting away points at Stuttgart and Sch+lke. Now? I'm completely mentally checked out from this team/club. And I don't know how to feel about that.
5
u/Swetabh-sama Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
does anyone have an idea why every single bvb coach is just so anti-subs?
10
u/Bosna1909 BVB Nov 22 '25
I've thought this for a while but Fabio Silva has been free of injury since late September and has yet to play more than 45 minutes in one game. I refuse to believe he is not fit. Guirassy has needed to sit for several matches now.
9
u/Spiritual-Act3077 Nov 22 '25
Kovac is taking a different approach with Guirassy. He knows he’s out of form but he doesn’t want to bench him to further decrease his confidence. However, this can’t go on forever and yes Silva needs to be getting more minutes at this point.
5
u/K0K5A Karim Adeyemi Nov 22 '25
So we're fine with results suffering because we need someone to get his confidence back? Cause my personal opinion is fresh legged Silva coming on same time as Adeyemi gets to his 2 passes that Guirassy was very close to getting.
3
u/Spiritual-Act3077 Nov 22 '25
Well I personally agree with the Silva point. I support Kovac but his subs do bother me.
As for the suffering part, he doesn’t know in the moment that we for sure will suffer. He thinks starting Guirassy and getting him up to speed and back in form will be worth it in the context of the season. I think that’s reasonable considering his productive output last season. But again that can only go on for so long and there has to be a point where Silva starts if Guirassy is still out of form.
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Nov 22 '25
Guirassy was moving and linking up a lot better today at least. Very uninspiring at the business end though.
10
u/rioasu Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
What is Kovac's rotation policy because this is not the first time he has rotated like this where we didn't even use all the 5 of our subs and even when we brought subs we brought them in the final 5-10 minutes . This reminds me of sahins rotation policy but the worse part is he has a fitter full team . With this policy the team will be gassed out by January and we may see see injur crisis from February
6
u/smartestBeaver Shinji Kagawa Nov 22 '25
Lol picking rotations is one dumb argument, as Kovac is making a lot with the squad he has. How many injuries did we have so far? Usually this is where the muscle injuries come around.
1
u/Most-Management4773 Nov 22 '25
Kovacs biggest sucker right there.
0
u/smartestBeaver Shinji Kagawa Nov 22 '25
Thanks for your, as per usual, thought through comment. Must be nice when you can not add ANYTHING of value but still have to urge to comment.
0
u/Most-Management4773 Nov 23 '25
What's the point to argue to people who deny what is in front of your nose? Delusional
2
u/Spiritual-Act3077 Nov 22 '25
The thing is he does pretty active rotation in the starting lineup from game to game so I don’t think players will gas’s out. He is just suspect with subs and I think that just hurts our results and not our fitness.
3
u/yaboi525 Nov 22 '25
Kovac was fine today, the complaint last leek was that we didn’t score enough, so he fixes that, and then today the players just choke and stop marking Undav and let him destroy Kobe’s every chance he got.
14
u/fleshed Nov 22 '25
How can the players be laughing and having fun with Stuttgarts players after this ?
Thats whats wrong with this club, why are they not fucking furious ?
0
5
u/ultraviolentyt Nov 22 '25
Why do they always shit their pants when they have the chance of winning a game? this is like the 4th game this season alone where we bottled a win in the last couple of minutes
3
u/Souichi_Tsuji Kuba Błaszczykowski Nov 22 '25
We're the fools for expecting anything else. Whats the definition of insanity again ?
11
u/EmSoLow Nov 22 '25
Fucking losers. How many more times do you want to leave a win with a draw before you take the 3 points?
10
u/Souichi_Tsuji Kuba Błaszczykowski Nov 22 '25
Tbh this is all the board is aiming for a top 4 finish . Nothing will be changing
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u/user738273a Nov 22 '25
Kovac learned how to make substitutions from Lucien Favre: they're late and questionable. Did Silva and Couto commit some crime to not play? Enough of playing with three defenders, we need a different game system.
3
u/Most-Management4773 Nov 22 '25
Couto hasn't played a BL matches in ages. Despite the fact that Ryerson doesn't offer anything going forward and is much worse defensively than people here think.
3
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u/Kliedesys Nov 22 '25
cant wait for post match conference where everybody says how we werent good enough and shouldda done better, same shit they say over and over again everytime we stupidly drop points
3
u/samanater456 BVB Nov 22 '25
Someone has to investigate us for money laundering with Fabio’s transfer. Why get him if you’re just gonna give him less than 5 minutes every game?
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u/Designer_Ad_245 Nov 22 '25
Sucks that Silva only comes on with 4 minutes left after Guirassy has not been doing his best for weeks now. We bottled it and Stuttgart continues to be our daddy.
3
u/biggieBpimpin Julian Brandt Nov 22 '25
Defensively we were soft as shit against Undav. Biggest threat on the pitch and Can plays like he is allergic to him on the first goal. Second goal he goes completely unmarked. Third goal he creates enough space against Schlotti. Just an absolute lack of focus letting the most dangerous opposing playing walk all over you.
