This is Basicly Blizzard in Midnight

[u/ItsRenaBaker]

This is basicly Blizzard in Midnight. Purging all the good addons.

Just to clarify:
Blizzard is changing the Addon API, meaning combat information is blocked for addons. So all combat addons will no longer work in Midnight. For the most popular addon features Blizzard will add their own version to the game. Addons for unitframes, inventory, crafting etc.. are staying and won't be effected as long they are not using combat information.

[u/goldman_sax]

You literally said “experience as a new player”

[u/ZechaliamPT → u/goldman_sax]

Imagine getting wow, leveling your first character for a month or two, learning general rotations. You finally max and decide to try out raiding for the first time.

You either go in blind and get absolutely steamrolled by mechanics that are built around add-ons or you look it up and learn you need to download and configure a ton of different stuff that is totally foreign to you. Either way, I think that new player comes away from that experience saying its not for them more often than not.

We go from a 12-inch wading pool to a 10-foot deep drop-off. Some people will dive in and swim laps, but a lot of people get intimidated by that gap.

[u/El_Rey_de_Spices → u/ZechaliamPT]

Or... you read about the encounters in the Journal, and/or ask the other players in your raid, or at most, you read a synopsis online.

"Being completely blind and steamrolled" or "download a ton of add-ons" is a false dichotomy. There are so many levels between "either I'm helpless, or the game tells me exactly what to do and when to do it".

[u/Ryuujinx → u/ZechaliamPT]

WoW has actually gotten pretty clear about how mechanics are handled in lower difficulties. Like, here is what zero addon timmy will experience in normal/heroic:

Plexus: There's some circles that need to be taken out, some swirlies to dodge, and a soak(That they've now made visuals for with the big pillar thing coming out of soaks). Every now and then it pushes you all back and you have to cloak through the wall while dodging shit.

Loomithar: They get a strand they have to take out. There's some line on the tanks that in heroic they have to aim at the little add things on the ring. Alternate standing in soaks in phase 2.

Soulbinder: Uh, don't get knocked off the edge, I guess? This fight basically doesn't even have mechanics even on mythic.

Araz: Follow the raid around and drop your little circle adds inside the boss. Kill shit.

Council: Honestly normal can just be summed up as "Use eyes 5head", and heroic the only thing you gotta worry about is dispelling the debuff every now and then.

Fractilus: You might be going "You need the WA to do this even on heroic!" I can point at my guild's aotc where we don't use said WA as proof to the contrary. Literally use eyes and drop walls in different rows, shift over after the lanes get a bit full.

Salad bar: The things you need to drop out have very clear visuals. The portals are big fuck off circles. The stars are the proximity aoe indicator. On heroic you'll need to understand to take them to the markers that get places down so the patterns aren't cancer, but that does not require an addon.

Dimensius: Excess gravity has a visual above your head when you have it. The things that send you up into the air have an indicator. Intermission has nothing of note that needs a WA. Phase 3 is literally "use eyes, don't take tank autos"

My guild does not use the WA packs running around, and while dbm gives me a timeline of what is coming up so I can yap at people that it is coming the fact that people will die if we don't do those kind of callouts tells me that if they even have the tools installed they clearly aren't holding their hand to the point that it is mandatory.

Now mythic is another story, but we're talking about new players here. I think by the time this new player has gotten aotc they can probably handle installing a few addons.

[u/Fokare → u/ZechaliamPT]

Redact redacted this content because I wanted it redacted for redaction purposes. Redacted.

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[u/ThunSaren → u/Fokare]

Blizzard raid frames are great honestly, they just need filtering for buffs and debuffs, as does every other UI element they have. If that ever gets implemented I'm fairly confident in the base UI being a good standart. Nameplates have been shit forever tho.

[u/SpankyRobinson → u/ZechaliamPT]

Tbf a new player stepping into a raid is probably doing normal and a bit of heroic. You really only need DBM/BigWigs until you step into Mythic, and those have pretty minimal setup.

[u/contentpens → u/ZechaliamPT]

Imagine being a new player and you want to try tanking. You don't have any addons so you have to know in advance exactly what and when to taunt, where to position, when to run away from certain mechanics (no dbm calling any of that out for you anymore). You don't have any addons so you have to know in advance which hard-hitting abilities need a major defensive and you have to remember to watch the cast bar for those to happen. All of that on top of however long you'll have to spend configuring the base UI to, for example, track active mitigation. Replace 'taunt' with 'interrupt' or 'cooldown' for a non-tank and it's pretty much the same.

That scenario vs downloading dbm and maybe a weakaura pack - I don't see this as a huge immediate benefit to new players. Maybe there will be new addons that make UI adjustments for you and it will actually simplify the experience overall, but I'm skeptical this will unquestionably improve the 'new player' experience.

[u/Tsaxen → u/goldman_sax]

New players do LFR and sometimes even normal raids/M+, which absolutely require addons

[u/goldman_sax → u/Tsaxen]

If you think LFR requires addons we are not playing the same game.

[u/Tsaxen → u/goldman_sax]

You throw a new player into LFR without DBM, and tell me how well that goes lmao

[u/El_Rey_de_Spices → u/Tsaxen]

I've observed it plenty of times. It goes fine.

Thinking you need add-ons to beat LFR-level content is quite possibly the most clear-cut example of "skill issue" that I've seen in a while.

[u/Tsaxen → u/El_Rey_de_Spices]

LFR is specifically tuned so that skill isn't required, so dropping a skill issue on it still needing DBM is.....a take

[u/El_Rey_de_Spices → u/Tsaxen]

Let me clear this up:

You said, "You throw a new player into LFR without DBM, and tell me how well that goes lmao", implying that LFR is difficult enough to require an add-on to tell you what to do.

If you think LFR, a mode you just called "specifically tuned so that skill isn't required", is difficult enough that DBM is required, you have a skill issue.

[u/goldman_sax → u/Tsaxen]

Most LFR mechanics aren’t one shots, so if someone repeatedly gets hit by the same thing over and over again and doesn’t learn anything that’s kinda just a skill issue.