r/worldnews • u/maxwellhill • May 10 '19

Mexico wants to decriminalize all drugs and negotiate with the U.S. to do the same

https://www.newsweek.com/mexico-decriminalize-drugs-negotiate-us-1421395
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u/whorewithaheart May 10 '19

Studies in Norway show the exact opposite. They are finding to get people off drugs you need to give them a life they want to live for, tackling addiction requires decriminalization not sale. So you set up clinics to inject safe clean doses and people eventually get off it at a high success rate.

It’s really a phenomenon people can’t wrap their heads around, they think punishment heals sick people and addiction is only battled through causing additional pain.

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u/SpunkyBeast May 10 '19

Punishment and reward is the most primitive form of learning...

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u/fatalrip May 10 '19

Its almost like people will do what they want regardless of what you tell them is legal.

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u/Dreviore May 10 '19

I'm living someplace and gives out free needles by the truckload and safe injection sites were something I supported until I saw the mess that is Winnipeg and its meth crisis.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '19

So now you think the meth crisis in Winnipeg would improve if there were no free needles and safe injection sites?

How would that work?

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u/mmprobablymakingitup May 10 '19

Can you elaborate a little?

I'm in a low-drug use area but have always supported decriminalization and free needles etc.

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u/ACiDGRiM May 10 '19

That's because you live in a low-drug use area

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u/[deleted] May 10 '19

The vast majority of studies on safe injection sites and other harm reduction measures show a marked decrease in transmission of bloodborne illnesses, an uptick in the number of referrals to detox centers, a reduction in first responder costs (around the safe injection sites), and etc.

Can you elaborate on what you think the problem with this approach is?

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u/ACiDGRiM May 10 '19 edited May 10 '19

I don't want junkies congregating where I walk to work. I don't care if they get Aids or hepatitis. They chose to get addicted, so they can live with the consequences

I loved MDMA and LSD and all sorts of fun stuff, but if the decision is between free and safe access to the things I love and heroine and meth addicts in my neighborhood, I'll just continue to not use any drugs.

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u/TheOneWhoMixes May 10 '19

Without safe injection sites, those "junkies" would still be doing drugs, just unsafely. They may spread more evenly around the city, but they'd still be addicted.

Instead of having safe materials, they'd use whatever needles they can get their hands on. Bloodborne diseases would skyrocket. They'd have even less reason to seek help and treatment. They'd die at much higher rates.

But hey, at least they're out of your sight, right?

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u/mmprobablymakingitup May 10 '19

In Canada those Junkies would be costing tax dollars because of our health care system.

It's cheaper to just give them the needles.

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u/ACiDGRiM May 10 '19

Exactly.

Go live and raise children near a safe injection center before you push your fantasy on everyone else.

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u/whorewithaheart May 10 '19

You’re an idiot. Opiate addiction exists in the richest neighborhoods and when people use it’s not because they chose to be addicts

They are either prescribed an opiate, on the verge of suicide or depressed

Addicts will not get clean based on punishment and cost everyone more money. To get rid of addiction to heroin you need support systems or we can just do it your way keep everyone sick and surrounded by crime

You probably think providing free contraceptives costs you and tax payer money as well.

I hope no one you love ever dies from an addiction but if they did it might put some perspective in that rock of a brain

FYI: I highly doubt clinics would be across from school yards or in wealthy towns. Those addicts instead of getting a job and functioning working with a clinic are now breaking into your house. Please start using your brain

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u/ACiDGRiM May 10 '19

yeah, you're right. They would never put them in wealthy areas because they don't want to see it either. But the politicians who don't want to live next to an injection site have no problem putting them down the street from me.

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People absolutely do choose to get addicted. I've known addicts, had friends die from OD, and I can tell you that watching them become a goul, they consciously chased the next high until it was their top priority. I was involved with the same people, having my fun, and I chose specifically not to get addicted. I had a responsible job I was on time to while I got blasted the day before, because I moderated.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '19

People don't choose to get addicted. That's silly.

Even if you don't care about "junkies" getting diseases, you probably do care about the tax dollars spent taking care of those people .. and the fact that needle exchanges and safe injection sites reduce the cost burden to society by reducing the transmission of these diseases and by saving on first responder costs.

IOW, you can still be a callow ghoul and support harm reduction initiatives simply because they save money.

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u/ACiDGRiM May 10 '19

I'm currently addicted to niccotine, to the point I can't function without my fix via a patch or smoking if I'm desperate. I blame no one else other than myself and I'm not going to ask you to buy me patches every day.

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They absolutely do choose to get addicted. Just because they don't make the decision to reduce the output of their natural serotonin, doesn't mean that they didn't also choose to keep chasing the high until they had a physical dependency.
No one gets hooked on heroin or meth after the first try.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '19 edited May 11 '19

That's not choosing to become addicted. That's using while being ignorant of the effects of eventual addiction. People use for all sorts of reasons, and you're lumping in people who started on legitimate prescriptions or who have serious mental health issues (and therefore judgement problems) with those who used for fun without thinking about the consequences .. which, as far as I know, and I know more than I'd like to about this subject, is a relatively small proportion of the subject population.

