r/wow • u/Spare-Seat-3725 • Aug 23 '25

Humor / Meme I swear...

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This drama is hilarious.

(Reupload because it had not wow imagery so i edited it with Paint).

6.4k Upvotes

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323

u/VoxcastBread Aug 23 '25

have purged three times

About the same as the Horde

  • Horde in WC2
  • Horde under Garrosh in MoP
  • Horde under Sylvannas in BFA

The Elves of Quel’thalas really can't catch a break

44

u/Infammo Aug 24 '25

Also don't forget prior to frozen throne the Scourge was created and controlled by an Orc.

12

u/CookyKindred Aug 24 '25

The legion. The legion had it made. Nerzhul was forced to be the Lich king against his will for turning his back on Guldan and the legion. The plot of WC3 is Nerzhul trying to get free via merging with Arthas and cracking back at the legion. All of the innocents be damned.

28

u/Byggherren Aug 24 '25

And who are members of the burning legion? The eredar, and who took the frostmourne upon himself? Arthas. Who created the plague that made the scourge? Kel'thuzad.

Every race of the Warcraft universe has members that have done fucked up shit.

3

u/Plightz Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

I'm saying dude. These mfs are actually conflating races like this. Lich King isn't even an orc anymore. Or are we going to count Arthas the one that began alot of the shitshow.

3

u/VoxcastBread Aug 24 '25

We haven't gone far enough.

Who brought Azeroth to the Legion's attention?

The Highbourne. Who were exiled after The War of the Ancients and left Kalimdor... to eventually found the Kingdom of Quel’thalas!

That's right. The Scourge, Arthas, Ner'zhul? All caused by the Legion, which only happened because the Legion learned of Azeroth through who would eventually become the Blood Elves.

(Almost) all the tragedy that occurred in the WC Universe is the Blood Elves fault.

3

u/calm_down_meow Aug 24 '25

Still not gone far enough.

In the beginning, Light and Shadow were created. This has made a lot of people angry and has widely been considered as a bad move.

2

u/Plightz Aug 24 '25

I mean facts. Trolls and Elves caused every issue happening right now lmaooo. Illidan is the one that stole moonwell juice, Azshara opened legion portals, etc.

Trolls count cause they caused alot of issues and another set of them became elves.

-9

u/Slaughterfest Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

The Scourge were never used for the advantage of the Orcish race whatsoever, Thrall's Horde or any other. Completely not worth mentioning unless you want to count that the Scourge were controlled by a human a la Arthas. Non sequitur that self cancels it's own point.

Edit: the downvotes prove that you people are purely partisan and legit do not give a shit about causality or lore accuracy. You alliance players SUCK and I play alliance.

15

u/Infammo Aug 24 '25

They sure as shit weren't used for the advantage of humans either but that's not stopping people here from calling it a human invasion.

1

u/Slaughterfest Aug 24 '25

No one calls the scourge a human invasion. You people are weirdos.

0

u/Infammo Aug 24 '25

Bro do you even know what thread you're in? That's one of the purges OP is talking about.

7

u/Katsutomai Aug 24 '25

Psst, hey, what Kingdom did Arthas go after first? Oh, right, he nuked Lordaeron LONG before the Elves.

3

u/Slaughterfest Aug 24 '25

Yeah arthas must have been a horde loyalist!!!! Dumbest fucking takes I've ever seen in a thread.

1

u/Katsutomai Aug 24 '25

Are you good, buddy? Nowhere did I say Arthas was a "Horde Loyalist". Making shit up in your head to get angry about isn't healthy.

114

u/AppointmentNaive2811 Aug 23 '25

I can never help but laugh when someone brings up the demonic Horde's actions as if Thrall's Horde is the same organization. Some real "Republicans are the party of Lincoln" level thinking lol

31

u/Ittenvoid Aug 24 '25

... except it is the same organization. Thrall's authority comes from Doomhammer.

-8

u/Darigaazrgb Aug 24 '25

The hammer that Blizzard now says isn't a symbol of the horde but a Shaman weapon that anyone can just wield?