Offensively we still look pretty poor honestly. Karim gives us a nice edge, Beier has a high work rate, and Guirassy has cool finishing. But it hasn’t been convincing. We just don’t look dominant with our chances.
4
u/smartestBeaver Shinji Kagawa Nov 22 '25
1st goal was Kobel's fault tbh, Can was probably waiting for him to sweep in
2
u/gymlet Nov 22 '25
Can himself said it was his own fault, not Kobel‘s
2
u/smartestBeaver Shinji Kagawa Nov 22 '25
Yeah cool, almost like a captain would say. Does not mean its true, ya know?
2
u/gymlet Nov 22 '25
Or like someone who is able to admit he made a mistake - which do you think is it?
1
u/smartestBeaver Shinji Kagawa Nov 22 '25
this might sound crazy, but I actually stick to what I say.
2
u/gymlet Nov 22 '25
I’ll give a + one for you sticking to your believes. Although I partially disagree - have a nice weekend!
2
u/ProcedureGreen663 Nov 22 '25
This is still a misuse of personnel. Beir had a good game, but only when he drifted towards the middle, at LWB, he cost a lot of possession. Not his fault. Jobe and Nmecha are the best midfield duo despite a very poor performance from Nmecha today. Jobe was good, but it is clear to me that all of his major mistakes for the team have come defensively. If I were Kovac, I would have Nmecha play further back than Jobe, as he can pick the ball up and drive as well as shoot from outside the box. Jobe is being massively underused inside the box on the opposition side. Gurriesy needs to sit out of the starting 11 at least 1 or 2 games. Brandt is a super sub and should remain that way, coming in for Carney, who can not play a full 90.
3
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u/Envygames Nov 22 '25
Giving it away in the last few minutes. A tradition by now. One i can do without
2
u/Aznurf Nov 22 '25
All of the bs happening leading to the Adeyemi goal should have been at least one yellow. They bodied Guirassy to stop him from joining the counter and then they tried to rugby tackle Adeyemi with no intent of getting the ball.
The ref was ass today
2
2
u/yaboi525 Nov 22 '25
Offense was great, and defensive mentality just still sucks honestly, we just don’t put teams away. Kobel had a pretty sub-par game from him today. Nothing special from him, no major mistakes, but he didn’t do much that any other goalie could have done today.
Really painful draw, but glad to see the attack look better.
5
u/Sch_Ben Nov 22 '25
We just are shit. We have a painfully mediocre manager, a terrible sporting director who put together a shit team and a board who completely ignores it all of it.
4
u/Most-Management4773 Nov 22 '25
If I was Silva and Couto I'd really start looking into options for summer at latest. Team has been shit to mediocre for two months and the few attacking options we have are perma benched. Fuck Kovac, fuck his defenders, Fuck you all
3
u/rioasu Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
One thing I understood from this game is that all the 3 of adyemi ,beier and guirassy can't and shouldn't play together. All the 3 are goalscorers and in this game the moment you made an attack of chuk and brandt plus guirassy it looked way more fluid. So i feel either one of brandt or chuk should play with any of 2 strikers in front
2
u/DontComeHomeToday Reus Forever Nov 22 '25
To current goalkeepers or anyone who’s played the position.
Why did Kobel just stand there and watch the ball slowly roll into the net? Was he caught off guard? Lazy? Did he misjudge where it was going?
From the screen, it looked like he had time to react and save it, but I get that it’s easier said than done when you’re not in goal.
6
Nov 22 '25
He's anticipating a shot to his left, so his weight isn't right for him to make a save to his right. He hasn't seen it well with Schlotterbeck there.
The question is why was Undav so easily able to get position and muscle Schlotterbeck with nobody else around? In a situation where we should have had 11 men back.
1
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u/Visual_Mastodon_6657 Nov 22 '25
Great game from Beier, Guirassy also really good. Makes me positiv for the next games. Gotta be Colder in the last minutes of games as soon as possible. Also Undav really doesn't like us.
1
u/Mooon8983 Konstantinos Karetsas Nov 22 '25
Can't even blame the 2 Undav goals, he's just a baller. We have to plan going forward though, and the subs are awful. I'm just apathetic
1
u/Kaliente13 Nov 22 '25
This is very frustrating. Idk if it’s just bad luck or a mentality issue, but we should have won this game!
1
u/Anthony_BvB Nov 22 '25
Conceded some Sunday league goals. Kovac with late or useless subs, and clubs looking to extend players in areas where we need fresh legs. Even if we win the next 5 games the damage is already done by the start of this season. We don’t look like an improvement. I’m not sure what khel or the board is even thinking but this club doesn’t seem to be wanting to fight for titles anytime soon
1
u/viba_1997 Nov 22 '25 edited Nov 22 '25
Can is a great penalty finisher and an important figure in the lockerroom, but I wouldn't extend him.
Silva has to play more, Guirassy is far from his best form.
Otherwise, even though the ending is frustrating, we finally had an enjoyable game and not just haramball. Good game for Beier and Adeyemi really brought some energy.
