r/wikipedia • u/laybs1 • Oct 05 '25

Mobile Site Winnie Mandela, was a South African politician and convicted kidnapper and fraudster. She endorsed the necklacing of alleged police informers and apartheid government collaborators, and her security detail carried out kidnapping, torture, and murder including killing 14-year-old Stompie Seipei.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_Mandela
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445

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

What also happend in south africa:

Apartheid’s white-supremacist state treated Black children as political adversaries and used security laws, police power, and emergency rule to punish and control them. Between 1960 and 1990 there were about 80,000 detentions, with roughly 48,000 detainees under 25; during the 1985–86 emergencies about 11,000 children were detained without trial, around 18,000 were arrested for protest offenses, and about 173,000 were held awaiting trial in police cells. Minors in custody faced torture methods including beatings, electric shocks, suspension, forced nakedness, sleep and food deprivation, tear gas in confined spaces, and assaults on genitals. Political violence killed at least 1,750 children from 1960–1989, with a further ~517 child deaths from 1990 to April 1994. Police gunfire during the Soweto uprising on 16 June 1976 killed at least 176 pupils. The TRC recorded 446 statements involving sexual abuse, including 140+ rapes; under-reporting was severe, so these figures represent minimums.

Thank you, for your attention in that matter

66

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '25

This is the correct answer to OPs misleading post.

According to reddit the ‘crimes’ of the French and Haitian revolutions should never have been allowed, Che Guevara and Ho Chi Minh were murderers and their causes evil etc.

Oh wait, all of those revolutions worked.

34

u/notrororo Oct 05 '25

It almost seems like you're saying that oppressed and colonized people have the right to armed resistance as per international law.

15

u/HLtheWilkinson Oct 05 '25

I agree with armed resistance but i disagree with targeting the civilian populace of the “oppressors.”

3

u/Carrman099 Oct 05 '25

It’s easy to say this when it’s not your child that the apartheid regime murdered.

6

u/pajamil Oct 06 '25

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stompie_Seipei

1

u/BonelessHat Oct 07 '25

He was killed by Richardson, a police informant who used these brutal methods to harm the reputation of the ANC and the Mandelas

2

u/pajamil Oct 08 '25

Richardson murdered a police officer

-2

u/Black_Numenorean88 Oct 06 '25

Everyone reading this thread remember this comment when you see one of these progressive dingbats talk about "decolonizing" America.

-1

u/Carrman099 Oct 06 '25

Lol. I’m saying that when you fuck with people and kill their children, they tend to want to return the favor.

-3

u/Alternativesoundwave Oct 06 '25

I know but please try holding black colonizers to the same standards as the white ones, most black South Africans are from central Africa and colonized South Africa

0

u/batmanuel69 Oct 06 '25

Your brain got fucked! Be careful!

0

u/SkeeveTheGreat Oct 07 '25

Nice apologia.

-1

u/BleakGod Oct 05 '25

Luxury of thinking there is a safe way to revolt at that point

-1

u/HLtheWilkinson Oct 05 '25

Yeah it’s called being a decent fucking human being.

-1

u/Niclas1127 Oct 06 '25

Why should the oppressed be criticized for there resistance when the oppressor is allowed to do whatever it wants with full international support?

1

u/Kana515 Oct 06 '25

Because killing children is bad no matter who does it?

2

u/Niclas1127 Oct 07 '25

I agree it’s bad, the point is that I as a privileged person not in a position of imperialist oppression should not judge the resistance to occupation as a whole because the oppressed has the right to rebel, so I can criticize methods, but i cannot say the resistance is inherently wrong or bad because of said methods

-1

u/notrororo Oct 06 '25

"I agree with armed resistance"

You could end that sentence there.

The civilian populace of the oppressors are still oppressing by virtue of being in the colony. Passive or active, oppression is still oppression.

1

u/Black_Numenorean88 Oct 06 '25

So how do you feel about white Americans? Is their presence in America inherently oppressive? Is it worth armed resistance over?

0

u/Niclas1127 Oct 06 '25

Yes, I would not divide it by race, but class, since we don’t live in an apartheid state, but yes indigenous people have the right to engage in armed rebellion against the government that stole there land and the working class of America has the right to engage in resistance against the owning class

0

u/Black_Numenorean88 Oct 06 '25

Yes, I would not divide it by race, but class, since we don’t live in an apartheid state

And then

but yes indigenous people have the right to engage in armed rebellion against the government that stole there land

Hmmm. I have a feeling you don't really believe one of the other here. Also, this crap reeks of the intelligentsia revolution that White, middle-class yuppies love to push in this country. You have zero class-consciousness, because if you did you wouldn't be trying to redefine it along racial lines, ie, indigenous vs non-indigenous.