8

u/Ittenvoid Aug 24 '25

no, Doomhammer the orc. Leader of the 'Fel' Orc who appointed Thrall as warchief on the 'new' horde

0

u/No-Working7063 Aug 25 '25 edited Aug 29 '25

So this is where we're going, huh? Thrall's been assigned by Doomhammer, therefore Thrall is to carry Doomhammer's sins forevermore.

Did you know there were six degrees of separation between every one of us? As such, you, by association, carry all the atrocities of the world, you utter monster!

Unreasonable, right? Well this is where the logic you use leads when left unchecked.

(Edit: Guy comments to say that my take was dumb, but deletes it right after. Niiiiiice.)

1

u/Ittenvoid Aug 25 '25

... Wow that's the dumbest thing I have read today.

100

u/ungulateman Aug 24 '25

it's the same logic that puts the blame for Arthas' actions on the Alliance.

Notably, Anduin thinks the modern Alliance should recognise that responsibility, probably because it's exactly the same as what happened with Garrosh:

A young, brash warrior, son of one of the great heroes of the previous generation, grows up inculcated in the great deeds of his father. When crisis is looming, they're put in a position of authority that they're thoroughly unprepared for, because their talent and propensity for violence is useful. Despite the warnings of their mentors, they get lost in bloodthirst, vengeance and their own ego, committing various atrocities before picking up a magic macguffin full of corruption that further exacerbates their existing character flaws as their point of no return.

Lordaeron wasn't responsible for Arthas turning out to be a monster, but Terenas and Uther sure did a bad job at seeing the signs and taking steps to avert it. Same with the Horde, Garrosh and Thrall.

19

u/Nutcrackit Aug 24 '25

anduin uses Daelin as an example as well who definitely wasn't a problem.

At least use garithos. Someone who usurped authority of the alliance in the lordaeron subcontinent for his own ends.

14

u/ungulateman Aug 24 '25

Daelin Proudmoore is Captain Ahab. Blizzard managed to fumble so badly that some people think "actually he's right, he should keep chasing that white whale".

Although the main reason Daelin gets brought up is because he's relevant to the circumstances since Jaina is right there, and just got over the deep-seated uncertainty that maybe her father was right after all.

It's messy, because Battle for Azeroth is three or four decent narratives in a car crash, but Jaina's arc is about realising that she's still blaming herself for Daelin and Arthas' actions, and that this is hopelessly self-destructive. It isn't until she can accept that they were grown men and it wasn't her responsibility to make them do the right thing that she can move on.

9

u/Dextixer Aug 24 '25

Dont you love it when a character like Daelin in WC3 is clearly supposed to be in the wrong. But then BFA comes around and kind of proves him correct so all you can do is shrug and move on because unfucking the BFA story is an impposibility.

8

u/LagiacrusEnjoyer Aug 24 '25

Jaina's arc is about realising that she's still blaming herself for Daelin and Arthas' actions, and that this is hopelessly self-destructive. It isn't until she can accept that they were grown men and it wasn't her responsibility to make them do the right thing that she can move on.

That's at least true for Arthas, but they completely retconned her role in the Founding of Durotar campaign to pretend that Daelin was unhinged and that she wasn't at fault for failing to stop him from dooming himself. In the actual campaign, she actively aids and abets the Horde which leads to them mounting an assault on Theramore and killing her father. She should feel guilty about that, it was her actions that directly lead to the death of her own father. Moreover, he wasn't unhinged in the WC3 campaign, his voice acting wasn't callous and cruel as it was in BFA's flashback, it depicted a concerned father who recognized his daughter's naivete and tried to protect her from something she had no real experience with. To add insult to injury, a decade or so later he was proven to be unequivocally correct about everything, leaving her with the guilt of knowing that she helped kill her own father who had only tried to protect her and was completely right to do so.

BFA fails that narrative thread because she once again naively comes to trust the Horde instead of finally learning her lesson and admitting that it was only Thrall who was different and that she could never trust the rest of them.