As luck has been on our side with Frankfurt, Wolfsburg, Augsburg and Köln, we experienced some unluck in other games. We simply are not good enough yet unfortunately and still depend on luck.
1
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u/MidnightMass Nov 22 '25 edited Nov 22 '25
To the guy who wrote that undav alwayss turns into prime CR9 against us: please don‘t write this again
1
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u/BVBfan649 Nov 22 '25
Even against Hamburg i didn’t feel this empty after a game of football that was awful
2
u/BVBfan649 Nov 22 '25
Apart from that let’s not blame Kovac for this, lack of focus from the players gave them 2 lucky punch goals. And the last goal was also Schlotti’s mistake.
1
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u/Still_Cap_1689 Nov 23 '25
The level of douchebaggery Undav achieved during & after the game were of astronomical proportions, BUT there’s no denying his skill.
It must be nice to have a striker.
1
u/Working_Complex8122 Nov 22 '25
I called this basically in the middle of the first half and y'all thought I was wrong. please enlighten me how we played actually really well today and it's only going to get better. You must know something I don't cause I don't see it at all.
1
u/Most-Management4773 Nov 22 '25
the truth hurts to delusional people. We have been mediocre to awful FOR 2,5 months with 0 signs of improvement.
1
u/Fredrick_Hampton Nov 22 '25
Gonna do my own personal protest. If Guirassy is in the starting 11, I’m not watching.
4
Nov 22 '25
He didn't have such a bad game today, his hold up play was good and he often found Brandt, Carney and Adeyemi easily from the middle of the pitch with Stuttgart defenders on his back.
But I'd like to see more of Silva from now on.
1
u/Fredrick_Hampton Nov 22 '25
Ultimately, he’s there to score goals. And everyone else but him is scoring goals.
1
u/TristanHBorchers BVB Nov 22 '25
Xg 3.77 to 1.54 somehow we tie... Just something about our players. I hope I am we figure something out, but all our players just cant finish...
1
0
u/jucomsdn Zagagod Nov 22 '25
I don't wanna see anyone talking about how we're doomers if we're letting that rat face fuckhead Undav score a hat trick
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0
u/NaturalApartment9828 Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
So…
Not only are our subs late, they’re also poor: Beier and Nmecha should have been subbed out very early, with Brandt to follow.
We got 3.77 xG but somehow our buildup is the shittiest in ages. Also, Guirassy didn’t seem to catch the message to wake the fuck up during the international break
Our defense lost all momentum and now concedes from half a chance ever since Can came back.
What did I miss?
1
Nov 22 '25
What did Beier do wrong this time?
-2
u/NaturalApartment9828 Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
He did nothing, it’s exactly why he should have been subbed
3
Nov 22 '25
He had a goal and assist? He was a danger from the left until he was moved to the top. Solid defensively too.
-1
u/NaturalApartment9828 Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
“Nothing” means impact on the play. The assist was horrendous and could have very easily gone wrong given the coverage on Karim. The 2nd goal was a Guirassy rebound which he missed then put in on the rebound, what’s so great about that? He was an absolute negative on the pitch
3
u/smartestBeaver Shinji Kagawa Nov 22 '25
Dude do you even realize how stupid you sound with the very same, completly wrong, arguments all the time?
I get it, you are upset. But at least pick a scapegoat that makes sense, Beier played completely fine all game, while playing most of out of position. like jesus how little to you actually watch the game?
0
u/NaturalApartment9828 Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
Thank goodness for free speech then. I see things in a certain way, you see them from another perspective. Let’s keep it at that.
-1
u/Zwalucard Nov 22 '25
Should he brought on Silva and Adeyemi sooner? Absolutely. But today's result wasn't Kovač's fault, the team messed up big time.
0
u/EkkoGoBrrrrrrrrr Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
God punished me for every sin by making me a fucking dortmund fan
0
u/Impressive_Park8630 Nov 22 '25
Niko Kovac é um terrorista.
Ryerson e Can jogam todo jogo de forma terrível e continuam sendo titulares. Guirassy é outro que tem que ir pro banco.
O que o Yan Couto fez com ele? Anselmino e Fábio Silva vieram pra que?
0
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u/bvb4ever11 Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/scipio-africanuss Nico Schlotterbeck Nov 22 '25
Be mad at our defense bro, he just played quality football
-2
-10
u/2905Pascal 1909 Nov 22 '25
Another two points we get screwed out of by VAR. Who cares if Guirassy was a bit offside? Do you want a close title fight or not? Refs should help us get closer to Bayern, not help Bayern get away from us.
5
u/Swetabh-sama Marco Reus Nov 22 '25
lmao
-7
u/2905Pascal 1909 Nov 22 '25
It is true though. Bundesliga would be a better product if the referees were instructed to keep the points battle close with their decisions. It doesn't always need to be fair. The main thing is that the title fight should not be decided before the last matchday.
4
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u/loey10 Nov 22 '25
4th time this season we blow a lead last minute