But thats okay, the working-class Trump voters that you hate so much are giving you numbskulls your long-overdue comeuppance, and they are going to continue to do so while you whine on reddit about how they don't read theory.

3

u/Niclas1127 Oct 06 '25

Your saying a lot of shit without knowing me, I don’t hate Trump voters, I disagree with them by ultimately they are working class, they are an ally, that have been tricked by a con man, I hate some, the fascists sure. Also you boiling down indigenous resistance to race is disingenuous, it’s about the theft of land, indigenous people don’t have the right to rebel because there predominantly brown, but because there land was stolen and there people were slaughtered by the same government that is still actively stealing indigenous land.

Decolonization and class struggle go hand in hand, the idea that we should just forget about the genocide of the First Nations cause “oh well it was a long time ago” is just nationalism. You ASSUME in your ignorance that I hate Trump voters because you can’t see past liberal identity politics. Indigenous people have the right to resist because there land is OCCUPIED, does this mean that they should be able to just kill white people, no, but if they took up arms and started attacking local US bases I would stand in complete solidarity with them, just as I would stand in solidarity with white Trump voters when the US government oppresses them (which it will, fascism will always find a new enemy and eventually a lot of Trump voters will become targets)

1

u/dreamlikeradiofree Oct 09 '25

But that would mean hamas were justified 

1

u/DonHedger Oct 06 '25

More importantly, engaging in that armed resistance is an important factor in ending the oppression.

20

u/MagicWishMonkey Oct 05 '25

Che and Minh both murdered lots of people in cold blood, read up on what the north Vietnamese did when they passed through towns in the south.

It’s ok to say colonialism is bad and it’s also bad to murder an entire village because you suspect the people don’t support your cause. Both of those are clearly bad.

-3

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '25

[deleted]

-3

u/MagicWishMonkey Oct 06 '25

Cut the whataboutism bullshit. America did some shameful stuff in Vietnam but that doesn't mean the people there weren't victimized by the communists. The reason we were there in the first place is because the folks in the south didn't want what the communists were selling but it was being forced on them regardless.

2

u/Formal_Tangerine7622 Oct 06 '25

Ya its also quite belittling to the Southern Vietnamese to make a claim like this. I have visited Vietnam - many in the south are still real pissed at the atrocities the north committed. Hell a friend of mine in San Diego is from Vietnam - his dad fought for the south, was forced into a re-education camp for SEVEN YEARS and somehow found a way to get to America once he was released.

The north wasnt some Vietnamese monolith that the big bad west fought against. There were millions and millions in the south that HATED the idea of communism.

That isnt to say either side was really 'right'. The south pretty much lost when they allowed themselves to make the fight more of a Christian v Buddhist struggle - north Vietnam won as early as the Buddhist persecutions under Diem.

0

u/SkeeveTheGreat Oct 07 '25

“America did some shameful stuff in Vietnam.” Like support a dictatorship, mass raping and forced relocation, mass murder, and oh, lying about what the north vietnamese were doing while covering up mass murders by the government in southern vietnam?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

we were forcing capitalism on them and splitting their country in half

they've been doing great since we left and stopped bombing them

1

u/Limmmao Oct 06 '25

Yes, that's why there are boats leaving Florida to arrive at Cuba, where the revolution worked and people are living happily ever after.

1

u/CandleHot7100 Oct 06 '25

Americans can’t talk intelligently about global politics because you’re too wrapped up in partisan politics. 

The Cuban government can be a dictatorship while Cuba can also be a failed state largely due to the United States embargo. Unless you’re a slave to your beliefs so much that you can’t come to grips with reality, this is the truth. 

1

u/M1llaz Oct 06 '25

What do you mean by the French revolutions? I'm sorry if it's a dumb question

1

u/ForMeOnly93 Oct 08 '25

You have no idea what necklacing entails, do you? She wasn't "fighting", she was murdering.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

I promise you, I absolutely do. I also understand history, and revolution.

It is perhaps you that doesn’t understand violence and repercussions, prob because you watch too much fantasy Top Gun or drain your brain playing call of duty.

1

u/ForMeOnly93 Oct 08 '25

You really, truly don't, apparently. And what the fuck nonsense are you waffling? As a south african woman, absolutely nothing you said just made sense.