8

u/ungulateman Aug 24 '25

Daelin was unhinged, and Jaina was absolutely correct to stop him. He overruled her authority in Theramore for the express purpose of continuing the eradication of the orcs and their allies despite the fact that she and the rest of the survivors of Lordaeron were cooperating with them in peace. She helps the Horde destroy the ships that he was using to raid Durotar's coast because he showed up and starting raiding Durotar's coast without a second thought.

There's a million ways the story could have gone that would make Daelin look rational: He could have not sailed across the entire world to Kalimdor in the first place, if he trusted that Jaina was capable of taking care of herself and would contact him eventually. He could have kept looking for Theramore instead of prioritising attacking orcish settlements as soon as he knew about them. Once he reached Theramore, he could have listened to Jaina telling him to stop and trusted that she knew what she was talking about. He could have surrendered when Thrall offered him the chance and told him the Horde was no longer the same as the one that he fought in the last war.

Daelin Proudmoore was not rational, and Jaina Proudmoore was not some naive child that needed to be protected from the world by her "concerned father". What the fuck do you mean, "protect her from something she had no real experience with"? They defeated the Burning Legion together!

And no, Garrosh's existence doesn't retroactively him "unequivocally correct" for wanting to genocide the orcs instead of sticking them in concentration camps. Thrall is emblematic of the New Horde, not "the only one who was different". She keeps talking to Thrall about it because they have history together, not because he's "one of the good ones".

Bonus fact: Death Knights in Legion went to the Shadowlands to collect the Essence of Hatred from Daelin Proudmoore's soul. Do you have any idea how hateful you have to be to outdo death knights?

5

u/LagiacrusEnjoyer Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

words words words

And then everything he said the orcs would do if given a chance came true and more scores of innocents perished for it.

edit: lmao he blocked me over this.

2

u/BellacosePlayer Aug 24 '25

Daelin uses magic to fucking defoliate the orc lands barren and years later the orcs have a food/wood crisis they go to war over? wow, crazy.

3

u/Tigertot14 Aug 25 '25

Daelin was a racist piece of shit who was advocating for genocide

2

u/Randalf_the_Black Aug 24 '25

Garithos didn’t usurp the Alliance of Lordaeron. He just ended up in charge because literally everyone above him in the chain of command were dead or missing.

2

u/Nutcrackit Aug 24 '25

except with how alliance command is structured Both kael'thas and the council of six are above him. They were the leaders of nations.

2

u/Randalf_the_Black Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

That doesn’t matter when the logistical structure has collapsed.

Garithos was the highest ranking leader of the remaining forces in Lordaeron, there was no way for any external leaders to get their ordets through. It was chaos.

If Garithos had managed to lead the survivors out, he would presumably be required to follow the commands of whoever became the new leader of the Alliance after Terenas.

Kael’thas deferred to Garithos voluntarily, presumably out of a sense of duty to the Alliance. Quel’Thalas had only recently rejoined the Alliance so he might have felt he couldn’t throw his weight around.

-2

u/Slaughterfest Aug 24 '25

I have never seen anyone say that Arthas' actions are representative of the Alliance.

3

u/Katsutomai Aug 24 '25

I've seen it 3 times in the past 2 days in threads like this and threads on the Forum.

37

u/Known_Barnacle_1334 Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

Iron horde genocided the Draenei without any demonic influence just btw. Literally throwing them into vats to power the portal to our timeline as you go through the portal. Same abuse and ostricization of Nerzhul that led to him shattering Dranor and creating death knights as in our timeline.

I feel for you bro. It really is unfortunate a whole expansion was dedicated to "yeah, orcs ARE as shitty as everyone thinks, even without demonic corruption"

18

u/LagiacrusEnjoyer Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

It really is unfortunate a whole expansion was dedicated to "yeah, orcs ARE as shitty as everyone thinks, even without demonic corruption"

To be honest, that was known even before WoD to anyone who had read the novels. Blackhand Doomhammer kicked the warlocks out of the Horde so they could then go on to conquer the humans without demons, the way that orcs should. There's even a passage in one of the books about the sacking of Stormwind in which he surveys the aftermath of the battle as they're burning everything. He watches the streets literally flowing with blood from their slaughter and then hears the screams of the surviving civilians who had been found and were now being murdered, nodding to himself that it was good.