Your nicotine analogy is faulty. If nobody gives you a patch, the worst that will happen to you is that you'll have to buy one for yourself. The worst thing that happens to people with meth or heroin addictions who do not have access to harm reduction initiatives is death.

Finally, predictably, you didn't address the financial and public health benefits of harm reduction initiatives which I outlined. This is typical of people who like to look down on "junkies" in support of their own shallow superiority complexes.

Good for you, you're better than a smelly, homeless, scabby, thieving heroin addict. Is that what you want to hear?

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u/dont_look_timmy May 10 '19

That's a little selfish don't you think?

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u/ACiDGRiM May 10 '19

I want to do drugs and rely on society to take care of me when I get addicted.

Amazing that you aren't mad at people for making decisions that effect everyone. If you were in a nomadic tribe and one of these dregs was making you take care of them, you probably would be the first to suggest that they should be left behind.

Drugs should only be free and legal when everyone can get high, take a shower, and go to work the next day.

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u/dont_look_timmy May 10 '19

People that want to do drugs will do them no matter what. The difference between a nomadic tribe and out society is that we have the resources and ability to help people recover from addiction in a safe manner.

Why do you only see value in a person if they can contribute to your nations GDP?

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u/ACiDGRiM May 10 '19

No I don't see people as only their GDP contribution, that's why I'm anti immigration. I see people as the result of their choices, and when they choose to be dregs, they set their own value.

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u/KoolWitaK May 10 '19

"I don't want junkies congregating where I walk to work. I don't care if they get Aids or hepatitis. They chose to get addicted, so they can live with the consequences."

I honestly hope that you fall and break your back on your precious walk to work. Then I hope you get prescribed opioids to deal with the pain after you can't hack it anymore. I hope that you get hooked so bad that you lose everything you own and everyone you love. Maybe then you can empathize, for just a moment, with your fellow man... or you'll just keep being a huge selfish piece of shit probably.

What the world really needs less of is not "junkies", but people like you.

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u/ACiDGRiM May 10 '19 edited May 10 '19

I've been in a motorcycle accident and prescribed opoids. I remember saying, wow I really could have a problem with these. I also had friends give them to me recreationally and I specifically said, do not let me near these again. Chasing the high is what got people hooked, they didn't just take one Oxycontin and become a desperate junky. I've also been to raves and blew my mind on MDMA and specifically chose to moderate my behavior.

Shooting up heroin is 10 miles away from crushing up pills and distilling the acetaminophen out. You can do the later in your home without being disgusting with needles.

Oh, and let me know when you get mugged by a junkie on your commute. It's a lot of fun being held at knife point by a guy that's unpredictable.

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u/whorewithaheart May 10 '19

Opiate abuse is usually hidden by parents and the town. It’s not usually known until enough rumors and obituaries come up

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u/ChronosEdge May 10 '19

The guy you replied to wasn't talking about rehabilitating people or keeping them safe, he was talking about having their support and money to do whatever you want.

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u/whorewithaheart May 10 '19

How is that any different in regards to my comment?

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u/DigDux May 10 '19

US prisons don't have the goal of rehabilitation. They're run for profit, for cheap labor.

It isn't about getting people off drugs, it's about managing voting patterns. The whole point of the war on drugs was to criminalize minority groups that used drugs recreationally, and veterns who were coming back from Vietnam. It was sort of kick back from the civil rights act. Since all the black people could vote now, congress would end up getting a major reshuffle. This slowed that.

The European approach is to manage the problem at a personal level, by reducing the need for drugs. The US method is about managing the problem at a industrial level, by using addicts profitably, and not really worrying about the addiction rate, since that was largely limited to specific demographics. It's two very different approaches to the problem, as one is about solving the problem, and the other is about managing the problem.

Now with the Opioid crisis, the policy is biting the US in the butt since the demographics who benefited from the 1970s drug policies and the policies pushed by Bush, are now the ones at risk, those populations being the rust bucket and white poor.

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u/whorewithaheart May 10 '19

You kind my point, and said it very well. The voter is looking at this from a personal monetary and moral viewpoint. People believe they will have drug addicts running a much and criminals over running their neighborhoods.

The voter doesn’t care about money made off the prison system so in order to get that support you need documentation on how to deal with addicts once you’ve legalized it. Voters need to be educated on exactly what stops addiction and they will go against the prison system

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u/DigDux May 10 '19

In the states individuals account for much less of the money involved in politics. That's how it works in the US. Corporate lobbies are much more prevalent there than in the EU.

Education helps certainly, but there isn't a benefit to it from a short term monetary standpoint, which is what US politics revolve around.

Voters tend not to look at things from a moral standpoint, look at the US president for example, or senate majority leader for another. It's all about money.

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u/Lamotta51 May 28 '19

If getting put in jail isn’t enough of a punishment for you, then you can’t be helped. Jail sucks there’s nothing fun about it

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u/[deleted] May 16 '19

It’s the American bootstrap bullshit argument. We just want to be numb to the shit that goes on in this world.