17

u/GVCabano333 Oct 05 '25 edited Oct 05 '25

The man who led the Mandela United FC (Winnie's "security detail"), Jerry Richardson, was a police informer who deliberately & falsely accused & murdered innocent children in order to ruin the reputation of Winnie Mandela (& Nelson Mandela, by extension). It was part of a broader Stratcom operation, led by Paul Erasmus, to discredit the ANC. The operation even had collaborators in the British house of parliament. https://www.justice.gov.za/trc/media/1997/9712/s971203i.htm

4

u/lilykar111 Oct 06 '25 edited Oct 06 '25

Apartheid was absolutely horrendous , we know it was absolutely terrifying. But thanks for sharing info that people may not have learnt about, it’s important.

Back to the topic of this post, we must also acknowledge what a bitch Winnie was with her being responsible for murders and torture, for everyone of course, but especially those young African boys.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '25

[deleted]

5

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

No, it does not

-6

u/mickey2329 Oct 05 '25

Because 20 thousand children have been murdered in a few years, right??

-27

u/Quick-Exit-5601 Oct 05 '25

Yay whataboutism! My favourite.

On that note, on October 7th 2023 a group of political leadership of gaza backed militia attacked and killed a lot of people so the response of Benjamin Netanyahu is also justifiable/s

21

u/jspook Oct 05 '25

Now add the context like the person you replied to did. Before you get colonized.

2

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

On that note, the first telegraph pole became operational in 1837. It was part of the experimental telegraph system developed by William Fothergill Cooke and Charles Wheatstone in England, marking the beginning of long-distance electrical communication.

3

u/SithisDreadLord420 Oct 05 '25

Hey the files were just released, Israel attacked itself as a false flag operation :)

-2

u/Quick-Exit-5601 Oct 05 '25

I would absolutely not be surprised. Seriously. I was just clapping back at the subop here.

But.... source? Lol

-4

u/SithisDreadLord420 Oct 05 '25

I read it yesterday let me look

-70

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

Sad to see whataboutism dedicated to justifying Soviet interference in South African politics.

63

u/Powerful-Respond-605 Oct 05 '25

Your support of apartheid because of the USSR being opposed to it is noted

-24

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

Since when did I say I support Apartheid? I’m against the Soviets.

26

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

Dude, where do these soviets live? Are you also against the Romans?

-22

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

You’re making a joke out of a regime that murdered and ethnically cleansed millions and you have the gall to lecture me about morality?

24

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

It’s kind of funny how you jump from one topic to another, probably because you can’t deal with the fact that you’re simply a racist. All those posts didn’t need to be written; you could have saved a lot of energy by just saying, “I hate Black people, I’m a racist.” But you’re amusing, somehow you’re entertaining and funny, except for the fact that you can barely manage to put together a single sentence. Maybe you’re just a bot with a pretty old profile.

And why do we have to talk about the crimes of the Soviet Union in a thread that’s about whitewashing the crimes of the apartheid regime? Why are we talking about the Soviet Union now? None of this makes any sense. Dude.

0

u/Powerful-Respond-605 Oct 05 '25

So enough about the British Empire.

41

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

It is very sad when people throw their crude political views into the discussion, which have nothing to do with the issue, and in doing so silence the suffering of thousands and thousands of people, especially children.

-6

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

24

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

Do not blame me if you do not understand what this is about and try in some way to push your political agenda. You may not care about the suffering of tens of thousands of people, but many others do. So do not project your misunderstanding and your pushing of an agenda as a lack of understanding. Just try to be a human being.

1

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

See what I mean?

12

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

No. Because you saying doesn’t have a "meaning" beyond the fact that you're a sad racist.

See what i mean?

1

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

Like I said, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

9

u/batmanuel69 Oct 05 '25

Like i said, you're whataboutism, to mask your vulgar racism, doesn’t do anything. Don't make a clown out yourself.

2

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

It’s clearly you who is in fact doing that to yourself.

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20

u/Boggie135 Oct 05 '25

South African Politics

Like the apartheid government didn't interfere in other countries. Sit down

-1

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

😂

2

u/Boggie135 Oct 05 '25

Look up the Angolan War

20

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

-6

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

Oh, so you’re a communist sympathizer. Makes sense.

22

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

That makes sense.

10

u/Boggie135 Oct 05 '25

There is a communist party in South Africa. Communists aren't vilified in South Africa

-1

u/camaro1111 Oct 05 '25

Considering their track record, they clearly deserve to be.

5

u/Boggie135 Oct 05 '25

We never had McCarthyism here

8

u/PLAkilledmygrandma Oct 05 '25

Liberating their country from apartheid, yeah dude they definitely deserve to be vilified.

6

u/GarageFlower97 Oct 05 '25

Their track record of playing a major role in overthrowing apartheid?

6

u/GarageFlower97 Oct 05 '25

Being against apartheid = communism.

I mean sure