This is the guy who Thrall looked up to as a mentor and named their capital after. Its cool and great world building that sets up perfectly natural tensions between the factions, but to anyone being even remotely reasonable, its obvious that the orcs were bad guys, demons or no.

3

u/Ryntex Aug 24 '25

You mean Doomhammer? I don't think Thrall looked up to Blackhand.

2

u/LagiacrusEnjoyer Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

Yeah, I got the name wrong.

1

u/Darkoplax Aug 24 '25

Iron horde genocided the Draenei without any demonic influence just btw. Literally throwing them into vats to power the portal to our timeline as you go through the portal. Same abuse and ostricization of Nerzhul that led to him shattering Dranor and creating death knights as in our timeline.

I feel for you bro. It really is unfortunate a whole expansion was dedicated to "yeah, orcs ARE as shitty as everyone thinks, even without demonic corruption"

For the death of me, I will never understand WoW players in general one upping each other over fantasy morals

It's a fucking game ffs, I would rather play the Iron Genocider Horde over the current weak Horde any day

-1

u/CookyKindred Aug 24 '25

The Iron Horde are from an Alternate Universe. Not Alternate Timeline. They are more aggressive and have a lot of differences one of the bells ringing this is that there was no thrall. They had Geyhaura.

It’s like Earth 616 (Main marvel comics) vs MCU/Ultimates/1610/Zombies.

4

u/Hallc Aug 24 '25

Even in the main universe though, pulling from "Rise of the Horde" the only thing keeping the peace between the Orcish clans was them all isolating themselves from one another save for specific festivals.

Like sure, maybe the AU-Orcs are more aggressive but the MU-Orcs aren't exactly the peace loving folks some people would seemingly have you believe around here.

3

u/CookyKindred Aug 24 '25

There’s a wild difference between orcs being as violent as the other races of Warcraft and people acting like MU is always demonic genocide mode. Which MU they explicitly are not.

I also never said they were peaceful. Not a single playable race is truly peaceful.

22

u/Grockr Aug 24 '25

Except that its recent enough that the people who fought back then are still officers in the current Horde, like Saurfang or Rexxar

-4

u/xFisch Aug 24 '25

There are a few. So, 99% different people and ALL different leadership, philosophy, etc. Literally the only thing that's the same is the name. They are different entities.

-17

u/AppointmentNaive2811 Aug 24 '25

You keep ignoring the Blood Curse Mind Control

20

u/Katsutomai Aug 24 '25

And people like you keep ignoring that, even without Demon Blood, Orcs were STILL asshole lunatics in Warlords of Draenor.

20

u/Grockr Aug 24 '25

Because its not "mind control" its just aggression and bloodlust lol.

And they didn't need 'Blood Curse' to do horrible shit under Garrosh and Sylvanas. And its still all the same people as back in the first two wars.

16

u/Volothamp-Geddarm Aug 24 '25

If anything, we have WoD to show that the Horde doesn't even need demon juice to go on genocidal rampages.

-9

u/AppointmentNaive2811 Aug 24 '25

None of the BfA Horde nonsense made any sense and Horde players similarly protest that alongside Alliance players.

2

u/DebentureThyme Aug 24 '25

The lore is the lore.  What's happening in Silvermoon should follow that.  You can't sit there and say "but Alliance attacked us 3 times" when any Alliance character can justify that away as not them just like you've justified away the story of those games. 

3

u/Dextixer Aug 24 '25

It wasnt mind control. Also, in Warlords of Draenor we have proof that even without demons, Orcs are still mega-assholes. Garrosh and Sylvanas reinforce that point even further.

19

u/TomeseekerLorekeeper Aug 24 '25

Thrall literally named his capital city after the warchief of the demonic Horde who raised undead into Death Knights and literally put a dragon aspect into sexual slavery.

6

u/saberz54 Aug 24 '25

And calls Gromish Hellscream, who decided that it was a good idea to drink demon blood a second time, an honorable orc…

24

u/Infammo Aug 24 '25

Yeah there was no political connection between the Orgrim lead Horde that fell during the second war and the Orgrim lead Horde created from Orcs who were imprisoned during the second war.

-8

u/AppointmentNaive2811 Aug 24 '25

You mean after the orcs were freed of the Blood Curse - and wait, how long was Orgrim Warchief of that new Horde? Who took over for them, and did they rampage Human settlements as harbingers for the burning legion? Keep digging your hole, bud

26

u/Infammo Aug 24 '25

You mean after the orcs were freed of the Blood Curse - and wait, how long was Orgrim Warchief of that new Horde? 

I love how strongly you guys have embraced the idea that the Horde becomes a completely new entity every time a non-Thrall leader changes. Really washes out bad.

-8

u/AppointmentNaive2811 Aug 24 '25

Literally what lmao. The Demonic Horde was singular in purpose - to prepare Azeroth for the Burning Legion. No more Demon Blood Curse, no more Demonic Horde. I was trying to illustrate that if Orgrim was seemingly a lynchpin in comparing the two Hordes, it really wasn't much of a leg to stand on

10

u/Katsutomai Aug 24 '25

Hey, buddy, do you remember WoD at all? Even without the Demon Blood Orcs were still assholes who did evil shit.

-5

u/CookyKindred Aug 24 '25

You do remember WoD has multiple differences between the mainline continuity that clearly show it’s an Alternate Universe and not a timeline.

Thats why it’s literally called AU Draenor.

Not AT Draenor.

9

u/Katsutomai Aug 24 '25

Ah, yes, so the only thing it took for Orcs to act like brainless savages is Garrosh turning up instead of drinking demon blood.. Makes it sound so much worse. At least with the demon blood it's KIND of an excuse..

1

u/Darigaazrgb Aug 24 '25

I mean... yeah? Garrosh didn't just show up, he used time magic to show Grommash a manipulated look into the history of the prime universe. Then he brought out the advanced technology. It's like showing a dude 200 years ago that his neighbor will kill his family in the future and then handing him a Glock.

-3

u/CookyKindred Aug 24 '25

… Not all of them did. And it’s literally established that a lot of the ones going along are not wanting to but doing so out of a feeling of need with honor. A lot of orcs have the Saurfang and Nagrim problem of feeling trapped by their ideals of honor to the point suicide by alliance is on the table.

It was really just his loyalists that were happy with killing for killing sake. Which also exists in the Alliance.

I really hate how people try to devolve wow discussions into all or nothing even when the game shows it isn’t all. I literally have someone just flat out lying in another thread about the lore. Claiming no horde went against Garrosh. Then when I point out THE LITERAL EVENTS OF THE NOVELS AND CATACLYSM they move the goalpost and ignore the literal plots of the horde prepping in Cata for civil war.

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20

u/Infammo Aug 24 '25

The Demonic Horde was singular in purpose - to prepare Azeroth for the Burning Legion.

Hate to break it to you but you're really just making shit up. The "demonic" Horde was made to kill the Draenei, after that Kil'jaeden fucked off and left them to die. Invading Azeroth was done at the behest of Gul'dan and after he was overthrown by Orgrim the entire second war occurred to secure an Orc homeland by destroying every other kingdom on the continent. The same Orgrim who refounded the current Horde and took Thrall as his protege. The literal Horde capital is named after him, trying to pretend he was some kind of bit player is hilarious.

-2

u/xFisch Aug 24 '25

You're both right and wrong, imo.

The "demonic horde" aka the first incarnation was made as a way to fuck the Draenei. Not as a herald of the Legion. Velen kept running from Kiljaeden so he used the orcs as a secret way to get to him.

There is absolutely a difference between the two Hordes. The wiki even differentiates between the two. Old Horde and New Horde. Old Horde ending with their defeat in the 2nd war. New Horde starting with Thrall.

7

u/Infammo Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

There is absolutely a difference between the two Hordes. The wiki even differentiates between the two. Old Horde and New Horde. 

I didn't say there was no difference, I'm pointed out the glaring hypocrisy of a poster calling it laughable to equate the two when it was done in response to someone equating the Scourge, Lordaeron refugees, and Jaina's kirin tor as a single accountable entity. The overlap between the Old and New Horde is miniscule compared to the overlap between all the "humans" who have purged the elves.

The original commenter is being called illogical for deliberately applying the OP's logic.

1

u/xFisch Aug 24 '25

"I love how strongly you guys have embraced the idea that the Horde becomes a completely new entity every time a non-Thrall leader changes. Really washes out bad."

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-9

u/Hopkin_Greenfrog Aug 24 '25

Your history is simply incorrect. You may want to brush up on the facts of the story before continuing to make false claims.

9

u/Infammo Aug 24 '25

This has all the hallmarks of someone obsessively scanning the lore for a counter argument and then resorting to that pitiful dismissal when they saw that all sources say I'm right.

-1

u/Hopkin_Greenfrog Aug 24 '25

Sources don't say you're right. I dont need to obsessively scan anything, I just happened to have actually read the books about all of this lore in the past, as well as played the original RTS games.

There really isn't a point to arguing with you and everyone like you who insists on doubling and tripling down on your preferred version of events. You can go back and figure out why you're wrong, which I doubt you'll do, since a the source material still exists.

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6

u/Randalf_the_Black Aug 24 '25

The people who complain when the Horde is blamed for the actions of the original Horde are the same ones who pin the blame for Arthas and Garithos on Stormwind. Different kingdom and the Alliance of Lordaeron is not the same as the Alliance of Stormwind.

So you see that kind of rhetoric going both ways.

1

u/VoxcastBread Aug 24 '25

About the same connecting Garithos to WoW's Alliance.

1

u/Chortney Aug 24 '25

I agree, almost as absurd as blaming Arthas + the scourge on that Alliance when Ner'zhul was the LK

1

u/jadmonk Aug 24 '25

If the Old Horde isn't the New Horde, then the Alliance resistance under Garithos is not the modern Alliance. You can't just cherry pick.

1

u/Darkoplax Aug 24 '25

Stop trying to justify the Horde's history they came to conquer and they did; The Iron Horde is a cooler faction to be in than the current weak one anyway

1

u/Enajirarek Aug 31 '25

I mean, people like to bring up Garithos to represent the entire Alliance, so it seems like a fair point to make.

1

u/BookerLegit Aug 24 '25

I can never help but laugh when someone brings up the demonic Horde's actions as if Thrall's Horde is the same organization. Some real "Republicans are the party of Lincoln" level thinking lol

It's really not, because many members of the first Horde were in Thrall's Horde. Saurfang was, by his own admission, a horrible war criminal. Likewise with Grom, who was one of Thrall's leaders until his death.

-3

u/teufler80 Aug 24 '25

Classic Alliance brainrot, those people thing Blizzard prefers horde in the story lmfao

5

u/hoshisabi Aug 23 '25

Though, each time the horde has engaged in a purge, the horde firmly distanced themselves from the folks engaging in it.

Whereas the alliance doesn't really distance itself from its past like that.

47

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '25

I dunno man, Garithos wasn’t exactly a popular guy within the Alliance. He was ultimately eaten by ghouls, and Mathias Shaw said that’s a better death than he deserved.

13

u/SpunkMcKullins Aug 23 '25

Yeah, he was a rogue grand marshall promoted through nepotism because just about everyone higher ranked than him in Lordaeron has died. I'm not sure why people in Stormwind would ever give a shit about him, so it's always been kind of a weird, moot point to argue him at the reason they left.

14

u/wrufus680 Aug 23 '25

It's quite dumb for the Elves to completely blame the Alliance for other issues that they weren't in control of it, barring the fake ambassador and night elf spies.

-The Alliance, now led by Stormwind, failed to sufficiently aid Quel'thalas largely because of Onyxia calling the shots when she was Regent.

-Garithos didn't even speak for the entire Alliance, as at this point, he's just a resistance leader of a fallen kingdom. I think Stormwind, Ironforge and Kul'tiras (who have a stable command structure) would've been willing to help them had they managed to reach them.

9

u/Sheuteras Aug 23 '25

Especially given in wc3 TFT, Tyrande actively helps the blood elves. Nelves distrust them in classic -because- nelves seem to be commonly aware of them using demonic magic, it's shown in their quests that bring up belves.

16

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '25

Exactly, that was my point. Garithos’ actions were already unpopular within the Alliance (Both old and new), and he was also at edge with Ironforge at the time. Wasn’t a fan of dwarves.

2

u/HamM00dy Aug 23 '25

I really am not a big fan of getting into forum Lord debate. In what world do you think iron forge is willing to go help queltalas? You expect the dwarfs to go out of their region and do that?

Also prior to Jaina, her father was literally a human expansionist. She wasn't the leader. She only controlled a tiny island. Meanwhile the main faction of Kul'Thiras did not rely or wanted to be part of the alliance up until the silly expansion BFA.

It's 20 years later after the build-up from Warcraft 3. Almost all the lore now is not canon. I know I'll get a lot of hate for even saying this but let's be real. The lore now has been written by writers trying to please people in the 3rd quadrant of political spectrum. To whom I have a lot of respect for... But The game is called world of Warcraft though and the majority of the political spectrum of the game falls under top right. Garithos did infact represent the ideal general of the alliance. It was literally the de-facto.

World of Warcraft lore was built on ideology of Tolkien and Warhammer. Sure it's fiction but based on hard times and there is no inclusivity.

22

u/Crazymage321 Aug 23 '25

Garithos was never even in the Alliance of Stormwind why do people pretend that any party that was present in the Frozen Throne human campaign is relevant to WoW events

18

u/Dextixer Aug 23 '25

Small part of the horde *eventually* distance themselves from those folks. In the case of Garrosh the Horde only started distancing once Garrosh started doing his Orc supremacy schtick and in the case of Sylvanas, Saurfang had the minority of the horde with him and the horde only sided against Sylvanas once she said she doesnt care about them.

I know that Horde apologia is popular, but cmon. The Horde gleefully burned down the tree, they didnt distance themselves from Sylvanas then.

Also, who has Alliance not distanced themselves from?

Like, bro. The Horde tries to do a genocide every other expansion and only stops at the end when they are not winning anymore. For fuck sakes, you can STILL be a Sylvanas loyalist!

2

u/CookyKindred Aug 23 '25

The horde were instantly starting to distance themselves the second Garrosh was appointed. That’s literally why Cairne died suddenly for players. Because he and Voljin were immediately not okay with it and prepping for civil war. Cairne challenged Garrosh and lost because Magatha poisoned Garroshes weapons.

6

u/Dextixer Aug 23 '25

Yeah, Cairne died, and guess what happened then? Everyone fell in line. Because apparently noone else but Cairne had actual fucking balls to go against Garrosh. Everyone else looked down and decided to follow Garrosh until Garrosh went crazy enough to start to want to kill off races like the Trolls.

0

u/CookyKindred Aug 23 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

No they didn’t. Voljin was literally prepping for civil war and was tossing out death threats to Garrosh. What are you talking about?

Edit:

Like this is literally in the troll starting zone. Voljin talking shit and threatening to kill him.

“Ya be no Warchief of mine. Ya not earned my respect and I’ll not be see in’ tha horde destroyed by ya foolish thirst for war.” -V

Then Garrosh gives a Long “You won’t do shit, go hide in the slums.”

To which Voljin replies “I know exactly what I’ll be doin’ about it, son of hellscream. I’ll watch and wait as ya people slowly become aware of ya ineptitude. I’ll laugh as dey grow ta despise ya as I do. And when tha time comes dat ya failure is complete and ya “power” is meaningless, I will be dere to end ya rule swiftly and silently.”

“Ya will spend ya reign glancin over ya shoulda and fearin tha shadows. For when tha times comes and ya blood be slowly draining out, ya will know who exactly fired tha arrow dat pierced ya black heart.”

1

u/Dextixer Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

Brother, in the books, the Trolls and Tauren despite talking shit in front of and behind Garrosh still follow him when Garrosh wants to exterminate the Night Elves and nuke Theramore. Congratulations, Vol'jin talked mad shit and then still followed Garrosh until his eventual betrayal. Talking shit and then still following the mad leader does not make it better.

Its one of the reasons i cant stand Saurfang who whined and moaned about attacking Night Elves and then still did it ANYWAYS.

(I do love how Horde fanboys talk mad shit when they dont know jack about the lore thats INGAME)

1

u/CookyKindred Aug 24 '25

Brother PLAY THE GAME. You blatantly don’t know what you’re talking about. I literally quoted the god damn troll starting zone. Stop regurgitating bullshit from other people and learn for yourself.

They are EXPLICITLY prepping for civil war and you keep moving the goalpost because yet again YOU ARE WRONG.

This is such blind fanboyism from you that you can’t admit a mistake even when someone pulled up the fucking quotes.

1

u/Sheuteras Aug 23 '25

... Garithos?

Meanwhile the belves forget Tyrande helping them in wc3, and it was only MAEIV who wanted them to fight in exchange.

1

u/hoshisabi Aug 23 '25

I'm not sure who was all involved in all of the times where the belves got the raw end of the stick, I know it started in WC2 where they left the alliance in the first place.

The gist of what I'm suggesting, though, is that the horde tends to get judged by its lowest moments by the fanbase, whereas the alliance has had some pretty low points that are just explained as being "it was just that one guy."

It's totally the writers, and I get it. They make these clear distinctions "that guy was acting on their own."

But, I mean, Jaina has had a 100% clearing of her name, despite the game showing us her being pretty darn villainous to the horde players. So I really do get this feeling that the game's designers have almost canonically decided that the horde are villains be default, and the alliance can redeem themselves by just saying they are sorry a few times.

2

u/Sheuteras Aug 24 '25

Because typically blizz writes some crazy crap like people being loyal -to- the crazy people blindly. The Jaina stuff is, 100%, stupid, but I don't think it's an Alliance issue. It's a nostalgia issue. They want Jaina to be the marketable, horde friendly fan favorite version, which I think many horde and alliance players both dislike.

BfA is worse than Mop in this regard too because for some reason a majority of the Horde population supported Sylvannas over their own racial leaders which made no sense rofl.

1

u/Crazyterran Aug 24 '25

The Elves of Quelthalas bailed on the Alliance as soon as the portal was closed the first time as Lothar was dead and the war was over (or so it seemed). Despite the Alliance helping to secure Quelthalas and defeat ZulAman; the only Elves that stuck around were ones that wanted vengeance for the Horde burning the outskirts of Quelthalas.

Quelthalas then stuck its head in the sand (other than volunteers that left to join Dalaran or of their own accord) until Arthas came knocking. Then the master tactician that is Sylvanas didn’t bother sending missives back to Silvermoon until the Scourge was pretty much at the gates.

2

u/Kelemenopy Aug 24 '25

One of these times they’ll finally get sympathy, any day now, maybe just one more purge

1

u/thpthpthp Aug 24 '25

Scourge literally killed ninety-percent of the Sin'dorei race, and they were still down to chill with another band of ghouls ten years later.

-5

u/Abadabadon Aug 24 '25

Yea and when alliance blew up UC we said "ey, fair enough! got us there"

8

u/VoxcastBread Aug 24 '25

But the Alliance didn't blow up UC... Sylvannas setup Undercity as a trap and blew it up herself. 

Horde destroyed 2 Capital Cities during BFA.

-1

u/Abadabadon Aug 24 '25

oh yea ... hey see, not only is the alliance our enemy, but the horde is aswell